Improvement suggestions (my experiances after conquering the galaxy, 60 hours in 6 days)

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Delpheus

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STELLARIS
I got Stellaris last week and instantly became addicted, the depth and immersion sucking me in like a black hole. After 60 hours over 6 days, a 1000 star galaxy was mine. Much of the game was excellent, but I'm here to share my experiences with some problems, and offer suggestions for improvement.

#1 "Fallen" Empires
I started out with this setting turned on, assuming it meant I'd have (extinct) ancient civilizations to explore, for story and research opportunities. As my people reached for the stars, they discovered these "Fallen" Empires were actually galactic superpowers. Without warning, hostile fleets (50k-100K in power) invaded while my empire was in its infancy, eradicating every last trace of my race...

There was no chance for negotiation and with an inferior fleet there was no hope of victory. The fallen empire wanted only one thing--total annihilation.


(A related issue--negotiation options, although limitations based on starting traits is a good concept, but in this situation I could do nothing but die.)

Are Fallen Empires always hostile? I didn't want to waste time figuring that out. My solution for this problem was to restart a new game with Fallen Empires turned off.

#2 War Goals (and altering them)
I like the war goal system as a concept, but in practice it has numerous problems. Some war goals I never considered because they were too costly, such as vassals--it's cheaper and simpler to take total control of their planets. I see no logic in that.

Also, why are we unable to change war goals? In the flow of time and in the ever-changing state of the galaxy, certain events can radically change you perspective and goals. (Why can't we change our mind about liberation and force our enemies to cede instead?) If you're invasion is fairing better than anticipated, with every planet invaded or blockaded, I should be able to force my demands for their entire empire. With the system as it is now, taking an empire piece by piece over the span of decades (because of the forced truce system--a related issue) can be frustrating and, again, I see no logic in that. The system is too limiting--I don't want the game to tell me I'm asking for too much, that is something for ME to decide.

The reality is: goals change! I wanted to be an astronaut as a child, but I changed my mind.


Also, I was unaware that there is a window of opportunity for setting war goals. I had an empire declare war on my, but I was busy with other matters and neglected to set demands. When I had prepared to answer the invaders in kind, my ability to set war goals was no longer available. I had to fight a war, gained nothing, and had to wait 10 years for the damn truce to end.

Can we also get more war goal options, such as forcing a trade agreement? Military power and intimidation can be very persuasive. This function can also be added to the trade window (do this, or else...) Let us make deals with more options or conditions or threats. Maybe we can force other empires to change their government type or policies and edicts (slavery)--wars have been fought for this before.

#3 Space Warfare, Fleet Management, Idle Ships, and Disobeying Direct Orders
Managing a galactic empire isn't always about sunshine and lollipops and rainbows. Sometimes, you have to get your hands dirty. The war itself can be stressful, but not nearly as stressful as managing your fleets. In war, one small mistake can result catastrophic loss of life, or give way to defeat. There are so many problems with fleet management I'm not sure where to begin.

I'll start at the strategic level. When looking at the map, some critical information is not displayed. On a massive star map, I can't always remember where systems/planets, space ports (and level), and armies are located exactly. The side interface and find feature don't help much.

(A related issue--the find feature only finds systems, not specific planets, or anything else of relevance)

We need more information on the map. Give us icons for space ports and armies (not just occupying armies) and the races in each system. I need to know which system is inhabited by which race, so when I'm trying to raise an army I don't have to click every planet in the entire galaxy to find which ones are inhabited by a certain race--a simple icon or just a word would alleviate this issue. I don't want to have to zoom in a search every time.

Don't say "control groups." Setting a certain asset to a button isn't enough--not when you have 100 worlds.

Simple fix--icon it.

Also at the strategic level, the process of merging/separating and setting rally points for fleets is buggy. When I'm at war, i need to effectively divide and conquer, or when the situation calls for it rally my fleet into an unstoppable force.


