Improved Lowlands Map

[Mattymooz]

NOTE : Coming soon to the Steam Workshop : http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=451040975​

After my vision of a better England was so well recieved, I'm just going to start doing other places (mainly in Europe) that I think deserve more better provinces.

Please note that the idea of these changes is too add depth to an area and make it more accurate, but not to go completely indepth in certain areas with tiny provinces. They still need to be clickable and a reasonable size. I'm not going to make an area a mass of utrechts and maltas.

So, this time my focus was the Lowlands. Here is what I would change if I was Paradox:

The changes added a total of 5 new provinces. This resulted in 1 new province for Flanders, 1 for Holland, 1 for Brabant, 1 for Gelre and 1 for Utrecht.

I haven't added any new cultures, but here is what the outline of dutch/flemish looks like:

I have also changed the Base Tax a bit. Overall there has been a fair amount of Base Tax added, to fully represent the power of this region. Some provinces got buffed and extra provinces got added, making it very wealthy. There have also been several trade modifiers added to the area as well

Again I will be uploading it to the workshop soon, so you guys will be able to play with it. Any amendments would be great. My expertise is not in this area of the world so it could be horribly wrong!

And yes, Germany is pixelated, it hasn't been fully finished yet and I don't wanna show it off till it's done!

 

[Mattius]

Gelre looks a little... Mangled.

 

[ShadowCammy]

I like it, but as Mattius said, they look a bit mangled.
But really, I don't see it as a bad thing. In real life, borders weren't all nice and smooth. They were jagged and abstract. It adds a more... realistic feeling, at least for me.

 

[Pigeoncount]

I'm trying to focus on your map changes, but the pixelation just makes me think there's something obscene with your map. A small suggestion, it'd be nice to have before and after shots, as well. As I'm not a particular genius on the history of that region, I can't say much. I would say that I feel the norther border of Brussels is oddly smoothly cut, not sure if it's inaccurate or just my eye, though.

 

[Maria Theresa]

I'm trying to focus on your map changes, but the pixelation just makes me think there's something obscene with your map.

Damn asian porn...

I do think Netherlands and Portugal could use some more land, especially Portugal. I like to play most European (Colonial) nations as historically as possible, for example not taking any provinces in Europe as Portugal and not expansing outside Low Countries region as Netherlands but that can be bit boring because there's not many provinces to get.

I don't mind the look of Gelre mushroom since it's divided into 2 provinces now.

 

[Vaximillian]

I don't mind the look of Gelre mushroom

Can't unsee that. Thank you very much.

 

[Mattymooz]

Gelre looks a little... Mangled.

Gelre historically was a mushroom, not a lot I can do about it

I'm trying to focus on your map changes, but the pixelation just makes me think there's something obscene with your map. A small suggestion, it'd be nice to have before and after shots, as well. As I'm not a particular genius on the history of that region, I can't say much. I would say that I feel the norther border of Brussels is oddly smoothly cut, not sure if it's inaccurate or just my eye, though.

That area apparently was cut wuite smoothly. This is a map I used to get the vague outline of everything. I then backed this up using other historical sources for each particular region. And sorry about the pixelation, I just wanted to make sure that this thread was about the lowlands and not the stuff I have changed in North Germany. :/

Spoiler: Historical Basis

Damn asian porn...

I do think Netherlands and Portugal could use some more land, especially Portugal. I like to play most European (Colonial) nations as historically as possible, for example not taking any provinces in Europe as Portugal and not expansing outside Low Countries region as Netherlands but that can be bit boring because there's not many provinces to get.

I don't mind the look of Gelre mushroom since it's divided into 2 provinces now.

I already have done Portugal https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/improved-iberia-map.858917/
And yeah, gelre mushroom looks weird bus is technically historically accurate.

 

[Dirk1978]

Below is a link to a map of The Low Countries in the late 14th century, a link to the map of The Low Countries from 1556 to 1648, a link to history of The Netherlands and a link to major Dutch rivers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Netherlands#/media/Fileolitical_map_of_the_Low_Countries_(1350)-NL.svg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Countries
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Netherlands#History
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lijst_van_rivieren_in_Nederland#/media/File:Map_of_the_Netherlands.svg

 

[talilu]

I hope you are going to make Cleves Dutch

 

[Mattymooz]

Below is a link to a map of The Low Countries in the late 14th century, a link to the map of The Low Countries from 1556 to 1648, a link to history of The Netherlands and a link to major Dutch rivers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Netherlands#/media/Fileolitical_map_of_the_Low_Countries_(1350)-NL.svg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Countries
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Netherlands#History
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lijst_van_rivieren_in_Nederland#/media/File:Map_of_the_Netherlands.svg

I actually used the first map in creating this

I hope you are going to make Cleves Dutch

Why would I do that? Everything I have heard about cleves is was a pretty German state, one of the states that was part of the whole westphalian area conflict (Kologne, Julich etc.)

