Improved Lowlands Map

[Mattymooz]

NOTE : Coming soon to the Steam Workshop : http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=451040975​

After my vision of a better England was so well recieved, I'm just going to start doing other places (mainly in Europe) that I think deserve more better provinces.

Please note that the idea of these changes is too add depth to an area and make it more accurate, but not to go completely indepth in certain areas with tiny provinces. They still need to be clickable and a reasonable size. I'm not going to make an area a mass of utrechts and maltas.

So, this time my focus was the Lowlands. Here is what I would change if I was Paradox:

The changes added a total of 5 new provinces. This resulted in 1 new province for Flanders, 1 for Holland, 1 for Brabant, 1 for Gelre and 1 for Utrecht.

I haven't added any new cultures, but here is what the outline of dutch/flemish looks like:

I have also changed the Base Tax a bit. Overall there has been a fair amount of Base Tax added, to fully represent the power of this region. Some provinces got buffed and extra provinces got added, making it very wealthy. There have also been several trade modifiers added to the area as well

Again I will be uploading it to the workshop soon, so you guys will be able to play with it. Any amendments would be great. My expertise is not in this area of the world so it could be horribly wrong!

And yes, Germany is pixelated, it hasn't been fully finished yet and I don't wanna show it off till it's done!

 

[Metz]

What about splitting Den Haag and Rotterdam? You got to add Groningen and Drenthe.

 

[Fluffy_Fishy]

What about splitting Den Haag and Rotterdam? You got to add Groningen and Drenthe.

It might endanger the provinces into becoming unclickable which is a trap a lot of map modders fall into.

 

[Metz]

It might endanger the provinces into becoming unclickable which is a trap a lot of map modders fall into.

There is enough space there to do so.

 

[Fluffy_Fishy]

There is enough space there to do so.

Groningen and Drenthe, yes theres space but The hague is very close to rotterdam and it might look a little squashed.

 

[Mattymooz]

There is enough space there to do so.

I may be able to add groningen or drenthe, but not both. Rotterdam there is no chance and wasn't that large in 1444 anyways

 

[Metz]

I may be able to add groningen or drenthe, but not both. Rotterdam there is no chance and wasn't that large in 1444 anyways

Chip off part of western Utrecht and part of southern Amsterdam and take part of the northern area of the other province and call it Rotterdam. The rest can be Den Haag.

 

[Twoflower]

I may be able to add groningen or drenthe, but not both. Rotterdam there is no chance and wasn't that large in 1444 anyways

If you do, add Groningen. It was one of the seven provinces and it would solve the problem of Friesland always being appointed a free city.

 

[Mattymooz]

If you do, add Groningen. It was one of the seven provinces and it would solve the problem of Friesland always being appointed a free city.

Thats already been solved by strazbourg! Although it could become a theocracy

 

[Zylathas]

I have one problem with this map and that is the province of Roermond. In real life Roermond lies in the province Limburg and not where you placed it. I would rather name that province Venlo or Tilburg, but certainly not Roermond.

And if you think it is, can you tell me why you actually named it Roermond? As currently it just looks off to me.

 

[Mattymooz]

I have one problem with this map and that is the province of Roermond. In real life Roermond lies in the province Limburg and not where you placed it. I would rather name that province Venlo or Tilburg, but certainly not Roermond.

And if you think it is, can you tell me why you actually named it Roermond? As currently it just looks off to me.

Because Roermond was the capital of the southern half of Guelders (which was actually an exclave but was too small to fit on the map). How far out the border is it as Roermond is definitely the right name for the province so if I can just slightly expand the border of the province to get it inside then that would be perfect (and more accurate)

 

[Zylathas]

Because Roermond was the capital of the southern half of Guelders (which was actually an exclave but was too small to fit on the map). How far out the border is it as Roermond is definitely the right name for the province so if I can just slightly expand the border of the province to get it inside then that would be perfect (and more accurate)

if I got my map of the lowlands right (well I live there.. but compared to then) I would say the following. Make the province touch Loon and I think that yellowish province under it, that's cleve. I based it on this map : http://members.home.nl/tetrode/Geuzen/Parma1.jpg.

On top of that I would move the city inside 's hertogenbosch also a bit more north.. but with you changing the province of roermond you will have to do it anyway .

And then another suggestion, why not call the province north-limburg (with the other province south limburg) with capital of roermond? That's generally how we call those area's today. It perhaps contains some parts that aren't Limburgian right now, but it consists of mostly limburg so I would deem north-Limburg an appropiate province name. I would generally deem the seperation of those provinces for north and south limburg appropiate simply because there are differences between the parts even now. It might be one province, but it certainly has a north-south rivalism even today.

