Improving non-Norse and non-Mongol pagans

[SBolshevik]

Since the non-Norse and non-Mongol Tengri have no flavour or any sort of special stuff, this is a thread to suggest such stuff.
I will start: Adapting Prepared Invasions to work as migrations for non-Mongol Tengri Pagans.
The modifications would be simple:
- Restrict usage of the "Prepared Invasion" option to neighbouring countries
- Events do not give ships, but instead more troops
- Events give nasty attrition modifiers and destroy buildings within your realm, meaning that failing the migration would severely weaken you
A bit for flavour:
- The Romuva Holy Site in Chelmno should be moved to the Temple of Romowe (Romuva) in Sambia

 

[unmerged(751237)]

Since the non-Norse and non-Mongol Tengri have no flavour or any sort of special stuff, this is a thread to suggest such stuff.
I will start: Adapting Prepared Invasions to work as migrations for non-Mongol Tengri Pagans.
The modifications would be simple:
- Restrict usage of the "Prepared Invasion" option to neighbouring countries
- Events do not give ships, but instead more troops
- Events give nasty attrition modifiers and destroy buildings within your realm, meaning that failing the migration would severely weaken you
A bit for flavour:
- The Romuva Holy Site in Chelmno should be moved to the Temple of Romowe (Romuva) in Sambia

Tengris already have those tribal invasion CBs. They do NOT need another kingdom-targeting CB.

 

[SBolshevik]

Tengris already have those tribal invasion CBs. They do NOT need another kingdom-targeting CB.

Wrong. Only the Magyars + Altaics have the Tribal Invasion CB. Besides, it could be a substitute to the Tribal Invasion CB.

 

[unmerged(772158)]

Tengris already have those tribal invasion CBs. They do NOT need another kingdom-targeting CB.

I'm pretty sure he means to replace tribal invasion, since it is being used to haphazardly represent migration atm.

Though what was mentioned only really helps Tengris, the Romuva one barely matters and this has no affect on Sueomunsko (or however you spell it) and Slavic pagans.

 

[Lord Finnish]

Suomenusko should have something to prevent them getting slaughtered by Norse by 900, same for Romuva come to think of it.

 

[SBolshevik]

Suomenusko should have something to prevent them getting slaughtered by Norse by 900, same for Romuva come to think of it.

Maybe the Norse and Tengri suffering a slightly lesser "Pagan Homeland" attrition penalty when in defensive pagan lands?

 

[SBolshevik]

Holy Orders for Reformed Pagans. Even if they're imaginary, it's better than nothing.

 

[unmerged(77885)]

Holy Orders for reformed pagans would work. I am reminded of the Medieval II Total war expansion which had the Lithuanians fighting the tectonic order and the warrior priests they got as special units.

 

[Agnostik]

Reformed pagans are strong enough as they are now, imo. Holy orders are a nice idea flavor-wise though.

 

[Lord Finnish]

Maybe the Norse and Tengri suffering a slightly lesser "Pagan Homeland" attrition penalty when in defensive pagan lands?

I'm down with that. Perhaps Suomenusko should get an inherent supply penalty modifier against anyoe in their lands, except Suomenusko itself of course. That could be their specialty, like Norse have their own special bonuses (prepared invasions etc.)

 

[SBolshevik]

I'm down with that. Perhaps Suomenusko should get an inherent supply penalty modifier against anyoe in their lands, except Suomenusko itself of course. That could be their specialty, like Norse have their own special bonuses (prepared invasions etc.)

AFAIK, Suomenusko do have a lesser defensive bonus in comparison to Romuva and Slavic. And, of course, fixing of the West African faith Pagan Homeland:
west_african_pagan_DESC;West African religion is a blanket term for the diverse pagan beliefs of the tribes of Sub-Saharan West Africa. Ancestor worship, animism and totemistic shamanism dominate, but there also various pantheons of gods. Defining features in-game:\n§Y*§! Low-tech non-pagans have very low Supply Limit in Pagan counties\n§Y*§! Can declare Subjugation Wars against all other pagans\n§Y*§! Rulers are limited to Gavelkind Succession\n§Y*§! Rulers cannot declare Holy Wars\n§Y*§! Inferior at conversion and vulnerable to non-pagan missionaries\n§Y*§! Defensive bonuses in West African Pagan counties\n§Y*§! The West African Pagan faith can be Reformed

 

[unmerged(633385)]

I definitely don't want to see holy orders for reformed Tengri. They would make the other pagans more fun for the player, but the AI, of course, is hardly ever going to get them.

