Improved Anatolia Map

[Mattymooz]

NOTE : Coming soon to the Steam Workshop : http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=451040975​

After my vision of a better England was so well recieved, I'm just going to start doing other places (mainly in Europe) that I think deserve more better provinces.

Please note that the idea of these changes is too add depth to an area and make it more accurate, but not to go completely indepth in certain areas with tiny provinces. They still need to be clickable and a reasonable size. I'm not going to make an area a mass of utrechts and maltas.

So, this time my focus was Anatolia. Here is what I would change if I was Paradox:

The changes added a total of 8 new provinces. This resulted in 1 province for Ramazan, 1 for Karaman and 6 for the Ottomans. Please note that my reasoning for redrawing anatolia even though it is not part of Europe is A) to give the ottomans a buff and B) to make the change in the size of the provinces to be less obvious (at least IMO, it is less obvious that provinces are larger compared to ones next to it)

I haven't added any cultures, but would love to break up the giant turkish blob, so any suggestions would be great!

I have also fiddled with the Base Tax for the area a bit so that the area has been buffed to stay in line with the slightly stronger PLC and Hungary

Again I will be uploading it to the workshop soon, so you guys will be able to play with it. Any amendments would be great. My expertise is not in this area of the world so it could be horribly wrong!

 

[R'hllor]

Make the eastern areas Armenian since they were the majority back then. In this map the Armenian majority is with dark red during the 17th century, and light red had a large Armenian minority, so in 1444 you could make most of that area Armenian too. All the rulers were still Turkish though

 

[R'hllor]

Another thing that I found out is that there was an independent beylik of Bafra in Canik, which you can add if you want to, but it was insignificant and annexed to the ottomans in 1460. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beylik_of_Bafra

 

[ShadowCammy]

How come their capital isn't Edirne? I believe it was still Edirne in 1444. Unless it's just a weird thing with the moving provinces around.

 

[Mattymooz]

How come their capital isn't Edirne? I believe it was still Edirne in 1444. Unless it's just a weird thing with the moving provinces around.

Whoops! I moved it when I was changing some stuff and must have forgotten to move it back!

 

[Grand Historian]

Sinope should be Pontic/Orthodox and Erzerum should also be Armenian/Coptic. Aside from that, it looks pretty good, though six new provinces for the Ottomans seems a bit extreme (four probably would have been balanced enough).

 

[Mattymooz]

Sinope should be Pontic/Orthodox and Erzerum should also be Armenian/Coptic. Aside from that, it looks pretty good, though six new provinces for the Ottomans seems a bit extreme (four probably would have been balanced enough).

Not when they always get owned by the austria+hungary alliance that they always get now Will change sinope tho

 

[Grand Historian]

Not when they always get owned by the austria+hungary alliance that they always get now Will change sinope tho

Quite true, I suppose. Also, do you think you could move the western peninsula that connects Chios to Ephesus to Smyrna? Also, and though this is a bit off topic, I realized in the Cultural Picture that Northern Epirus/Ioannina is Albanian when it should be Greek. It didn't experience a large Albanian influx until the Ottomans conquered both Albanian and all of Epirus.

 

[Mattymooz]

Quite true, I suppose. Also, do you think you could move the western peninsula that connects Chios to Ephesus to Smyrna?

What peninsula? um wat?

I realized in the Cultural Picture that Northern Epirus/Ioannina is Albanian when it should be Greek. It didn't experience a large Albanian influx until the Ottomans conquered both Albanian and all of Epirus.

I read that actually it was a largely albanian populous (lot's of small albanian tribes) and then Ioannina in particualr got a lot of greek refugees as the ottoderps conquored constaniderple (Source : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epirus ). I could either make it greek because of the refugees, or I could make it albanian because it historically was (and it also fleshes out the albanian culture). Plus I read somewhere else (can't find the link) that they supported Skanderbeg in his rebeliion (though were not part of the actual rebellion)

 

[Grand Historian]

What peninsula? um wat?