Sometimes my fleet disobeys direct orders to merge and I can't abide any acts of mutiny. Sometimes my fleets will go idle, and I can't tolerate any dereliction of duty. If ships were traveling toward a rally point, but the rally point is lost the ships become idle--the captain declares nap time when I need him in battle. I don't know why they cant just set reset course for the nearest rally point or fleet. My map becomes flooded with lost ships, waiting for me to re-issue orders.

We need the merge button to have a setting to auto-merge with all ships in system, or some way to set this to a default policy to an empire default. Which brings me to another issue--why do I always have to tell my fleets what my policies are whenever they are created or separated? Why can't we set empire-wide defaults so that every ship and every fleet will be on attack ready status or engage in full planetary bombardments without being having to be told?

The fleet management interface also gets flooded with ships in in transit to the fleets they're merging to. When you're producing ships at 16 different starports and they're all zipping this way and that way, I found myself wishing I could filter the list or there was some other function to make fleet management less of a pain. I'd like to see "filter by" options such as "idle ships", "ships in orbit", "fleets >10K", "fleets in enemy territory" or anything to make management easier by not flooding my display with idle, lost, or in transit "fleets" that are actually a single ship.

Also, on the subject to planetary bombardments, sometimes a system will have more than one planet, but three different fleets will all bomb the same planet instead of spreading out to bomb all the others in the system.

Space combat tactics are where I'd like the have more micro-management options, but ironically, that's where the game is lacking. The only option is retreat. I cant set behaviors for certain ship types or fleets, they simply engage and zoom toward the enemy full speed. You can't maneuver or split fleets mid combat.

Military stations have some issues as well. I'm grateful that these have a map icon, but require too much mico-management to set up. Construction ships can build mining and research stations and frontier outposts from the map view, but not military stations? There is also no option to set your sectors to a military/defensive posture--only economic variations. My sectors, no matter their resources, will not build military defense stations on their own.

Military stations also have too large of a dead-zone radius. I understand the "balancing" effect of this dead-zone, so that you can't stack too many fortresses together...but why? Isn't the balancing effect that they cost resources to maintain? It's space, by the way, (it isn't flat) with plenty of room to build whatever I want wherever I want. Nothing is stopping me from building 10 fortresses around a world except the game telling me to "be fair."

Well I have news for you--life isn't fair. Wars are fought by seizing advantages and exploiting weaknesses, stacking the odds in your favor or crippling the enemy so they don't stand a chance. Instead, my admirals are more concerned with fairness. "This world is too fortified, its defenses too tight. The enemy won't be able to break through easily, so we need to spread these stations out and give them a fighting chance." What?

While on the subject of military defense stations, I'd like to be able to move them. Why not? Really, what is stopping me from moving them? You might have built them at what was once a strategic location, but as your empire expanded or as the galactic map changed it is needed elsewhere. You could deconstruct and reconstruct, but that's a waste of time and resources, and subject to the problems described above.

Stellaris stations are strictly defensive in function. Can we get OFFENSIVE stations? Super-weapons?


#4 Armies, Attachments, (and varieties)

I have another strategic issue. Armies have an "attachment" feature, but to apply an attachment you need to go through an externally tedious process. You need the build the army, select each army individually (while still planet-side) and then manually click to add an attachment. When you're raising multiple armies across and entire galaxy, this feature is far too tedious to bother with, so despite the advantages I simply ignored it--I'm not wasting my time clicking individual every army.

The fix is simple. When building an army, just incorporate the attachment feature at the army creation stage, not after. Just click "build with attachment" or add another army type to the build option list. Simple.

Give armies the option to upgrade too. I'd like to see more done with them, like selecting weapon/armor types, or other features that can be added. Army policies and tactics would also be a great feature (set armies to liberate slave populations or auto purge). I want my troops to feel more real than little green circles. Speaking of armies, I talked about space defenses, but there are not enough options for planetary surface defenses.

Also, if the planet is full and still raising any army the "excess" troops automatically go into orbit.

