in Attack and Defense, what I dont understand

[Mentatt76]

Well, AFAIK Attack is the number of attacks a unit does in an hour, and defense is the number of attacks nullified per hour if I am not mistaken.

So in the below picture, does that mean that attacker can never harm the defender?

As seen here, Italian Attack value is crap and although there is one defender on the Spanish side, it can absorb all attacks with its 35 defense.

Also, Italian divisions are at the end of their ORG, and Spanish are full of ORG, the attack arrow on the map shows a Green 66 which means Italians are winning. So how this happen? what is the mechanics behind it?

 

[Simon_9732495]

Well, AFAIK Attack is the number of attacks a unit does in an hour, and defense is the number of attacks nullified per hour if I am not mistaken.

Attacks covered by defense are reduced by 90%, attacks over defence only by 60%. That means attacks cover by defense are doing 4 times less org damage. They are not nullified.

More details here:
https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Land_battle

Also, Italian divisions are at the end of their ORG, and Spanish are full of ORG, the attack arrow on the map shows a Green 66 which means Italians are winning. So how this happen? what is the mechanics behind it?

I don't know the mechanics. I just know: Don't believe the red and green colors of that thing.
It happens often that a battle (especially with tanks against Infatry) is deep red and suddenly you win.
And if you just add more Units to the attack, even if they are only in the reserves, the arrow becomes greener.

Theory:
Maybe it is the Org of all your divsions + reserve and all the enemy divisions + reserve compared to the actual org loss rate on both side.
In your case it would be green because the one spanish division has a lot of org and you 4 deal more dmg than the defender.

Maybe someone knows exactly how it works.

 

[Mister Analyst]

There is a video on YouTube by Reman's Paradox called [HOI4] An In-Depth Guide to Land Combat that you may find helpful.

 

[SophieX]

Italian divisions are at the end of their ORG, and Spanish are full of ORG

It is a %-comparison. And it hardly says anything about the amount of ORG.
Italian Org shows 10% ( of ??? ) and Spanish ORG shows 90% ( of ???? ). Same for the strength-bar.

 

[MJAnderson]

Even after you think you understand it you will lose a battle where you have 50% more defense after modifications, more ORG and are at full strength for reasons unknown.

 

[Harin]

I highly recommend watching the video @Mister Analyst linked above. It may help show that any defense (or breakthrough for the attacker) over the number of attacks incoming is "wasted" as in, not used. Once the number defenses matches the number of attacks, one for one, then the rest have no function, hence no value. On the other hand, each additional attack is never wasted as every attack will be used.

In the scenario above the defender has more than enough defenses to reduce each attack by 90%. The attacker can do the same, half the time at least. The defender though has fewer attacks (5), and this attacker will sometimes have more attacks to launch. Even if only 10% make a hit the superior number may be a factor.

It indeed looks like a close fight, but we do not know the attacks and breakthroughs on that reserve division, so it might be the deciding factor.

 

[Simon_9732495]

Even after you think you understand it you will lose a battle where you have 50% more defense after modifications, more ORG and are at full strength for reasons unknown.

Yes, it's sometimes complicated, but it's not a mystery. The battle window provides a lot of information

For example the battle window in the opening post.
The attackers deal together 21 soft attack, the defender only 5. The defender can deal a bit of attack over the defense of the last 2 attackers, so let's say it's 3:1 in favor of attackers.
If the attackers and defender have about the same org (which is the case because all are Infantry) the attackers will win.

It can get a lot more complicated with Air support, Piercing, Armor, ...

 

[bitmode]

Also, Italian divisions are at the end of their ORG, and Spanish are full of ORG, the attack arrow on the map shows a Green 66 which means Italians are winning. So how this happen? what is the mechanics behind it?

The 66 represents a ratio of total organization on both sides, i.e. the sum of all divisions' org on your side versus the sum on the enemy side is a ratio of 66:34.
The green color means that extrapolating the damage dealt in the last (I think) 24 hours, your side will deplete the enemy org before the opposite happens.

 

[CantGetNoSleep]

The 66 represents a ratio of total organization on both sides, i.e. the sum of all divisions' org on your side versus the sum on the enemy side is a ratio of 66:34.
The green color means that extrapolating the damage dealt in the last (I think) 24 hours, your side will deplete the enemy org before the opposite happens.

Indeed. That's also why you sometimes win despite being red: if they don't reinforce in time, you win, even though in theory they could have depleted your org before theirs.

 

[Mentatt76]

The 66 represents a ratio of total organization on both sides, i.e. the sum of all divisions' org on your side versus the sum on the enemy side is a ratio of 66:34.
The green color means that extrapolating the damage dealt in the last (I think) 24 hours, your side will deplete the enemy org before the opposite happens.

wait a minute, sometimes my green arrow shows 35 and still green. In that manner, my ORG 35 and theirs 65 ? So how its possible that their ORG will diminish first (which green arrow indicates) ???

 

[kettyo]

wait a minute, sometimes my green arrow shows 35 and still green. In that manner, my ORG 35 and theirs 65 ? So how its possible that their ORG will diminish first (which green arrow indicates) ???

Your forces reduce the enemy ORG much faster than they do to your guys.

 

[Harin]

wait a minute, sometimes my green arrow shows 35 and still green. In that manner, my ORG 35 and theirs 65 ? So how its possible that their ORG will diminish first (which green arrow indicates) ???

The color green means the system is projecting that the enemy will run out of org before you do. If you have a green 35 that means you are predicted to win despite having much less org. It also means the AI's attacks are much less effective than yours, so much so their 65:35 advantage in org is not enough to overcome it.

Even so, this low number can be a warning to you that the AI feels it can win the org battle in that province and will keep launching attacks with fresh troops. You may need to move up divisions in anticipation of rotating them into the fight.

 

[Mousetick]

Even so, this low number can be a warning to you that the AI feels it can win the org battle in that province and will keep launching attacks with fresh troops. You may need to move up divisions in anticipation of rotating them into the fight.

To clarify a bit, that would be in the case where you are defending.

If you are attacking, you typically get a green arrow with a low number at the beginning of a tank vs. infantry battle, since tanks have less org than infantry, but they inflict a lot of damage to infantry. And often they do so much so fast that the battle is won well before the battle progress counter updates to near 100% (e.g. 35 then 50 then 75 then win).