Improving The New Tabbed Outliner

[Harvey Gomez]

I REALLY like the new tabbed outliner. It is heads and shoulders better than the old non-tabbed one. But it could be better.

As others have suggested we should be able to customize the outliner. I, for one, would like to be able to resize it to make the whole thing AND individual tabs bigger and smaller. There is a mod that makes the outliner smaller and easier to read and navigate. Something similar would be welcomed.

I would also like more tabs or rather sub-tabs. As the game progresses and my empire gets bigger I would like a separate tab for sectors at the top and a sub-tab for planets at the bottom. Or each sector tab having it's own sub-tab for it's planets and habitats. I also like the idea of being able to split tabs and reposition them around the screen as I've seen mentioned. Maybe something along the bottom with an icon similar to notifications that just clicking on will open that specific tab?

I would also like a tab for wormholes and gateways with a quick navigation button to go directly to that wormhole or gateway.

I think we can get rid of the Politics tab altogether. I have never understood the purpose of tracking factions in the first place. They have zero effect on ANY of the games I have played and seem to only be there to let me know where I have been getting a teeny tiny amount of Unity. I think this entire feature can be reworked and simplified to just show the trend in an empire's political thinking instead of wasting resources and time on pointless factions that do nothing.

I would like one tab for shipyards with a sub-tab for fleets also with quick navigation. And I would like a separate tab for starbases/ anchorages. As it is it is too cluttered to have all this information crammed onto the sectors and planets tab. Sure, it's fine if you're playing tall and only have a few systems. But it is a massive drag on gameplay when you play wide with dozens of sectors and scores of planets.

These are just a few thoughts I had. But again, I want to say that I REALLY like the new tabbed outliner. And I also want to thank the person or persons that won the argument that lead to this positive change. With the horrible decisions made this year alone (leader cap anyone?) it's nice to finally have something positive to acknowledge in Stellaris even if it is a small positive.

 

[mrlaxe]

I really hate this dumb change, holy hell i am so frustrated that i want to refund the DLC and be done with this game.
Feels like they have some console GUI developer who thinks a strategy game needs hidden information to make the UI look sleeker or something....

Its beyond dumb to hide such information

AND even more dumb to make it so that you can't even mod it back to show proper information.

AT least give us ability to chose not force crap like this on everyone just because someone likes it. WHY NOT MAKE FLUID GUI where you can drag blocks of information where you want on screen and make them either a icon to expand on click/hover or always SHOW it

Holy hell modern gaming is such garbage, 20+ years ago i played games and there was information always clearly shown, i could drag interface elements and hide/minimize or pin them on screen

NOW every game needs to be minimalistic garbage where you spend more playtime clicking through windows than actually playing the game......

TRASH update

 

[Godpuppet]

The new Tabbed Outliner in its current form is awful.

Having to click between tabs constantly just to see progress in my mind, is a massive step backwards.


Other alternatives too tabs that avoid scrolling:
- Allow sub sections to be dragged out of the outliner and positioned anywhere on the screen.

 

[Franton]

Just an idea

Other alternatives too tabs that avoid scrolling:
- Allow sub sections to be dragged out of the outliner and positioned anywhere on the screen.

Simply add the ability to move and resize any window, and store GUI layouts so you can swiftly switch between layouts for different purposes. And if its not so simple to do this within the game, introduce a layout mode that modifies the (currently fixed) positions to something else, before starting the game.

I would also like an option to not only order shown items by certain criteria, but also filter them, e. g. showing only planets within one sector, or only forge worlds, or just all your habitats. Ording was very helpful already, but when you look for planets with certain properties in a list of >100 habitable objects, that's still very time-consuming!

 

[Franton]

Other alternatives too tabs that avoid scrolling:

On a sidenote: the scroling wouldn't be so bad if the scrollbar would be a little wider! Currently it's incredibly hard to just hit on high resolution screens!

It would also help if clicking anywhere into an outliner view would actually make it the focus window for key input, such as the up and down keys. Come on, that is 30 year old GUI technology! Why can't Stellaris do it?