(related issue--planets have a maximum troop limit? I understand this from a balancing point of view, but really, what's stopping me from building or landing a massive force on a planet? Why can't the balance simply be resource consumption, like food! If I want to devote a planet for the sole purpose of troop training and residence, I should be able to stack up one farms to feed them and everything is fine.)


The army feature as a whole is actually a fantastic feature and I'm happy that it's an important element of the game, but it is rather lackluster. I think more attachment types and greater varieties in the types of armies would be a nice feature. For example, I'd like to add tanks or giant robots or siege equipment. "Army" is very generic. Maybe we can add things in the attachment slot, add more attachment slots, and make the army system more dynamic. Massing troops and winning with numbers alone can get boring.

Also, invading one small force at a time, trickling them down in small numbers, is STUPID. Who does that? Idiots do--that's who. I'm not going to send my troops single-file toward a firing line. If I have 20 armies in orbit, I'm landing all god damn 20 of them to overwhelm the enemy, I don't give a damn about fighting fair.

If the defenders want a better chance, why not give them the option for anti-air so they can shoot down drop pods, or make the defense options more dynamic and intuitive? Move the military buildings to the army tab so that its all on one page (still occupying a slot on the surface cap) and give us more options. Let the empire build fortifications because if you leave structure slots to the AI they won't build shield generators or other military structures because there is no military setting for sectors.

#5 Rebel Scum

Rebel factions are impossible to eliminate. In 60 hours, I never quelled one rebellion despite my best efforts. I would adopt social welfare programs, information quarantine, propaganda broadcast, employ re-education campaigns, and even genetically modify species to become conformists, suppressed them and integrated them in the factions tab--I even had the strategic resource to pacify them--I did EVERYTHING I could.

There was no peaceful solution.


Factions remained a thorn in my side throughout my galactic conquest. This was a significant issue. All the time and resources I spent on this was a massive waste of time and resources.

Now, I had to do some research online--surely I was not doing something right. I had to figure out how to end a faction. I could get them down to 1 pop but they would always exist. The consensus I found was the purge them. Well, that was what I originally wanted to do at first, but because of my traits and government type purging was not an option.

(related issue--I am aware there are ways to change your government type and some policies, but even doing so, some options remain unavailable. I could never unlock the option to purge. So, why can't we change our policies to conflict with a trait or government type? It can happen in reality. Sometimes in certain situations, such as a rampant rebellion, actions must be taken that maybe unethical, maybe even a civil war, all against the laws the laws the empire has set. Why can't I change my policies to purge, albeit at some cost or penalty?)

Peace was not an option, but rather than purge shouldn't there be some alternative to genocide? Why can't I get the military to intervene? A rebellion can't be tolerated and must be quelled, and if they persist, that calls for more drastic measures. Why not a planetary edict like martial law to shut down rebellions, and/or an empire edict to strictly enforce compliance? Suppression should be the answer but in reality it isn't. We need more options.

#6 Diplomacy (or not)
I didn't deal much with diplomacy and trade not because I had no interest, but it was a rather barren feature. Sure, you could interact with species diplomatically, and there were some options, but I was shocked that forming an alliance or "federation" was a technology that had to be researched. What? That had me scratching my head. I never researched it.

Trade had so few options. I attempted a few resource and star chart exchanges, sometimes a research agreement (which I still don't understand how it works). There wasn't much there. Diplomacy needs many more options, especially since its a defining feature of the game.


We should be able to exchange researched technology through diplomacy. Again, it happens all the time in reality. This way, we have other options rather than watching the clock as the paint dries. This would encourage diplomacy and making friends. Instead of only political options like war and peace, and very limited trade, a whole new aspect of the game would open up. I would actually have incentive to stay on an empire's good side if they have tech I want and we could become better economic partners. Trading resources is bland. You could also trade slaves.

