Improve relations vs. better relations

[LikeNothing]

I love how half the people in the thread are accusing the change of being an anti blob measure, and the others are complaining about how it makes it even easier to blob. Could you at least come to a consensus about how you don't like anything paradox does, no matter what?

Could you make an independent decision which one of those two contradictory statements you actually agree with, instead of diverting to some off-topic issue?

The change is fine for stream lining purposes, there's really no reason to have two modifiers that basically do the same thing.

Oh but they do not do EXACTLY the same thing, do they?

If your (and Paradox's, by your estimation) streamlining logic is consistently followed, you should also merge:

- AE Reduction and Better Relations Over Time;

- Unrest Reduction and Years of Nationalism Reduction;

- Tolerance of Heretics/Heathens and Religious Unity;

- Global Settler Increase and Settler Chance Increase;

- Total Manpower and Manpower Recovery Rate;

and so on.

So why don't you? Why apply your standard only to this one particular case? @DDRJake

Isn't streamlining most effective when done across the board?

 

[ecrurudesby]

Oh but they do not do EXACTLY the same thing, do they?

If your (and Paradox's, by your estimation) streamlining logic is consistently followed, you should also merge:

- AE Reduction and Better Relations Over Time
No, because BROT affects more than just AE decay, and it doesn't affect initial generation whatsoever.

- Unrest Reduction and Years of Nationalism Reduction
No, because unrest reduction affects more than years of nationalism does.

- Tolerance of Heretics/Heathens and Religious Unity
Not really, because Heretics and Heathens are quite different and should be seperated.

- Global Settler Increase and Settler Chance Increase
Your best example. These could probably be combined and reworked slightly and I doubt anyone would mind. You could make a thread in the Suggestion section if you like?

- Total Manpower and Manpower Recovery Rate
You should've stopped at four examples if you couldn't think of a sensible fifth.

 

[Bella Gerant]

So Protestantism gets a massive buff and I'm no longer wrong when I say Protestantism speeds up AE decay?

...

Be right back.

Spoiler

 

[Kryndude]

Am I the only one confused by the OP? There is no improve relations advisor, there's only BROT advisor which already gives you global decay bonus. What's it talking about?

 

[Republic of Mercury]

Am I the only one confused by the OP? There is no improve relations advisor, there's only BROT advisor which already gives you global decay bonus. What's it talking about?

Because now the Diplomat advisor's effect is now listed as "improve relations" rather than "better relations over time", and they weren't aware that the former now does both, instead thinking the actual effect had been changed from BRoT to just affecting the improve relations diplomatic action.

 

[paulatreides0]

Frankly, the min-maxing issue would be significantly lesser if paradox just added caps to keep modifier buffs from geting to ridiculous levels. The game would benefit from having more hard caps for modifiers, so that decision are less about stacking modifiers for maximal effect. Most idea groups have good points beyond the usually stacked modifiers. Taking influence ideas would still be great for a diplomatic nation even if they reached the maximum AE reduction, because decreased annexation costs, relation slot, and diplo rep in and of themselves are great. Diplomatic would still be great because diplomats, relation slot, and diplo rep as well as the finisher and warscore cost are great even if you reach your maximum AE decay rate. Offensive/Quality would still be great even if you reached max discipline because they offer tons of other bonuses. Etc., etc.

 

[PedroVargas]

Am I the only one confused by the OP? There is no improve relations advisor, there's only BROT advisor which already gives you global decay bonus. What's it talking about?

I should probably change the initial posting and the title of the thread now that DDRJake cleared things up.

The reason for my rant / question was that the BROT advisor was renamed to "improve relations" advisor in 1.19 beta which led me to believe that he lost the BROT modifier and only helped improve relations 10% faster (which would be very weak). Turns out the advisor as before has the 10% better relations modifier PLUS the 10% improve relations with the nation you send a diplomat to.

Sorry for any confusion. That was not the intention.

 

[Gnostek]

I believe this change is irrelevant EXCEPT for the fact that it adds more BROT sources.

I mean, improve relations modifier was borderline useless. Since it was always rounded to the higher integer, you'd basically improve relations at +4 speed for 4 months, then a year at +3, then 2 years at +2, or thereabouts.

This is a VERY MILD buff to BROT and a BIG BUFF to +improve relations.

 

[bodhi]

hi...sorry if i missed the answer hidden somewhere in this thread...

so, BRoT and IR modifiers are merged for the diplomat adviser. my question is: do Improve Relations national ideas (such as Benign Diplomats) now also have BRoT effects? Or are BRoT and IR only merged for advisers?

 

[durbal]

hi...sorry if i missed the answer hidden somewhere in this thread...

so, BRoT and IR modifiers are merged for the diplomat adviser. my question is: do Improve Relations national ideas (such as Benign Diplomats) now also have BRoT effects? Or are BRoT and IR only merged for advisers?

For everyone.

Diplomatic ideas and policies are great now.