The defensive bonuses should be changed and I do think they should affect the Norse. It's kind of silly that early in the game, I can have stacks of 10K Norse just devastating the Slavs without bothering with attrition. For all practical purposes, the wars are over the moment I decide to declare them.

Maybe give them a special CB that comes with more event troops? Instead of invasions, liberate or take back the homeland? If one of their original counties is completely held by rulers of a different faith, they could use the CB. I don't know. I haven't really thought that one through.

 

[SBolshevik]

I definitely don't want to see holy orders for reformed Tengri. They would make the other pagans more fun for the player, but the AI, of course, is hardly ever going to get them.

The defensive bonuses should be changed and I do think they should affect the Norse. It's kind of silly that early in the game, I can have stacks of 10K Norse just devastating the Slavs without bothering with attrition. For all practical purposes, the wars are over the moment I decide to declare them.

Maybe give them a special CB that comes with more event troops? Instead of invasions, liberate or take back the homeland? If one of their original counties is completely held by rulers of a different faith, they could use the CB. I don't know. I haven't really thought that one through.

Defensive pagan attrition for Norse and Tengri would have two benefits:
1. The Norse do not create an early Swedish Empire all the time.
2. Rurik's conquest of Russia is slower (although it's already screwed up by the existence of Ruthenia).

 

[SBolshevik]

Is there perhaps a religion other than the Norse which could use a secular religious head?

 

[JSmith0730]

Pagans need to be able to land raid beyond just adjacent provinces. Something also needs to be done regarding the fact that chief level pagans really can't raid solo because garrisons are biggre than their starting levies, which means they have to piggyback on the odd chance that someone with larger forces decides to attack an adjacent neighbor, then they need to make sure to get there first so they actually get the loot.

 

[SBolshevik]

Pagans need to be able to land raid beyond just adjacent provinces. Something also needs to be done regarding the fact that chief level pagans really can't raid solo because garrisons are biggre than their starting levies, which means they have to piggyback on the odd chance that someone with larger forces decides to attack an adjacent neighbor, then they need to make sure to get there first so they actually get the loot.

Especially the Magyars should. I mean, they raided into West Francia, yet here they need ships to do it.

 

[Prince Michael]

I would apply the defensive pagan attrition feature to the Norse, too. Too often the Norse will rampage all of the Baltic, while in 1066 and later they have a chance to survive, because their powerful neighbours are Christian and, thus, suffer the penalty.

I'd advocate, too, that all counties under defensive pagans which have defensive pagan religion as the county religion should enjoy the attrition bonus. Now Suomenusko counties and vassals can be taken easily if their liege is Slavic, for example.




And of course West African pagans should get the defensive attrition bonus, but this is more of the bugfixing stuff, as well as the bugged pagan festivals (the AI can't hold them because of an oversight in the code, and they don't give the opinion bonus the game claims they give).

 

[SBolshevik]

I'd advocate, too, that all counties under defensive pagans which have defensive pagan religion as the county religion should enjoy the attrition bonus. Now Suomenusko counties and vassals can be taken easily if their liege is Slavic, for example.

Yes! Oh, yes! Just because the Finns are of a different faith than the Slavs, doesn't mean that they won't do everything in their power to help in the defense of their homeland (that's essentially how I see the defensive bonus).

 

[Mr Bernie]

Is there perhaps a religion other than the Norse which could use a secular religious head?

Given that we're in firmly ahistorical territory with reformed religion anyways, I'd say that really all reformed titles should be given to the reformer. If the player goes to the trouble to reform the Finnic faith, e.g., they should also be able to call Great Holy Wars at their leisure then.

 

[SBolshevik]

The problem is getting a unique name for them. AFAIK, the supposed High Priest of Romuva (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romowe) was Kriwe of Kriwes, so that wouldn't be hard (and renaming Romuva priests into Kriwes).