In the diplomacy window, it would be nice to make demands without going to war. Why not encourage a peaceful alternative? Instead of "war goals" why not "peace goals" as well? With systems recently acquired or conquered, instead of purging or integrating the population, I wish there was an option to deport them to the empire they belong to. The more options, the better.

#7 Parting Shots
For the most part, I enjoyed my experience with Stellaris, but I have a few more miscellaneous words on issues and improvements.

Adding (or removing) systems to a sector can be buggy. Sometimes I accidentally click the wrong system and take it out of the sector, costing influence. This mistake happened to me far too many times and I hate losing resource over a system being buggy (sometimes I had to click a few times.) If you click on a system, and it would be removed from a system, give us a warning first that says "are you sure you?"

(Side note: my sectors never produced influence, even though I saw it potentially could in the sectors tab. I'm not sure about this one, but It confused me.)

Another issue was that automatically surveying systems was a technology, not a default order. Why? Auto "assist research" should be an option too. Adding the same feature of auto-building to construction ships would eliminate some frustration. Planets need an auto-upgrade structure option--I hate forgetting about surface tiles and having to check for upgrades years after the upgrade was researched.

The science missions could be very dull. I lost interest in them very quickly. And I couldn't get my science ships to automatically investigate some missions so I just forgot about them and didn't care. I would like to see the science missions become more relevant and eventful, or exciting, or have some impact or result. As they are now, I lost interest. The chains never went anywhere meaningful. I would like the science missions to play a large role in the game, not as something tedious, but something fun. If the science missions remain as they are, I want an auto-disregard feature for all the alerts that keep popping up and stopping the game.

Also, can we get a faster setting than "fastest"? Later in the game, some things like research, teraforming, genetic-modification, and a great many things can take FOREVER. It was so incredibly boring to wait for stupid 10 year truces to end or watch the research bar.

Some things in Stellaris made me rethink the phase "slow as molasses" (I have newfound respect for how fast molasses moves.)


16991734_10208831609215061_5085258577063866518_o.jpg


In six days, I conquered the galaxy, and on the seventh day, I rest...

 
Last edited:

henzington

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If I had to guess I would say that you colonized by a xenophobic fallen empire which will cleanse your planets near their borders.

Wiz, the project lead, has stated that the war goals will be updated in the future.

The option to form a federation is being changed to a tradition in the new dlc.
 
Last edited:

Princess Stabbity

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Wow congratulations, you had your Stellaris rite of passage in your first game! XD

Spawning next to the Xenophobic Fallen Empire is always memorable. It's very rare but it will pretty much happen to everyone once or twice. If you scout properly before colonising you can keep things under control but yah usually it's a good reason to restart the game.

You were completely wrong to turn off FEs on your second run tho. There's a lot of content attached to them and lategame without Fallen Empires is rather bland. If you'd given them a chance, you'd have discovered there's actually 4 different types (each with an Awakened state) and they're not hostile unless you provoke them. In fact sometimes they can ask you to do quests for them and even send you gifts if they like you.

In any case, if you want to face any kind of challenge in the lategame, you need FEs to be around. The Crises are currently underpowered and too easy to deal with so awakening FEs are as close as the game gets to having a final boss.
 
Last edited:

Amaror

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Concerning the Fallen Empire things must have been buggy for you because they are never outright hostile to you, not even xenophobic ones.
Fallen Empires always establish communications immediatly and generally don't do much in the early game if you don't piss them off. And even if you piss them off you should get an ultimatum basically. The Empire will call you up, make a demand and you can accept it or deny it. If you accept it you automatically do the demand (Often abandoning a certain planet) and get a slight malus for 10 years. If you don't accept it they attack you and stomp you into the ground if you are not strong enough. So, yeah, accept their demands and you should be fine in the early game. Here's a short list of how to piss of fallen Empires:
Xenophobic empire - Settle near them. Just keep a few system free between their space and your planets.
Spiritual empire - Settle holy worlds. They have the "holy" modifier and are always gaia worlds. I know it's tempting but make sure you can beat the FE beforehand.
I don't really know what pisses off materialistic and xenophile empires at the moment. Of the top of my head I am guessing it's researching dangerous technology and purging the xenos (Those babies), but I can't say for sure.
That being said they do have the chance to awaken and try to conquer the galaxy, which in my opinion almost always happens way too early before the player can be expected to deal with it, even if you are lightyears ahead of every other empire on the map.
 

zukodark

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Some of your issues represent more your own lack of knowledge about the game rather than problems with it. I do however agree with some other issues, such as with armies (though that has been acknowledged by the team).
 

