Improving non-Norse and non-Mongol pagans

[Prince Michael]

Yes! Oh, yes! Just because the Finns are of a different faith than the Slavs, doesn't mean that they won't do everything in their power to help in the defense of their homeland (that's essentially how I see the defensive bonus).

Exactly. I learned it the hard way in my current game (the first serious game as a pagan, and in 867, better late than never!). I started as one of the Mordvin counts around Vladimir and ended up as a vassal of Slavic Rus. I was perfectly happy until I noticed that the Cumans (both unreformed and later reformed Tengri) had absolutely no hard time marching their doomstacks in my Suomenusko counties against my Slavic liege. I was forced to load an earlier save to immediately seek for independence, just to save myself. Not fun.

 

[unmerged(47028)]

A bit for flavour:
- The Romuva Holy Site in Chelmno should be moved to the Temple of Romowe (Romuva) in Sambia

I totally agree. I was surprised to see that the holiest Romuva place was not holy in CK2.

 

[SBolshevik]

I totally agree. I was surprised to see that the holiest Romuva place was not holy in CK2.

And Sambia should be the capital of the Romuva High Priesthood, not Rana.
EDIT: Considering that the entire religion is named after the alleged temple, it's very surprising.

 

[unmerged(47028)]

Holy Orders for Reformed Pagans. Even if they're imaginary, it's better than nothing.

Holy Orders for reformed pagans would work. I am reminded of the Medieval II Total war expansion which had the Lithuanians fighting the tectonic order and the warrior priests they got as special units.

Reformed pagans are strong enough as they are now, imo. Holy orders are a nice idea flavor-wise though.

In my vanilla (before the Old Gods expansion) pagan Lithuania AAR, I used retinue as some imaginary Holly Orders.

 

[SBolshevik]

In my vanilla (before the Old Gods expansion) pagan Lithuania AAR, I used retinue as some imaginary Holly Orders.

How many hollies were in the order?

 

[unmerged(47028)]

How many hollies were in the order?

Holly sh.. loads of them

 

[unmerged(47028)]

I have played only one game so far. I would recommend limiting "the kingdom subjugation". It is a very strong CB.

It should require:
- adulthood;
- lots of prestige and/or piety.

I do not think that children should be allowed to do it and that somebody without prestige would have enough support of population to do such a thing.

It would limit an overly aggressive expansion at the beginning.

 

[VolitionNewlove]

Somewhat relevant, is that I really hope the Tengri holy sites are moved farther apart. It is a given that the largest empires will be Tengri ones, and so I see the Tengri faith reform a little too often.

2. Rurik's conquest of Russia is slower (although it's already screwed up by the existence of Ruthenia).

Ruthenia has bugged me for quite a while. The name is simply a Latinisation of the name "Rus." Either the two should be merged, or otherwise, perhaps it could be made into the a "Kingdom of Kiev," if merging them would cause it to be too large. Perhaps merging the kingdom, but rearranging some other lands into Lithuania, and the like. Thus, the "Become King of Rus" ambition would mean the Rurikids would conquer Kiev and the surrounding counties.

In my game as Minsk, I bought the Ruler Designer solely to rename the title to "Nizhny Rus," as Ruthenia just looks rather silly to me. Not only does the name sound absurd to use as a Russian, Slavic Pagan ruler, but the name simply means Rus, which already exists as another kingdom.

 

[SBolshevik]

Ruthenia has bugged me for quite a while. The name is simply a Latinisation of the name "Rus." Either the two should be merged, or otherwise, perhaps it could be made into the a "Kingdom of Kiev," if merging them would cause it to be too large. Perhaps merging the kingdom, but rearranging some other lands into Lithuania, and the like.

In my game as Minsk, I bought the Ruler Designer solely to rename the title to "Nizhny Rus," as Ruthenia just looks rather silly to me. Not only does the name sound absurd to use as a Russian, Slavic Pagan ruler, but the name simply means Rus, which already exists as another kingdom.

Some guy suggested this, and I've suggested some other stuff below to improve the Rus.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?717627-Suggestion-4-kingdoms