I read that actually it was a largely albanian populous (lot's of small albanian tribes) and then Ioannina in particualr got a lot of greek refugees as the ottoderps conquored constaniderple (Source : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epirus ). I could either make it greek because of the refugees, or I could make it albanian because it historically was (and it also fleshes out the albanian culture). Plus I read somewhere else (can't find the link) that they supported Skanderbeg in his rebeliion (though were not part of the actual rebellion)

The one containing Mount Yamanlar, directly south of Smyrna that offers a direct view of the Gulf of Izmir (rather, that strip of land that Chios directly connects to Ephesus).

Really? Many of the sources I've read indicated that it was predominantly Greek until after Skanderbeg's rebellion was put down. There was a presence in Epirus prior to it, and a short time of ascendency, but they were pushed out by the Despotate and later the Ottomans before becoming dominant again in the early sixteenth century. It's possible you're confusing Epirus with Nova Epirus, which is just another term for actual Albania.

 

[Mattymooz]

The one containing Mount Yamanlar, directly south of Smyrna that offers a direct view of the Gulf of Izmir (rather, that strip of land that Chios directly connects to Ephesus).

Really? Many of the sources I've read indicated that it was predominantly Greek until after Skanderbeg's rebellion was put down. There was a presence in Epirus prior to it, and a short time of ascendency, but they were pushed out by the Despotate and later the Ottomans before becoming dominant again in the early sixteenth century. It's possible you're confusing Epirus with Nova Epirus, which is just another term for actual Albania.

But what do you mean by move it?

Nah, Ioannnina is definitely in Epirus Vetus, not Epirus Nova

 

[Grand Historian]

But what do you mean by move it?

Nah, Ioannnina is definitely in Epirus Vetus, not Epirus Nova

Shift the border of Smyrna province down to incorporate it; Smryna has always exerted influence over it so it's a bit awkward seeing it as part of Ephesus.

That it is, I was just suggesting that there had been a mix-up with the names.

 

[talilu]

Hmm about the cultures;

All of Sinope, Canik and Trebizond can be Pontic and Orthodox, no problem with that since the Greeks were pretty "hidden" from the Turkish population by the Northern Anatolian Mountains and dense forests.

Kayseri should be Cappadocian and Orthodox! Cappadocian is a Hellenic Dialect/Language which is significantly effected by Turkish ever since they lost the contact with the Roman Empire.

Also an oddity in Karaman is the Greek Alphabet user Turkish Christians... I don't know how that happened. Aksaray could be Orthodox but Turkish to represent this.

Sugla, at the size of it in-game and in your mod is a Turkish province for sure, but if you cut it in two as North and South, you can have your Greek Orthodox İzmir of the Infidel:

"Greek influence was so strong in the area that the Turks called it "Smyrna of the infidels" (Gavur İzmir).[15] While Turkish sources track the emergence of the term to the 14th century when two separate parts of the city were controlled by two different powers, the upper İzmir being Muslim and the lower part of the city Christian."

NOTE: Upper and Lower Izmir might also used to distinguish the moutanious and coastal parts of Izmir! I'm not sure which, you should decide if you will change Smyrna.


Also irrelevant to Anatolia but I would want to point out something in Greece:

"Regions with a strong traditional presence of Arvanites are found mainly in a compact area in southeastern Greece, namely acrossAttica (especially in Eastern Attica), southern Boeotia, the north-east of the Peloponnese, the south of the island of Euboea, the north of the island of Andros, and several islands of the Saronic Gulf including Salamis. In parts of this area they formed a solid majority until about 1900. Within Attica, parts of the capital Athens and its suburbs were Arvanitic until the late 19th century.[17] There are also settlements in some other parts of the Peloponnese, and in Phthiotis (Livanates, Malesina, Martino villages)."

Arvanites are Albanians speaking a different dialect than the standard Albanian today. They immigrated from Albania to Athens and nearby areas in 1300s, so I demand that Athens shall be Arvanite!

 

[talilu]

Also not in Anatolia but I guess you won't make an overhaul of the Syria/Iraq region so putting it here, the closest region. Assyrian Coptic provinces could be Cizre, Mosul and Sinjar. Mush would be a left out Kurdish province with no connection so making it Armenian would be logical also according to the map of R'hllor.