Then another major-suggestion (but I dunno how you and others stand it) perhaps Loon, north and south limburg (and perhaps some germans close to the borders like Cleves) should have the limburg culture in the german or dutch culture group. Simply because Limburgers are very close to germans then they are to dutch, especially in terms of language.

 

[Twoflower]

Limburgish culture would make a lot of sense, and could cover Berg, a possible Jülich province and arguably Aachen (Aachen is somewhat iffy; if we go only by language, it should remain Rhenish, since the actual city's dialect is somewhat close to that of Cologne, however, if cultural, economic and political ties are considered, making it Limburgish is quite justified - the city was originally subject to the Duchy of Jülich, which is part of the Limburgish continuum). Introducing Limburgish should probably go along with (finally) adding a Frisian culture.

 

[Zylathas]

Limburgish culture would make a lot of sense, and could cover Berg, a possible Jülich province and arguably Aachen (Aachen is somewhat iffy; if we go only by language, it should remain Rhenish, since the actual city's dialect is somewhat close to that of Cologne, however, if cultural, economic and political ties are considered, making it Limburgish is quite justified - the city was originally subject to the Duchy of Jülich, which is part of the Limburgish continuum). Introducing Limburgish should probably go along with (finally) adding a Frisian culture.

I am not sure if Frisian would work, simply because of how few provinces would be Frisian. But I think limburgian has enough options to be worthwhile.

 

[Mattymooz]

UPDATE:
- Redrew borders in Limburg area
- Added Limburger Culture
- Added Frisian Culture

Spoiler: Images

 

[Zylathas]

UPDATE:
- Redrew borders in Limburg area
- Added Limburger Culture
- Added Frisian Culture

Spoiler: Images

Keep up the good work. Just a quick question, which culture group did you place them in?

I want to add one suggestion, I think the province of Jülich should certainly be Limburger aswell, I am looking at the dutch wikipedia and there it says Jülich can be seen as a predecessor of the modern Limburg province. It also has some parts of it right now.

Including of that Wikipedia it says Jülich language is very close to the Limburg version too. For that reason I think there is enough reason to warrant making it Limburger aswell.

And I know I keep bothering Ya, I have done some looking into the name for the Roermond area. Apperently back at that age they called it "opper Gelre" so that might be a more fitting name instead of the modern "north Limburg"

Anyhow, as I am finding it very interesting currently to check into the subject I have begun to do some research, if I can perhaps find some good additions to what I above said I will let you know.

 

[Zylathas]

Ok some more suggestions, perhaps to also draw some better borders.

Split Loon into the provinces of Loon and Hoorne, keep both Limburger and make the capital of Hoorne Horn. This will allow some better dutch/flemish borders.

As I said earlier, make Jülich limburg aswell, it contains many parts that are important limburger cities right now and for earlier said reasons like language and being a predessor of modern limburg. Although maybe it would be even better if the province was split in two with one being Limburger and one being Rhenish, this province might be too small however for your liking. If you do this, the province of Born with the capital of Sittard would do.

But that's all I have.. Change one would be nice, especially some more dynamics in the lowlands.

 

[Mattymooz]

So, something like this? (As apparently Dusseldorf, the capital of Berg, was limburger so this was the best way to get good looking culture borders )

 

[Zylathas]

Can you get a closer up map? I am having issues seeing it properly haha. Also keep in mind I added some new suggestions, in the menatime I am also looking up more information. Looking for a good map of the Netherlands at that age, I don't want to make changes too modern-influenced it has to be have a real historical reason ofc.

 

[Mattymooz]

Light Blue -> Flemish
Pink -> Wallonian
Green -> Dutch
Magenta -> Frisian
Purple -> Hanovarian
Blue -> Rheinish
Yellow -> Limburger

I don't really want too add any extra provinces though, sorry D: They all so small

 

[Zylathas]

Light Blue -> Flemish
Pink -> Wallonian
Green -> Dutch
Magenta -> Frisian
Purple -> Hanovarian
Blue -> Rheinish
Yellow -> Limburger

I don't really want too add any extra provinces though, sorry D: They all so small

Not too sure about Cologne & the provinces next to it, I do not know enough of that area to say much about it. But looks good enough culture wise! Already quite happy you considered the Limburger culture, as I think it's a good addition.

And ok, can deal with that. As I agree, it has a lot of provinces for a small area.