Improving AI Germany vs AI USSR in 108

[DrZoidberg]

It seems to me that the German AI doesn't use the speardoctrine correctly.

Attacking through the baltic states with all its forrests is useless, and there are also mountains and rivers on the boarder near Romania.
A spearheard through the plains from hungary towards Kiev -> Rostov in summer 1941.
And then another spearhead from Kiev towards either Riga or Moscowy in summer 1942 is what I suggest.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

I donnot think the AI is capable of that.

 

[NiL_FisK|Urd]

It is, if you want to add many .ai files with target provinces and ai events - but then the AI will do the same in every game ^^

Japan has such a scripted strategy.

 

[Titan79]

It seems to me that the German AI doesn't use the speardoctrine correctly.

Attacking through the baltic states with all its forrests is useless...

But this is exactly what has been done in real life, and with excellent results, by Erich von Manstein's LVI Panzerkorps... (see the chapter "Panzer drive" in his war memoirs, "Lost Victories")

Besides, the original Barbarossa had three main axes of advance - north, center and south, so it's at least historical that the AI takes the same path.

 

[Cakes]

I've always thought that expecting a historical outcome to an unscripted chain of events is a bit unrealistic. Russia is always expecting a German attack! :blink:

However, we might be able to script the unpreparedness of the Soviet forces by giving Stalin (as a leader) negative defence bonuses, infantry construction bonuses, intOp chances and surprise chances to reflect the fact that he really did not believe that Germany would attack Russia.

These negative bonuses could gradually reduce over time (via events) from the moment of German attack.

#Cakes

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Barbarossa starts on june the 6th. The soviets start with approximatly 283 divisions.

The third gpw event fires on june the 29th. 187 german divisions vs. 256 soviet ones.
The fourth gpw event fires on july the 13th. 190 german divisions vs. 228 soviet ones.
The fifth gpw event fires on july the 27th.
The last gpw event fires on august the 11th. 193 german divisions vs. 187 soviet ones.
Moscow falls in late august while in Stalingrad is still 1000 km away from the main front.
The soviet ai does use a too small amount of its troops for defending moscow. Defending moscow must be a top priority for the ai.
In october finnland has lost quite some provinces. 199 german division vs. 134 soviet ones.

PS: The soviet provinces controlled by finnland were conquered by german troops after finnland had lost 5 provinces.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

And a few weeks later Stalingrad, Baku and Vladivostok are lost. IF JAP had joined axis by this time bitter peace would trigger. But Germany invaded instead.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Bitter Peace triggers on june the 5th in 1943. Does anyone want to try out this save?

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

I've always thought that expecting a historical outcome to an unscripted chain of events is a bit unrealistic. Russia is always expecting a German attack! :blink:

However, we might be able to script the unpreparedness of the Soviet forces by giving Stalin (as a leader) negative defence bonuses, infantry construction bonuses, intOp chances and surprise chances to reflect the fact that he really did not believe that Germany would attack Russia.

These negative bonuses could gradually reduce over time (via events) from the moment of German attack.

#Cakes

Yes! Please implement this if you can, these suggestions are extremely historical and would definitely help balance the game, it's a win win!

And a few weeks later Stalingrad, Baku and Vladivostok are lost. IF JAP had joined axis by this time bitter peace would trigger. But Germany invaded instead.

How was Germany able to invade Vladivostok if Japan wasn't in the Axis?

 

[Pang Bingxun]

They must have used transport ships from west of france to the very east of russia. But after all they were escorted by some destroyers or at least that is what some sunken soviet subs indicate. Truely i did not notice it until it had happened. At first i asked myself if the allied were at war with the USSR but than i realized that this colour was not france.

One solution of making moscow better defended is to outcomment the soviet capital change events.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

They must have used transport ships from west of france to the very east of russia. But after all they were escorted by some destroyers or at least that is what some sunken soviet subs indicate. Truely i did not notice it until it had happened. At first i asked myself if the allied were at war with the USSR but than i realized that this colour was not france.

One solution of making moscow better defended is to outcomment the soviet capital change events.

How is the west of France exactly or less than 3000km from Vladivostok? I thought AoD removed the unlimited naval range for the AI?

 

[NiL_FisK|Urd]

Or setting a high province priority for 175, and not just the captial

 

[Cakes]

How about an event to increase the defences in #175 to reflect the tank traps and other defences built when Germany was nearing Moscow? We could also implement 1-2 Garrison divisions there as part of the same event?

As per my earlier comment, I have been testing some new events (4 of them) to reflect the Russian unpreparedness for War due to Stalins belief that Germany would not attack.
#1 "Russian Complacency" - Early 1936
Pretty much immediately, Russia gets some 'penalties' to Surprise (10%), Intelligence (10%) and Army Detection (10%)
#2 "A german proposal" - Following Molotov Ribbentrop pact proposal
Further Russian 'penalties' to HQ supply efficiency (10%), Repair mod (20%), Surprise land (15%). Intelligence (15%), army detection (15%) and radar efficiency (5%)
#3 "Alarming reports from the border" - Just following launch of Barbarossa (5 days later)
Slight improvements (all 5%) to previous penalties (I might revise this slightly, improving repair values closer to their original value).
#4 "The treacherous Germans have betrayed us!" - 35 days after event #3
All values back to their normal settings (improvements for all previous penalty values).

'Plans'
I am also thinking of introducing a German penalty to "frozen_attack/snow_attack/blizzard_attack" (if I can - havent looked into it properly) of the order of 3% - with 'bonuses' to Russian values of 2% (For Infantry and Tanks).

'The result'
As of August 1941, Germany has pushed USSR back to the outskirts of Moscow. Russian forces were being destroyed and encircled fairly rapidly due to the German advances. However, they were repulsed (they were spread slightly too thin) by the Russian defenders before they could launch an assault on Moscow.
Germany also pushed as far as Stalino in the South, before having to cut back their advances.
That was after my initial events were implemented (the events are firing correctly) but before I made some tweaks to the values and adding some additional values (still to be tested).

Looking promising but its still early days.. :happy:

#Cakes

 

[Hister]

Heh Cakes, you managed to get historical outcomes in your first try - what a beginner's luck! ;D

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Moscow has fort level 5. If The soviets attempt to defend moscow they would very likely succeed.

 

[Cakes]

Heh Cakes, you managed to get historical outcomes in your first try - what a beginner's luck! ;D

Yep, total fluke!

Edit..
USSR were on the outskirts of Berlin in Sept 1945
They finally took over Germany in Feb 1946 (partitioning soon followed).

(I was playing as Sweden and observing)

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Barbarossa starts on july the 3rd. 208 german divisions vs. 328 soviet ones. 472/305 IC vs. 408/281 IC.
On july the 6th the third gpw event fires. 224 german divisions vs. 255 soviet ones.
On november the 5th the fourth gpw event fires. 236 german division vs. 263 soviet ones.
I guess my last changes are a bit over the edge. germany runs out of manpower in july 1941.
The good thing is that moscow did not fall and it is near to be surrounded in november, so after all the front is near historic. There are about 40 vs. 50 divisions near moscow.

 

[Hister]

Pang B., why don't you do the changes Cakes had the success with?

 

[Pang Bingxun]

For one thing i am experimenting with some bigger changes and i donnot want this to interfere and for second i would like to avoid using more events than eventually needed.

 

[Hister]

Fair enough.