Improved Anatolia Map

[Mattymooz]

NOTE : Coming soon to the Steam Workshop : http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=451040975​

After my vision of a better England was so well recieved, I'm just going to start doing other places (mainly in Europe) that I think deserve more better provinces.

Please note that the idea of these changes is too add depth to an area and make it more accurate, but not to go completely indepth in certain areas with tiny provinces. They still need to be clickable and a reasonable size. I'm not going to make an area a mass of utrechts and maltas.

So, this time my focus was Anatolia. Here is what I would change if I was Paradox:

The changes added a total of 8 new provinces. This resulted in 1 province for Ramazan, 1 for Karaman and 6 for the Ottomans. Please note that my reasoning for redrawing anatolia even though it is not part of Europe is A) to give the ottomans a buff and B) to make the change in the size of the provinces to be less obvious (at least IMO, it is less obvious that provinces are larger compared to ones next to it)

I haven't added any cultures, but would love to break up the giant turkish blob, so any suggestions would be great!

I have also fiddled with the Base Tax for the area a bit so that the area has been buffed to stay in line with the slightly stronger PLC and Hungary

Again I will be uploading it to the workshop soon, so you guys will be able to play with it. Any amendments would be great. My expertise is not in this area of the world so it could be horribly wrong!

 

[Kiyant]

Nomadic Turk culture?

That is a perfect idea because there was a difference between the "normal" Anatolian Turkish culture to the nomadic Yörük culture (which should be represented)

 

[Vaximillian]

B.Orleannais & burgundy is another such problem I would make Burgundy white. (fits better with the flag) aswell. (and changing orleannais will make it so it does not fit that flag anymore)

Burgundy must be, y'know, burgundy.

 

[Zylathas]

Burgundy must be, y'know, burgundy.

Yeah.. thought about that later aswell.

 

[Zylathas]

Also; I have done some more testing, France is doing what it does best as usual.. if it exists.

 

[Mattymooz]

Also; I have done some more testing, France is doing what it does best as usual.. if it exists.

Awesome. In the next update Burgundy, England and France are all historical rivals too so that should help!

Also, I'm looking at something like this for the turkish cultures for the next update (as well as moving slovak/transylvanian to their slavic groups leaving hungarian all alone again):

 

[Zylathas]

Do you know if it's possible to upload them in a way that does not break saves that are currently using the update now?

Next to that.. I am not sure if that is a very good idea, Burgundy - France yes. England - France, I would not do that.

 

[Basileios Makedon]

Awesome. In the next update Burgundy, England and France are all historical rivals too so that should help!

Also, I'm looking at something like this for the turkish cultures for the next update (as well as moving slovak/transylvanian to their slavic groups leaving hungarian all alone again):

Keep transylvanian in the magyqr group

 

[Grand Historian]

Also, I'm looking at something like this for the turkish cultures for the next update (as well as moving slovak/transylvanian to their slavic groups leaving hungarian all alone again):

Please don't; one culture culture groups are awful. If anything, I would suggest this:

Slovak into West Slavic.
Transylvanian stays.
Romanian is moved into the Magyar group, which is renamed Carpathian. Though, linguistically, they do not have much in common with the Hungarians, Romanians share more in common culturally, including close ties over history, with the Hungarians than they did Serbians or Croatians. They are also quite close to the Transylvanians, and this would prevent Hungarian from being in its own group again.
And though this doesn't have to do with Europe; Korean is moved into the Chinese group. It makes no sense being a culture of it's own, as Korea has always been under the influence of China historically; religiously, culturally, economically, militarily, legislatively, and even linguistically for a very long time.

Edit: Do you think you could localize Yoruk?

 

[Mattymooz]

Do you know if it's possible to upload them in a way that does not break saves that are currently using the update now?

Next to that.. I am not sure if that is a very good idea, Burgundy - France yes. England - France, I would not do that.

The way the game works is that as long as you don't add any new features (something like development) it will not reak saves.

Adding new provinces doesn't even break saves (although it leaves the new provinces as colonisable)

Everything like adding new cultures/tags etc also doesn't break saves, but they won't effect the running game


And England-France makes perfect sense (the hundred years war had been going for ages before that). All it really does is mean that AI england/france will rival each other (which is correct historically anyways)

 

[Kiyant]

I would also say that the province of Samsthke should be of Turkic culture.
(Probably Karaqalpak or Kipcak culture and Samtshke should be its primary nation)

 

[X-Factor]

Slovak into West Slavic.
Transylvanian stays.
Romanian is moved into the Magyar group, which is renamed Carpathian. Though, linguistically, they do not have much in common with the Hungarians, Romanians share more in common culturally, including close ties over history, with the Hungarians than they did Serbians or Croatians. They are also quite close to the Transylvanians, and this would prevent Hungarian from being in its own group again.

I totaly agree with this.

 

[talilu]

I have been playing with Extended Vanilla Experience and it seems to handle the Greek islands pretty well! Limnos and Imbros unattached from Edirne and Lesbos out of the Scio island group gives sensible provinces to the region which were important because of the Aegean Trade and passage from Dardenelles.

Also, I think the South Western Anatolian provinces are way too big compared to their Greek counter-parts, seeing that they both had the same historical importance. I would suggest a division like this... (Behold my Paint skills!)

1. Karaburun or Çeşme. Peninsula was important for trade between Chios and Anatolia until Ottomans conquered the Aegean Islands. After that, the trade moved to the Mainland İzmir.

2. Aydın or Efes. This province would be only there for breaking the huge Efes province and centering the attention around the city of Efes.