General Retreat

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I certainly agree with a lot of the points raised by the OP and happily it seems the devs do as well, because a lot of your concerns have been addressed ready for the next patch/DLC. Have a browse through the pinned developer diary thread to have a look at some of the planned changes. I would warn you though, reading about Utopia is liable to cause unhealthy amounts of hype and impatient dissatisfaction with the game in it's current state. :D

A few tips that might be of use for future replays:

1) There are two types of fallen empires that will proactively attack you before they awaken. Spiritualists tend to have a ring of 'Holy' gaia worlds around their space and will murder with prejudice anyone who settles on them. Xenophobes also demand an unsettled band of space around their territory and will purge any colonies that infringe on it. Usually both will settle for removing the offending colonies and assassinating your leader.

2) Nationalist factions can actually be entirely eradicated through Machiavellian manipulation. Basically, if the faction gets to 100% support, an armed rebellion will occur. If you then crush the rebellion, the nationalists will be entirely defeated and you're free to ignore them in future. Think of it as allowing useful idiots to expose the rebel base and then crushing their leadership and hopes in one fell swoop. :p

3) You can actually drop an unlimited number of attacking troops on a planet, it's only defenders that are capped. Other than that, I agree with what you've said. Ground combat needs some more work. The latest news is that in the next patch you'll be able to garrison as many units as the planet size, which is nice.


As an aside, I'd also recommend you look into the modding scene. AlphaMod is very good, and there are a number of others that also address some of the points you've mentioned.
 

Gyrvendal

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You have found pretty much every glaring issue with the game in a single play-through. That's pretty impressive! As others have mentioned you should try another game with Fallen Empires on. They can considerably spice up the late game. Also be sure to pick a different set of ethics as that can considerably alter your playstyle. Collectivist and Individualist are especially interesting while materialist and militarist/pacifist are rather bland.
Did you run into any crises in your game? There are late game crises that can spawn big fleets of invading xenos from other galaxies/dimensions which also break the tedium of late game somewhat.
One last thing : Stellaris is meant to be played with mods. There are hundreds of mods on the steam workshop for every taste. They add technologies, ship types, skins, new gameplay systems, governments, pretty much anything you can think of and then some more. Mods improve many of the issues of Stellaris, although not all of them.
 

Kat Tsun

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FWIW, "fastest" is the "no brakes" setting. It goes as fast as your PC can make the game run. If you want it to move faster than that, try setting the ticks per turn higher, but I'm not sure how much that would help.
 
Last edited:

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Kat Tsun

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General Retreat

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Superkargoeren isn't Wiz, he's someone else.

Wiz said as such in the livestream, as is mentioned in that thread. It does seem to be a slightly contentious issue, though.
My bad, got the names mixed up. I guess it's an open verdict in that case. From my own experience Stellaris using fastest doesn't seem to be maxing out my CPU though.
 

Delpheus

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You were completely wrong to turn off FEs on your second run tho. There's a lot of content attached to them and lategame without Fallen Empires is rather bland. If you'd given them a chance, you'd have discovered there's actually 4 different types (each with an Awakened state) and they're not hostile unless you provoke them. In fact sometimes they can ask you to do quests for them and even send you gifts if they like you.

Wow, now I feel like I missed out on a fun element of the game. I was just too traumatized by my "independence day" experience. Once these updates everyone keeps talking about comes out, I'll have to turn them on.

