In-depth Guide to CKII - Feedback Thread

[Meneth]

A few comments:
There is a major exception to the rule of wanting to own every county in a duchy--namely, when the duchy is uncreated. Then you can safely give some counties to vassals without their desiring the duchy title.

True that, but two fully held duchies will usually fill one's demesne limit anyway, so there's seldom much point to holding anything beyond that.

Also, I think you should probably mention that sometimes certain provinces are so rich that they merit holding yourself, even if they are outside of your home duchies.

I'm not sure the money you'd get from holding say, Byzantium would be worth it over holding two full duchies, as the duke would desire the county.

In the section on keeping vassals weak, you recommend giving out counties with all the lower titles included. This may be good advice for keeping them happy, but it is sub-optimal for keeping them weak. If you want to keep the new count weak, keep the one or more of the richest holdings (usually cities) as your direct holding/vassal. The relations hit for each holding you keep in your demesne/as a direct vassal is -25. This means it is not usually a problem in the first generation, since he is +40 grateful for having been made a count.

It's not as if your vassals can do all that much with money anyway. A single city vassal will not let them hire mercenaries, only possibly upgrade a building once in a while, or more likely: fail to assassinate someone.
As such, I don't think it is worth it to have vassals in other noble's counties.

 

[Meneth]

True, I see your point of trading troops for cash. However, I can't see that paying off much in the long run; I'd rather be able to conquer a few more counties than get maybe a few hundred more gold a decade.

 

[Meneth]

Made some updates to the installment on levies. I was using 25 as the levy opinion floor rather than the actual floor of -25, which changes the numbers quite a bit.

 

[Meneth]

Fantastic stuff, it's been a great help.

Just printed out the latest segments. I have to be in church tonight well before the ceremony begins, so having something to read which begins; "Religion: Keeping the Church Strong" is a big plus!

Hopefully not a problem that it is written by an atheist

 

[Meneth]

Was wondering something about technology.

1- Are you 100% sure that building tech buildings outside the capital or in vassals´ holdings won´t increase tech rate? Only capital matters?

It'll increase tech growth in the county it is built. This will only affect other counties if it gets to a tech level before them. As your capital will be the center of your tech growth, it will almost always reach a tech level first, and would thus not gain any benefit from tech buildings in other counties. However, tech would spread faster to the rest of your demesne.

2- Suppose I get a county with 2 cathedrals and 2 towns, and move my capital there. If I build even the low tier tech buildings (monastic school, small university), I´d get 10 + 10 + 20 +20 = 60% faster technology growth rate right? Expensive, but it might be worth for a technology rush, isn´t it? If I´m a king income won´t be much of a problem anyway sometimes.

Could be worth it, yes, especially if you do it early in the campaign.

 

[Meneth]

Again, about the "most-bang-for-your-buck" theme.

Considering each upgrade to military buildings give pitiful extra troops (with few exceptions, like militia quartes > archery range), isn´t it worth to only build level 1 buildings and instead invest a lot on donjons, keeps etc? Specially because that will give you the largest amount of troops, and since more troops is great both for battles and sieges, I don´t see much reason to get large stables instead of small stables plus other 2 buildings. Sure, keeps take a lot of time to build but you can accelerate that a lot with the steward.

At a certain point a keep/wall will give you more per gold than a troop-building will, yes. I haven't bothered to actually calculate it, though

 

[Meneth]

Posted an installment on councilors.

I'd like to follow up on this if I could. In my current game as William in England, there are many small uncreated duchies (Oxford, Kent, and ugh, the one containing Winchester) near Middlesex. So I can personally take on any number of counties without regard for the rep hit when the two duchy limit is exceeded. The question is the best use of demesne points comparing baronies and counties when the duchy limitation isn't an issue. Any thoughts are appreciated.

You'll probably benefit a bit more from holding those counties in that case, yes, due to to the vassals you'd have.

 

[Meneth]

Posted an installment on the topic of breeding.

 

[Meneth]

Heh, just betrothed my 4 year old king to his 16 year old... half grandmother as she had awesome stats and Quick generic trait. Planning to use her as the tutor for him too, I guess I'll find out just how realistically they keep track of this Inbred stuff.

I'm not even sure I'm describing her and his association in the family the right way. My 4 year old king was a great-grandson of my previous king, while she was the daughter of the previous king with a different wife.

