In 1.8 diplo-annex mechanics changed, but gameplay remains the same -> intended?

[tbu]

I guess the newly introduced annexation mechanic in 1.8 does not work as intended, since the change did not really alter the gameplay. I would like to suggest a small tweak to the system.

I assume the diplo-rep penalty after annexing a vassal is supposed to lower the number of vassals a country can annex per 10 years. This indeed makes sense to me, because with these insanely high integration rates prior to 1.8 (5+ annexations per 10 years already in the very early game – limited only by the diplo-relations cap, and somewhat also by the number of diplomats) the game was basically decided after 50 years.

However, as the system works now (since 1.8), no matter how many vassals are annexed by a player, the diplo-rep penalty only hits you once, so a player can still easily integrate as many vassals per 10 years as one has/wants to have diplomatic relations. The diplo-rep only affects the speed of integration, which is not the dominant factor.

My suggestion is to give a penalty for each annexed vassal. Like this, the max-annex-cap for a country would be determined by the diplo-rep (as I assume was intended by the 1.8 tweak), and not by the maximum number of diplo-relations. This would reduce the number of vassals that can be annexed per period of time to a reasonable level (1-2 per 10 years in the early game), where diplo-rep would become the determining factor.

Furthermore, the diplo-rep hit should be given at the start of the annexation process, because otherwise one can start the vassal-annexations over time such that they all finish at the exact same moment– effectively avoiding the penalty again.

 

[Me_]

Or maybe just make it impossible to start annexation while one is already underway.

 

[BaZERGer]

I don't see the problem, unless you have effects that raises diplomatic reputation, your annexation will come to a complete standstill for subjects that aren't same culture and religion, as a monarchy with good legitimacy, and the speed of annexation is still going to be slowed significantly afterwards, in addition to making diplomacy in general more difficult.

And that you can avoid it for more than one vassal by having them finish on the same month doesn't matter either, you're dedicating a diplomat to each annexation, unless you've expanded over the base of 2 diplomats, it means you can't do anything else while the annexation is in progress, like go to war.

 

[IIWW]

There is no need for further diplo-annexation nerf. You pay something, You get something. It is baanced right now.

 

[tbu]

Well, maybe I misunderstood the change Paradox did in the 1.8-patch: In my opinion, pre-1.8 it was too easy to diplo-annex, and I thought the 1.8-change was supposed to be a nerf, which it was not really, since you can still annex 4-5 vassals every 10 years. So whats the point of making something more "difficult" if it can be circumvented by paying more attention to the math? So my main point would not be whether or not diplo-annexing should be nerfed (I know people think very differently about this topic ), but rather that the 1.8-nerf should be implemented correctly.

 

[IIWW]

It was a rebalance. It 1.7 (compared to 1.6) diplo-annexation was costly, yet fast. In 1.8 it's cheaper, but considerably slower. And -3 diprep slows down quite a bit, if player invested some MP or effort into increasing his diprep, he shouldn't be further punished.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Direct conquest already makes your nation stronger sooner; you want to nerf diploannex further?

The only real incentive to annex now is to clear a vassal that's getting too big, or to paint efficiently while growing in power inefficiently.