You can help with my suggestion about equipment then - while a-la Stellaris modular concept was found too complex, mentioned one got some actual interest from devs. But it never hurts to get some more posts in the thread.
In Defense of Alt-History
- Thread starter Pigzooka
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See this is what I said pre-WtT. You're just one step behind (nothing wrong with that).
Why? What are you basing this assumption on?
I've been playing about with things some more.
Looks like the best I can do, to cause an AI Germany invasion of Norway, is a thing that would load an OOB file, placing German divisions on Norwegian territory (they'll fight any Norwegian units that are in the relevant provinces when the command is given).
So, I could get the AI to do that. But, that's calling divisions into existence without having been trained. Which isn't quite ideal.
Could do the same with Denmark too, I guess.
Looks like the best I can do, to cause an AI Germany invasion of Norway, is a thing that would load an OOB file, placing German divisions on Norwegian territory (they'll fight any Norwegian units that are in the relevant provinces when the command is given).
So, I could get the AI to do that. But, that's calling divisions into existence without having been trained. Which isn't quite ideal.
Could do the same with Denmark too, I guess.
Play this out logically for me. People watch youtubers. We don't know how many distinct individuals, and we don't know how many of those people actually own or play the game. We also don't know why those who do own the game are watching. How does this logically connect to all those people, assuming there are a number of distinct individuals who own the game, preferring alternate history options? Many alternate history options are difficult, so they could be watching youtubers to learn how to play the game. Many people watch youtube as white noise for studying or sleeping. What makes you think that this actually points to alternate history being more popular than more historical or quasi-historical approaches? (note I'm differentiating between Northern Strategy Japan and Restoring Austria-Hungary here, the former is distinctly more plausible than the latter)
Pre WtT didn't give me many issues for non historical things on historical mode. For me the only issues I have happened post WtT and I assumed that they would be patched out. They decided not to patch them so I assumed they will be addressed in 1.6. By the time 1.6 is out that should be more than enough time to fix at least some of if not all these issues. If they aren't fixed well then someones got some explaining to do.
I agree with OP, but with another, paradoxical argument: having different alt history paths as potential paths is the only way to produce realism in the experience of ruling a country in these troubled times.
Why? Because Chamberlain, Poincaré, Roosevelt, Churchill, Staline etc. did not have a clue about how history would unfold. Clearly there was a feeling that something terrible was doomed to happen. But when? how? which allies, which enemies? every body was moving forward like blinded in the tunnel of what would become history. This uncertainty was a factor for how things went. The clearest example is Soviet lack of preparedness for the German blitzkrieg.
The unstability of the world scene was a major characteristic. The only way for us, players, to get a somwhat similar experience is to have the AI be unpredictable as nations were back then; and a multitude of alt-history paths which the AI may take delivers just that.
Why? Because Chamberlain, Poincaré, Roosevelt, Churchill, Staline etc. did not have a clue about how history would unfold. Clearly there was a feeling that something terrible was doomed to happen. But when? how? which allies, which enemies? every body was moving forward like blinded in the tunnel of what would become history. This uncertainty was a factor for how things went. The clearest example is Soviet lack of preparedness for the German blitzkrieg.
The unstability of the world scene was a major characteristic. The only way for us, players, to get a somwhat similar experience is to have the AI be unpredictable as nations were back then; and a multitude of alt-history paths which the AI may take delivers just that.
Which is why people like me need to make our voices heard. This threatens any hope of HOI ever reaching its full promise, which it sort of never did as AI Uk and US could never mount a proficient European landing.
I also forgot to mention that more people download alternative history scenarios on steam too, whilst there are still many fantastic historic mods (of which I enjoy): more people want alternative history because most people do not want to constantly play historical WW2 all the time - the game would lose it's replayability instantly.
I do agree however that historical focus could be improved for single player play, but Paradox is right - especially with the new British tech tree in the works - to increase alternative history.
It gives me more fun things to do with my product.
I believe most of these things were not functional in any of HOI games(Phoney might be exption). I dread playing HOI3 and seeing German army invade Norway, and then never manage to evacuate or push forward.
Sino-Japanese always ends very fast outside mods. The reason for it, is that AI japan can`t fight US in paralel.
Pacific war also never worked in HOI3, and I think in HOI2.
I understand your urge to demand that devs should "Just try harder!", but, why does everybody else have to wait for things that can be made right here&now, for the tiny chance Devs will be able to finally tackle the issues dragging for 3 games, with the tiny amount of resources, that alternative history is taking?
And how would you suggest one be implemented?
A mandatory "No invading France until X number of days after the fall of Warsaw?" national spirit? Yeah, that would be fun and sensible.
The historical reasons for the Phony War can't really be implemented in a game where you can bomb major cities on day 1 of the war, defeat Poland with fewer than the historical losses, and Germany knows that Britain is fully committed to the war the moment the war starts.