Half-cousin once removed is the most appropriate description I can think of. It conforms to the 4 degrees of separation rule (2 generations up, +1 due to different mother, 1 generation down), so you shouldn't get any problems unless you've done any further inbreeding.

 

[Meneth]

Hmm this latest entry didn't seem to go into as exhaustive a detail as normal. I assume that's because the files are locked? You left out all the non congenital traits as well as what effect (if any) parents base stats have on child as well as what effects guardians have. I was looking forward to something like, "Have your child personally tutored for the majority then switch to a guardian at the end to pick up excellent traits like Grey Eminence". I'm not sure if that's even possible. Do they pick that trait up when they come of age or is it determined earlier?

My next installment will probably be on the topic of education.
I was going to both in a single installment at first, but decided instead to go into somewhat higher detail for breeding and do education later.

 

[Meneth]

Updated the sections on marriage and breeding with the updated stats for quick, genius, slow, imbecile, and inbred.

 

[Meneth]

Assuming you are still interested in doing a print version, I need an Introduction please. Cheers

Not too big, maybe a third of A4, just something for me to play with tomorrow. Please post it here.

I don't have the time to do that right now, but I'll probably have time tomorrow.

 

[Meneth]

Nitpicking, but traits like Fair or Ugly don't give bonuses/maluses to the "opposite sex" - they apply to anyone who would be attracted to your character's gender. So a Ugly male gets negative reactions from straight women and gay men.

True, but couldn't find a good way to word that.

 

[Meneth]

Hi Meneth! I'm working on ways to update a printed file(?)(Java) automatically... so you can still update your forum page, yet the printed article will also update along with you... (??whether successful is yet to be found out...) But could you please add a BookMark to your separate Headings. Thanks.

I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[Meneth]

This forum doesn't have HTML enabled, though...

 

[Meneth]

What is the best way forward when you have built up your own holdings properly? That is, when you have castle villages in every castle, enough military buildings and a lot of cash at hand. To build up the economic buildings in your cities seems a good idea, but how much should you invest in the cities and how much will they build on their own? Is it better to found a new city quickly or is it better to first build up your existing citites?

If you're not at your normal demesne limit, build a barony or two.
If you are at your limit, it depends on if you want troops or money. If you want troops you should either upgrade temples in your own counties, or castles in other counties. If you want money you should upgrade cities in your own counties.
Constructing new vassal holdings seldom pays off.

 

[Meneth]

Thanks for the sound advice! What about kickstarting your vassal cities and temples? Will an initial investment improve their economy and thus increase their development rate, or is it just wasting your money?

It will, yes. I'd recommend using 'gifts' as your primary way of funding construction though, as then you get the added benefit of +20 relations. Don't give it to nobles though, as they're just as likely to use the money to assassinate someone.

 

[Meneth]

Posted an installment on the topic of education.

 

[Meneth]

Meneth if someone could help you do some number crunching, it might be good to create some tips on optimizing troop composition. I´m having a feeling that we still haven´t learned to use troop composition to its maximum effect.

For example, seeing troop stats, it´s obvious that the side that attacks usually has the advantage; archers and heavy infantry have a very decent advantage in attack, and since those are usually the most numerous troops, it´s begins to make sense that larger armies usually win, since players love to bait the AI into bad terrain. But even the terrain malus won´t offset the advantage those troop types have if the AI attacks. It´s specially a concern when the player usually is forced to defend, like in crusades where you invade and siege and can´t bait the AI.

So, probably if the player is going to agressively crusade, it´s better to focus a lot on pikemen buildings and mercenaries.

If anyone volunteers to do that, I'd include it

Someone should probably confirm this but Gregarious and Diligent supposedly increases the likelihood of your tutor culture flipping your child.

Yup, it does. Pretty sure I noted that in the installment on culture.

 

[Meneth]

Hey Meneth: I think a really good mod for CK2 would be your Guide ... edited and trimmed down, put into bullet points, and PUT INTO the game in a new Help Section.

So, the player, when faced with a difficult decision, could open Help, and peruse your advice before making a decision.

I wonder if this could be done?

I don't know if that'd be possible. I suspect one would have to mod the UI, which is an area I've never attempted to mod.