 

[talilu]

Why would I do that? Everything I have heard about cleves is was a pretty German state, one of the states that was part of the whole westphalian area conflict (Kologne, Julich etc.)

I trusted the Wiki on that and seen some people suggest it to be that way at the other lowlands thread:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleve#Language_and_dialect

 

[Mattymooz]

I trusted the Wiki on that and seen some people suggest it to be that way at the other lowlands thread:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleve#Language_and_dialect

That would be the case if the country was called Kleef (as in the dutch way of spelling it) but it isn't. I have kept it as westphalian as I said previously it was involved with all the other westphalian states heavily and because Geldern (the province called Roermond in game and the place that Gelre was named after) is definitely german, so it would look weird with some bits being german and dutch. I dunno, I guess if people want it then sure but I think it would look and feel weird

 

[talilu]

Since it's a zone which cultures overlap, both Dutch and Westphalian will fit. Do as you wish

 

[Dirk1978]

I actually used the first map in creating this

Nice!

 

[Twoflower]

Why would I do that? Everything I have heard about cleves is was a pretty German state, one of the states that was part of the whole westphalian area conflict (Kologne, Julich etc.)

Well, the dialect of Kleve was called "Deutschniederländisch" (German Dutch) until the 19th century and written with Dutch, not German grammar and orthography, and standard Dutch, not standard German was used as a language of courts, administration and church. Dutch influence on the Low Rhine vanished only under Prussian pressure in the 19th century.
The state of Kleve was firmly within the political and cultural Burgundian sphere of influence up to its split between Palatinate-Neuburg and Brandenburg-Prussia and the 17th century. Kleve was a staunch ally of Philipp the Good and Charles the Bold, Duke Johann I was educated in Brussels and a cadet dynasty ended up holding Nevers-Rethel. Later on, Kleve-Jülich-Berg inherited the Duchy of Gelre in 1539.
Also, what needs to be kept in mind is that in 1444 and up to the Dutch revolt there was no real border between the Lowlands and Germany, but a continuum. It is rather by historical accident than due to any preexisting political or cultural condition that Gelre, Friesland, Limburg and Utrecht ended up as parts of the Burgundian and later Hapsburg Netherlands while Kleve, Cologne, Ostfriesland and Jülich did not. Had Charles the Bold lived longer, it is absolutely conceivable that he would have somehow integrated the Duchy of Kleve, which in many respects could be considered a Burgundian vassal (speaking in EU4 game terms) in the second half of the 15th century, and he actually did try to conquer the Archbishopric of Cologne in 1474.

 

[Sir Iain]

I actually used the first map in creating this

Very nice! It's great when hours of work are not wasted.
(I drew the danm thing)

 

[Grand Historian]

Weren't you the guy who complained a while back about how he was tired of everyone asking for changes to the map?

I agree with most that it looks mangled, but I don't really care about the shape or appearance of provinces. More provinces is more provinces, depth and historicity regardless.

Also, this belongs in the User Mods sub-thread, not the Suggestions thread. Unless if you're suggesting that Paradox should follow your example.

 

[Mattymooz]

Weren't you the guy who complained a while back about how he was tired of everyone asking for changes to the map?

I agree with most that it looks mangled, but I don't really care about the shape or appearance of provinces. More provinces is more provinces, depth and historicity regardless.

Also, this belongs in the User Mods sub-thread, not the Suggestions thread. Unless if you're suggesting that Paradox should follow your example.

I was the guy complaining that people were ranting on dev diaries rather than being constructive and suggesting improvements in a dedicated thread that people could discuss it in.

And yes it is a suggestion. I first created the mod just to illustrate the improvements I would have liked to the Great Britain map, but then people wanted Ireland doing and then wanted to play with it themselves so it has kind of turned into a mod that os just a compilation of my suggested changes or 'fixes' as I call them considering the size of some provinces (minsk and poitou specifically)

 

[Grand Historian]

I was the guy complaining that people were ranting on dev diaries rather than being constructive and suggesting improvements in a dedicated thread that people could discuss it in.

And yes it is a suggestion. I first created the mod just to illustrate the improvements I would have liked to the Great Britain map, but then people wanted Ireland doing and then wanted to play with it themselves so it has kind of turned into a mod that os just a compilation of my suggested changes or 'fixes' as I call them considering the size of some provinces (minsk and poitou specifically)

Well, it's not like everyone can mod the map. Granted, it's not like many tried the alternative of just writing a list with sparse description, either.

And you've done a good job of it, from what I've been able to see. Though I do suggest you put that these are suggestions as disclaimers.

 

[Mattymooz]

Well, it's not like everyone can mod the map. Granted, it's not like many tried the alternative of just writing a list with sparse description, either.

And you've done a good job of it, from what I've been able to see. Though I do suggest you put that these are suggestions as disclaimers.

Tbh, I don't expect them to mod it, I would be fine if they just did a quick paint.net map or even just a list of the new provonces they want to see.

Anyways, before we get do off-topic......