 

[RELee]

 

[Peace Weaver]

I was frequently overwhelmed and confused by the old outliner, and the changes in this update are a definite improvement, even if not perfect. I've heard there are already more plans for refining this element of UI and I am looking forward to them.

 

[Zoomy]

The bit I hate most about the new outliner is one I hardly hear people mention, so must just be me; know how when there's unemployment it now has a little notification that show how many unemployed there are in a little circle? Yeah that. Hate it. Everytime I see it I think "aah, shoot, need to do something now, make that circle go away", but it's unemployment there's not much you can generally do "now" even if you plop a district down it's still gonna take time to build and the entire time that circle's there, taunting me. Sometimes I forget and play the game some more, or pause and grab a drink, come back see it and think "aah, shoot, need to do something now, make that circle go away" and thus the cycle continues.

 

[Refuel]

The new outliner has some serious performance issues that you can see for yourself. The next time you are into a run past the first 50-100 years try this..........

1. Resume a game and once it loads just leave it paused.

2. WASD scroll around the galaxy map for a little to get a feel for how it scrolls.

3. Remove the outliner "O" and repeat scrolling and see that it is noticeably smoother.

You can also go into console and use 3dstats to see how the presence of the outliner with and without affects the graphic performance. It's very VERY noticeable on an endgame run when the outliner is taxed with so many entries. Even when the game is in a paused state the outliner is taking up some definite processing and is further bogging down the game as it feels like its always refreshing and running calcs while paused. Also noticed that the new outliner doesn't update fully and will show some starbases as upgrading with the progress bar and others with the same que will not show on the outliner.

 

[Harvey Gomez]

The new outliner has some serious performance issues that you can see for yourself. The next time you are into a run past the first 50-100 years try this..........

1. Resume a game and once it loads just leave it paused.

2. WASD scroll around the galaxy map for a little to get a feel for how it scrolls.

3. Remove the outliner "O" and repeat scrolling and see that it is noticeably smoother.

You can also go into console and use 3dstats to see how the presence of the outliner with and without affects the graphic performance. It's very VERY noticeable on an endgame run when the outliner is taxed with so many entries. Even when the game is in a paused state the outliner is taking up some definite processing and is further bogging down the game as it feels like its always refreshing and running calcs while paused. Also noticed that the new outliner doesn't update fully and will show some starbases as upgrading with the progress bar and others with the same que will not show on the outliner.

I did as you suggested and noticed no difference in performance. I'm 92 years into my game, have about 19% of a medium galaxy explored and the game runs very smooth with and without the outliner open. I know to expect the game to rapidly grind to a halt after 150 years as it always does, always has but the new tabbed outliner seems to have zero effect my game's performance other than making it A LOT easier to play and therefore more enjoyable than it was before this positive change was made.

I have not noticed the update issues you mentioned either. In my game, the first one I've attempted since the change, all of the information presented on every tab is 100% accurate 100% of the time insofar as I have seen. Maybe it's because I do not and have never used any mods? Most of the problems I've read that players are having have to do with some conflict with the mods they use. Since I have never used and don't use mods I cannot say. I only know how to play Stellaris as it was released not altered in some way with mods put out by anonymous third parties. So, as PDX has released Stellaris my game is working just fine.

And I expect it to run 1000% better once they permanently remove the leader cap so I can get back to thoroughly enjoying what I paid for. And when that happens I just might be inclined to start spending money on this game again. I can't wait for PDX to finish the game and release it from its perpetual early access state. I'm tired of all this beta testing.

 

[Harvey Gomez]

I had another thought regarding improving the already positive tabbed outliner.

In addition to all of the other great ideas for improving the functionality of this positive improvement to the outliner I think players should be give the choice to enable/ disable the new better tabbed outliner and have the option to CHOOSE to switch back to the old terrible non-tabbed outliner. I think making this one change will satisfy everyone.