Hell, historically Hitler wanted to attack in October of 1939. So, it's not ridiculous for someone playing Germany to decide to attack France immediately after Poland falls. While the historical German army was not in a condition enact this plan, it's not unreasonable for an attack on France right after Poland falls if Germany has done better than it did historically and not lost as much equipment.
In my mod, I have it so that AI Germany is initially reluctant to call other countries to war, and altered the historical national focus order. They won't declare on the Benelux either, until they do the relevant focus.
This also keeps the Italian Fleet from suffering crippling losses to the French in 1939, and keeps the African theatre around for a few years.
Only the AI is constrained by this, players can do as they please.
Planning to add some more triggers and things, so that if AI Germany isn't doing well enough, they'll call Italy and others in,
Alternative choices is great, but what you are describing isn't what we have in game. There are many ways that decisions taken during WW2 may have change the war, that would make the game actually unpredictable. What we have are different trees which 90% leave you with uninteresting scenarios mainly due to the fixed nature of focus trees and the poor interactions between them. And may I remember that HOI is essentially a war game. That the build up is more interesting than the actual war is something worrying IMO
Regarding the "it's a business" category of arguments:
In a hypothetical situation where Paradox stated before any DLC released that their content policy would be to work on improving historical flavor and leave alt history to modders, how many fewer people would buy the game and DLC? So few that the game would no longer be a success?
Perhaps it's a personal failing that I put games in the same category of entertainment as art, so I get chafed by what I see as decisions made for commercialism's sake.
In a hypothetical situation where Paradox stated before any DLC released that their content policy would be to work on improving historical flavor and leave alt history to modders, how many fewer people would buy the game and DLC? So few that the game would no longer be a success?
Perhaps it's a personal failing that I put games in the same category of entertainment as art, so I get chafed by what I see as decisions made for commercialism's sake.
Shhh, you're giving them ideas. They already made a Manchu princess who never commanded a force larger than a regiment of mounted militia, into a skill 3 army group commander just because of her gender.
What a bunch of Joyless Jennies some people are. God forbid any development time be devoted to features you don't see the value of because, clearly, if you don't like it, it's nonsense that only a fanboy would defend.
I play in both historical and non-historical modes, and sometimes I tweak the files to make this or that focus path more or less likely. I'm all in favor of choice. I don't see what gains are made by not allowing history to go off its rails, especially when it's optional, and even more especially when the historical path is weighted by default.
Here's a fun test: plot out the next twelve years of global politics and post them here. Everyone who doesn't make a passing grade plays as communist USA until the end of eternity.
I play in both historical and non-historical modes, and sometimes I tweak the files to make this or that focus path more or less likely. I'm all in favor of choice. I don't see what gains are made by not allowing history to go off its rails, especially when it's optional, and even more especially when the historical path is weighted by default.
Here's a fun test: plot out the next twelve years of global politics and post them here. Everyone who doesn't make a passing grade plays as communist USA until the end of eternity.
I'm ready to "sell" them ideas for focus paths for ressurection of Lenin by Lysenko or calling the spirit of Marx to lead the glorious Soviet Union to the bright future. Completely for free. I can even make portraits for this.
It won't get much worse than return of the Tzar, I sure, we will see one day, or fascist takeover in the state, where above 50% of NKVD and GPU personel were jews (changed after NKVD purge of 1938-1939).
Worst thing with current HOI4 alt-history is that it is not working. Not as whole undivided system. Most states exist in some sort of vacuum, doing retarded unactual things that could work but in different circumstances. But as each focus path is the one, you can't leave and have to continue taking, AI driven only by focuses continues to go to nowhere.
I mean, I like EU4 a lot. Even despite it was turned to be more casual (let's name it AI friendly) even before I started to play it and I personally hate the fact that I'm not allowed to pass the end date in Ironman and continue or turn on random lucky nations or none at all. I like that i can do weird stuff and the world will respond. This is the diplomacy, I like, just as international politics in general.
And I didn't get such in HOI4, despite the fact, it was pretty interesting period of complex political and diplomatic combinations. I also didn't get descent designer of equipment and vehicles, allowing me to create own unique designes, just as AI would have done. I got oversimplified in many aspects pseudo-WW2 sandbox, which I learned to exploit through unflexibility of AI just as it's retardness in a matter of few runs. War has become routine, just as pre-war buildup, because min-maxing or ahistorical aggressivness or whatever would never meet any descent response. If IRL Stalin would have tried a small part of what I was doing, he would have got an all-European crusade against USSR, with Allies and Axis united.
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Weather. The invasion of France and the Low Countries was delayed by over 6 months because of bad weather. Implement realistic weather in the game and bam, you have your Phony War.
I used to really consider weather in older games, I barely notice it here.
It seem to work somehow, but don't actually stop mighty tidal wave of good divisions.