 

[Mattymooz]

Also irrelevant to Anatolia but I would want to point out something in Greece:

"Regions with a strong traditional presence of Arvanites are found mainly in a compact area in southeastern Greece, namely acrossAttica (especially in Eastern Attica), southern Boeotia, the north-east of the Peloponnese, the south of the island of Euboea, the north of the island of Andros, and several islands of the Saronic Gulf including Salamis. In parts of this area they formed a solid majority until about 1900. Within Attica, parts of the capital Athens and its suburbs were Arvanitic until the late 19th century.[17] There are also settlements in some other parts of the Peloponnese, and in Phthiotis (Livanates, Malesina, Martino villages)."

Arvanites are Albanians speaking a different dialect than the standard Albanian today. They immigrated from Albania to Athens and nearby areas in 1300s, so I demand that Athens shall be Arvanite!

So in this map it would just be corinth and athens yea?

 

[Grand Historian]

Hmm about the cultures;

All of Sinope, Canik and Trebizond can be Pontic and Orthodox, no problem with that since the Greeks were pretty "hidden" from the Turkish population by the Northern Anatolian Mountains and dense forests.

Kayseri should be Cappadocian and Orthodox! Cappadocian is a Hellenic Dialect/Language which is significantly effected by Turkish ever since they lost the contact with the Roman Empire.

Also an oddity in Karaman is the Greek Alphabet user Turkish Christians... I don't know how that happened. Aksaray could be Orthodox but Turkish to represent this.

Sugla, at the size of it in-game and in your mod is a Turkish province for sure, but if you cut it in two as North and South, you can have your Greek Orthodox İzmir of the Infidel:

"Greek influence was so strong in the area that the Turks called it "Smyrna of the infidels" (Gavur İzmir).[15] While Turkish sources track the emergence of the term to the 14th century when two separate parts of the city were controlled by two different powers, the upper İzmir being Muslim and the lower part of the city Christian."

NOTE: Upper and Lower Izmir might also used to distinguish the moutanious and coastal parts of Izmir! I'm not sure which, you should decide if you will change Smyrna.


Also irrelevant to Anatolia but I would want to point out something in Greece:

"Regions with a strong traditional presence of Arvanites are found mainly in a compact area in southeastern Greece, namely acrossAttica (especially in Eastern Attica), southern Boeotia, the north-east of the Peloponnese, the south of the island of Euboea, the north of the island of Andros, and several islands of the Saronic Gulf including Salamis. In parts of this area they formed a solid majority until about 1900. Within Attica, parts of the capital Athens and its suburbs were Arvanitic until the late 19th century.[17] There are also settlements in some other parts of the Peloponnese, and in Phthiotis (Livanates, Malesina, Martino villages)."

Arvanites are Albanians speaking a different dialect than the standard Albanian today. They immigrated from Albania to Athens and nearby areas in 1300s, so I demand that Athens shall be Arvanite!

Agree on Pontus.

Cappadocians were certainly a disparaged minority by this time.

Agree on the Karamanlides.

That would make Sugla too small, and the city had not become heavily Christian again until the early sixteenth century; Timur's massacre some four decades ago completely wiped out the city's predominantly Christian population whereupon it was resettled by Turks until experiencing an influx of Greeks again.

None of the Arvanites were ever a significant enough population to warrant having their own provinces, especially in the heartland of Greece itself.

 

[talilu]

Well, I wouldn't want to troll Greece by making it's capital Albanian either, but it says "solid majoirty"... Isn't that significant enough? Considering both Greeks and Arvanites of Athens were under Turkish rule, one would argue that none of them were significant anyways. I wish wiki told more about the Arvanites but Ottoman Millet System makes everything confusing.

 

[Grand Historian]

Well, I wouldn't want to troll Greece by making it's capital Albanian either, but it says "solid majoirty"... Isn't that significant enough? Considering both Greeks and Arvanites of Athens were under Turkish rule, one would argue that none of them were significant anyways. I wish wiki told more about the Arvanites but Ottoman Millet System makes everything confusing.

The article about Attica only reaffirmed that the province maintained it's Greek identity, and I'm pretty sure that a; Attica as a whole never lost a Greek majority, and b; even if it did, that certainly wasn't the case in 1444, when it was independent.

 

[Basileios Makedon]

Pontus pontic!

 

[Zylathas]

Do you have some ETA on an exact release time/date? As I am planning on starting a new game, but I want to know if it is worthwhile to do so.