It will allow those of us smart enough to see how much better the outliner is now that has been improved to continue to enjoy this positive improvement (moreso once all the other positive changes are added) and it will allow those players not smart enough to see how much better the outliner is now that it is tabbed to continue playing the old way with the outliner being confusing, cluttered and difficult to navigate with it's endless scrolling up and down.

I think this can be achieved by the simple addition of a toggle check box in the settings menu.

 

[Harvey Gomez]

Another idea for improving the new tabbed outliner: removing megastructures from it.

I think megastructures should have their own tab along the left side of the screen with all of the other important game information such as the Market, Leaders, Discoveries, etc.. This would free up important space on the outliner for more important data that needs to be accessed frequently and acted upon. Megastructures can be given their own window that does not fill the screen but can be left open along the left edge of the screen for those times we want to maximize construction. This would be a HUGE benefit when it comes to Megashipyards during multiple simultaneous wars where seconds count toward survival.

 

[MrFreake_PDX]

There are still outliner improvements planned.

 

[Panzerslothen]

Good for you, Harvey Gomez! I really like hearing a bit of positivity about something, for once. We've had nothing but condemnation and criticism for the new Outliner since it dropped. Constant venom and toxicity about it. [I'm not saying I'm for or against the Outliner changes myself, yet - I haven't formed an opinion - but even the most righteous criticism gets wearisome after a while]

The Devs must be quite demoralised and aggrieved about it all.

It's really disappointing to see four people (at time of writing) giving you the finger for the audacity of liking something they hate.

 

[Fulgrymm]

Good for you, Harvey Gomez! I really like hearing a bit of positivity about something, for once. We've had nothing but condemnation and criticism for the new Outliner since it dropped. Constant venom and toxicity about it. [I'm not saying I'm for or against the Outliner changes myself, yet - I haven't formed an opinion - but even the most righteous criticism gets wearisome after a while]

The Devs must be quite demoralised and aggrieved about it all.

It's really disappointing to see four people (at time of writing) giving you the finger for the audacity of liking something they hate.

Life is a lot easier if you don't pitch a fit over getting red X's. I certainly get my fair share of them, but I don't much see the point of losing sleep over them.

 

[fourteenfour]

There are still outliner improvements planned.

TL;DR Allow the players to select any and all items for each tab. It gives the players the flexibility to make the game interface work for them and that should be the focus of any UI change. Flexibility to tailor the experience.


the ability is obviously there already as you have segmented what can be selected by tab there is no reason everything cannot be selected for any tab. PDX loses nothing by providing players this flexibility but my fear is that it will be embedded in such a way that fixing it with a mod breaks achievements.

It is a poor UI choice to have items which players regularly interact with or can flag attention needed on different tabs.


An example. Colonies, Construction Ships, and Science Ships, all can require attention and spawn alerts but require changing tabs to manage. In the early game if not mid game quite a few players watch over these three items more than any other.

As for other choices, I really feel that shoving factions, integration, and such, to their own tab was done just to have a tab. All these choices are related to my government. Separating ships from the starbases is just odd as well. These should have been grouped from the get go.

 

[fourteenfour]

Life is a lot easier if you don't pitch a fit over getting red X's. I certainly get my fair share of them, but I don't much see the point of losing sleep over them.

Look, they would not be an issue if the player could choose the content and order of each tab. Problem solved. The code change would not even be that great as all the components are already there.

 

[Elrawien]

I would like the option to have multiple tabs displayed at the same time (stacked from left to right). A lot of people have wide monitors, there are so much unused space on either side of the screen. It would be a huge quality of life change for wide/ultra wide screen users.

 

[Harvey Gomez]

There are still outliner improvements planned.

Wonderful news. Makes me believe in Santa Claus again (not really but more that feeling of believing I had as a kid that the world and the people in it are intrinsically good.) I, for one, look forward to this patch.

 

[Eladrin]

I've posted an update to the 3.10.2 outliner changes here, with screenshots of someone of the possibilities.