Improving the popegame

[pharaomatic]

Basically I think that the popegame, as it is now, is working, in the sense, it's not broken. It's still a vast improvement over the popeelection in the earlier EU games, but still, it could be better.

Inspired by this complaintthread, I thought it would be nice with a thread for suggestions on how the system should be reworked.

In my opinion, the popegame should be integrated within the diplogame. The diplomats should be the tool you reach the papal chair with, not the papal influence points and clicking every 6 months. This would have the advantage that the click every 6 months thing would end and I think this is historical, since kings often would let their second or thirdborn son join the church ranks and gain a position there or outright place him as bishop or archbishop.

What I like about the system now is that it every catholic nation gets a chance, with work, luck and good clicking, to reach the papal chair, not just the italian princes and France and Spain as it more or less was historically.

I also like that controlling the papacy isn't a gamewinning factor. The bonusses are really nice, but it's nothing that's essential for a major power. Also I like that it doesn't feel completely random as in the earlier EU games.

My idea is centered around that you can acquire a cardinal and then work or groom him into the vatican and then the papal chair with the help of diplomats/missionaries and maybe some coin. To reach the papal chair you need to invest something and it might not go as planned, he might die or might just never get elected.

I'm thinking that cardinals should be acquired or bought by nations. The diploscreen should have a "Build Cardinal", a bit like the "Annex vassal" button and the time and money required, should be decided by different factors, like relationship with The Papal State. Italian princes and theocracies should have an easier time getting a cardinal.

Events should give you a cardinal if you already have an heir. This should reflect that rulers let's their secondborn sons enter the church, since they can't become kings.

Historically the pope limited himself to 70 seats and I think this is a nice number of cardinals. When the pope election is due, simple election, as it is now, should decide who becomes pope.

I'm a bit in doubt whether the pope should change with control of the curia or just when there's a new pope.

What do people think? Anyone else got some ideas?

 

[Pellaken]

My preference is for a bid system.

So you start with a pope. I'd always start the game, default, with the pope being under the "oversight" of the Papal States, just as a default go-to. Should the Papal States ever not exist, the default go-to would be whomever owns Rome, or failing that, the largest Catholic nation, etc etc.

Each pope would live for a certain amount of time, averaging the length of real popes from the time period.

Whenever a pope dies, a Conclave is held.
Upon reaching the last day of the month, the first "tick" happens.
One month later (on the last day of the following month) a die is rolled. The exact proportions can be worked out later, but 5/6ths of the time, if bids have come in that month, the conclaves continues. 1/6th of the time, it ends.

Whomever is the highest bidder at the end of the conclave "wins" the election, and the pope is "theirs" for his lifespan, with the pope defaulting to the default nation in the event of a disaster (like the controller being annexed)

Bidding would be in the form of papal influence, but, you could gain that influence by buying it outright with monarch points, maybe even cash.

Based on the number of Catholic provinces, the game would expect a certain amount of "bid" to be cast, perhaps a total of 5000 points, or something. If the bid is under the expected amount by a large number, the church would begin to lose power. If it is over that amount the church would gain power.

A longer conclave means, likely, more bids and more power for the church; but, if a conclave goes too long, the church should begin to lose power as a side-effect of that in itself.

You'd lose what you bid weather or not your candidate wins, but in exchange, you strengthen the church.


Maybe for fun, the option to allow players to try to assassinate the pope. If you are found out; it can get really really ugly.

 

[pharaomatic]

Maybe for fun, the option to allow players to try to assassinate the pope. If you are found out; it can get really really ugly.

Nice. I think it could be really cool, maybe as an event.

 

[Bibor]

Just add an auto-bid checkbox to the papal screen and we're good