I still like my idea of exploring parts of the galaxy where a vast fallen empire once was though.

Concerning the Fallen Empire things must have been buggy for you because they are never outright hostile to you, not even xenophobic ones.
Fallen Empires always establish communications immediatly and generally don't do much in the early game if you don't piss them off. And even if you piss them off you should get an ultimatum basically. The Empire will call you up, make a demand and you can accept it or deny it.

They called me up to say "YOU'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!" and I seriously had one response, which was to raise up my fists and say "Let's do this..."

I didn't know if it was the way I set up my traits and government, or whatever it was, but there was no option for any form of diplomacy. If it was the way I set up my race, you should never be limited to only one option...

I certainly agree with a lot of the points raised by the OP and happily it seems the devs do as well, because a lot of your concerns have been addressed ready for the next patch/DLC. Have a browse through the pinned developer diary thread to have a look at some of the planned changes. I would warn you though, reading about Utopia is liable to cause unhealthy amounts of hype and impatient dissatisfaction with the game in it's current state. :D

That is exciting. I'm glad to know the devs are addressing some of this issues. I'll wait until this expansion before playing again and hopefully have a better experience.

2) Nationalist factions can actually be entirely eradicated through Machiavellian manipulation. Basically, if the faction gets to 100% support, an armed rebellion will occur. If you then crush the rebellion, the nationalists will be entirely defeated and you're free to ignore them in future. Think of it as allowing useful idiots to expose the rebel base and then crushing their leadership and hopes in one fell swoop. :p

That is one solution, but I should have the ability to resolve it my way. It shouldn't always come to war. I may be ruthless when it comes to conquering my enemies, but when it comes to my citizens I actually care about their lives and I want a peaceful resolution. I want an option that doesn't involve me killing my own misguided people.

And if I did want military intervention, I'd want it to be kept covert, and avoid a full-scale war if at all possible. I don't want to just let the rebel hives fester until they all must die.

The features they do have for suppression and improving happiness don't work--I think it's a bug.

You have found pretty much every glaring issue with the game in a single play-through. That's pretty impressive! As others have mentioned you should try another game with Fallen Empires on. They can considerably spice up the late game. Also be sure to pick a different set of ethics as that can considerably alter your playstyle. Collectivist and Individualist are especially interesting while materialist and militarist/pacifist are rather bland.
Did you run into any crises in your game? There are late game crises that can spawn big fleets of invading xenos from other galaxies/dimensions which also break the tedium of late game somewhat.

Is that impressive? lol

I don't want my entire experience of galactic conquest over the course of centuries to be defined by traits I picked at the start of the game. I know you can change some things here and there, but it takes way too long, and some things are essentially permanent. This, in my opinion, is far too limiting. Making changes should be an easier process, so you have better way to keep playing the way you want to without having to restart the game...

I also turned off crises after my experience with fallen empires. Since I was learning, my reasoning was I didn't want to keep restarting because of situations I didn't know how to deal with yet (or couldn't deal with at all).

For my next play though, once these updates arrive, I'll turn those features back on to see what it's like.

-----

Thank you all for you enlightening comments. You've all be very helpful and encouraging. This community is great.
 

Amaror

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They called me up to say "YOU'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!" and I seriously had one response, which was to raise up my fists and say "Let's do this..."

I didn't know if it was the way I set up my traits and government, or whatever it was, but there was no option for any form of diplomacy. If it was the way I set up my race, you should never be limited to only one option...

That's a straight up war declaration then. Did they do any communication with you before? As I said they normally should send some sort of ultimatum before declaring war. If they didn't then your game was bugged. Maybe try to do another run with FE's on, they are a bit challenge, but normally not THAT big.
 

Princess Stabbity

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It's also possible you may have been busy when the FE declared their ultimatum and you didn't respond to it in time which auto-declined it. It happens to me with trade deals all the time. The AI keeps spamming me with defensive pact requests so much that I rarely pay attention to diplomatic communiques and sometimes miss the important ones.