3. Menteşe or Muğla. As I said, Efes province is way too big.

Out of all three, only Karaburun/Çeşme province would qualify as Greek maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe, I'm absolutely not sure. If you were to implement these (or provinces you designed yourself for that matter), the Aegean Region would fell a little bit more important than Central Anatolia(n wastelands)

EDIT: For some reason, I thought Efes and Mentese were merged in your mod. Just moving the border a bit north would work for "Efes too big boo" problem

 

[Grand Historian]

I have been playing with Extended Vanilla Experience and it seems to handle the Greek islands pretty well! Limnos and Imbros unattached from Edirne and Lesbos out of the Scio island group gives sensible provinces to the region which were important because of the Aegean Trade and passage from Dardenelles.

Also, I think the South Western Anatolian provinces are way too big compared to their Greek counter-parts, seeing that they both had the same historical importance. I would suggest a division like this... (Behold my Paint skills!)

1. Karaburun or Çeşme. Peninsula was important for trade between Chios and Anatolia until Ottomans conquered the Aegean Islands. After that, the trade moved to the Mainland İzmir.

2. Aydın or Efes. This province would be only there for breaking the huge Efes province and centering the attention around the city of Efes.

3. Menteşe or Muğla. As I said, Efes province is way too big.

Out of all three, only Karaburun/Çeşme province would qualify as Greek maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe, I'm absolutely not sure. If you were to implement these (or provinces you designed yourself for that matter), the Aegean Region would fell a little bit more important than Central Anatolia(n wastelands)

EDIT: For some reason, I thought Efes and Mentese were merged in your mod. Just moving the border a bit north would work for "Efes too big boo" problem

Please no. While I enjoy more provinces and depth, adding in microscopic provinces would only cause unnecessary lag, shadow buffs/nerfs, border gore, and general unbalance (such as separating Limnos and Lesbos from Adrianople and Chios, seeing as they never played an important or integral part in any history, more islands in general, or Karabun, which would be a completely unnecessary split from Smyrna, which, despite the first picture, it is actually a part of, seeing as how Smyrna has always exerted influence over the peninsula to begin with, and it would probably never fall out of the Ottoman's hands anyways).

 

[talilu]

Ah, there goes the hope for coastal Greek provinces! Anyways, you might be just right.

 

[Maq]

Make the eastern areas Armenian since they were the majority back then. In this map the Armenian majority is with dark red during the 17th century, and light red had a large Armenian minority, so in 1444 you could make most of that area Armenian too. All the rulers were still Turkish though

Nobody can tell the exact numbers, obviously, but I rather believe this map is rather exaggerating. I have read some sources from cca 1870 and Armenians were indeed present in all those regions in significant numbers but rarely formed more than 50 per cent of population of any district.

 

[R'hllor]

Nobody can tell the exact numbers, obviously, but I rather believe this map is rather exaggerating. I have read some sources from cca 1870 and Armenians were indeed present in all those regions in significant numbers but rarely formed more than 50 per cent of population of any district.

Thats 200 years after the time of that map. The Armenian population declined in the Ottoman empire through the years, as they were (mostly) Christian and treated as second-class citizens like other non-muslims. So then happens assimilation for those who converted to Islam and some moved from increasingly Turkish areas closer to modern Armenia. Remember also that 1870 is pretty close to the genocide and its not like there wasn't any violence before.

 

[Maq]

Thats 200 years after the time of that map. The Armenian population declined in the Ottoman empire through the years, as they were (mostly) Christian and treated as second-class citizens like other non-muslims. So then happens assimilation for those who converted to Islam and some moved from increasingly Turkish areas closer to modern Armenia. Remember also that 1870 is pretty close to the genocide and its not like there wasn't any violence before.

Good points, but don't forget that in 1444 that region was already 400 years under Turkish or Mongolian control. If Armenians suffered later, they surely suffered before 1444, too. Considering that, I'd say that the period of Ottoman rule ranks among the peaceful a relatively tolerant ones. Until the Armenian genocide, of course.

 

[R'hllor]

Good points, but don't forget that in 1444 that region was already 400 years under Turkish or Mongolian control. If Armenians suffered later, they surely suffered before 1444, too. Considering that, I'd say that the period of Ottoman rule ranks among the peaceful a relatively tolerant ones. Until the Armenian genocide, of course.

Western Armenia, which today is a part of Turkey, wasn't under Mongol rule at any point. Instead they were ruled by the Sultanate of Rum, which similarly treated Christian Armenians as second-class citizens. But they weren't in other ways hostile to the Armenians. So the decline of Armenian culture was a thing when the Ottomans rose but before the Turks came the whole area between Armenia and Cilicia was pretty much Armenian.

 

[Maq]

before the Turks came the whole area between Armenia and Cilicia was pretty much Armenian

I agree. But the Turks came in 1079.
But let's discontinue this discussion, right? I take your points. All you said was true. But nobody has ever made any census there before late 19th century, so we can only estimate. And my personal guess - while fully admitting my limited knowledge - is that the map you presented is a bit biased towards Armenians. I believe the region where they constituted over 50 per cent was rather smaller. Just a guess, that's all.

 

[R'hllor]

I agree. But the Turks came in 1079.
But let's discontinue this discussion, right? I take your points. All you said was true. But nobody has ever made any census there before late 19th century, so we can only estimate. And my personal guess - while fully admitting my limited knowledge - is that the map you presented is a bit biased towards Armenians. I believe the region where they constituted over 50 per cent was rather smaller. Just a guess, that's all.

I agree, lets close this argument. We can never know for sure.