Improve relations vs. better relations

[PedroVargas]

Edited post.

In 1.19 beta the diplomat advisor has "improve relations" as his modifier which led me to believe he has lost his "better relations over time" modifier. DDRJake cleared this up though

the two modifiers have been merged into one. Improve Relations modifiers also increase Better Relations Over Time.

Here's my original initial posting:

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Have "better relations" advisors really been kicked out of the game? It seems they have been replaced by "improve relations" advisors which in my view are a lot worse as they only help against a single target and don't work globally. Or has there just been a name change?

Was that even announced in the beta patch notes? I don't recall reading anything about it. If it stays in as is and diplomats only help improving relations 10% faster, those advisors would become the weakest in the game and utterly useless for my playstyle.

 

[Chimerae]

More anti blob measurements Just like horde nerfs etc.

 

[DDRJake]

the two modifiers have been merged into one. Improve Relations modifiers also increase Better Relations Over Time.

 

[londoner247]

the two modifiers have been merged into one. Improve Relations modifiers also increase Better Relations Over Time.

So, in fact, this makes the advisor more powerful because he has a passive benefit and a target specific benefit. Is that right?

 

[Gigawot]

so kinda a boost to austria, humanist, diplomatic

 

[PedroVargas]

the two modifiers have been merged into one. Improve Relations modifiers also increase Better Relations Over Time.

Thanks for the answer Jake, that clears it up. And it sounds good

 

[Zwirbaum]

Yeah, I just finished relaxed game of Florence -> Italy -> Roman Empire with no coaliitions thanks to stacking Improve Relations modifiers (had 6.3 AE decay yearly for the most of the campaign). Eat Spain for 100 WS, after 15 y-old truce, they will not even/almost care!

 

[Muki13]

Indeed.

A good example why this change is a terrible idea that leads to yet more unrealistic blobbing.

Because everyone always stacks everything and gets to 6.3 AE decay. I am sick and tired of people complaining and Paradox nerfing things because few people managed to stack some modifiers. Most people play the game casually or semi-casually and don't min-max every tiny detail. You really shouldn't balance a game for the min-maxers. This is not some ultra competitive game with serious tournaments.

 

[grommile]

In the age of ubiquitous broadband internet and highly effective search engines, accounting for minmaxers in balance decisions in a multiplayer-enabled game is not optional.

 

[Octavius Antony]

I love how half the people in the thread are accusing the change of being an anti blob measure, and the others are complaining about how it makes it even easier to blob. Could you at least come to a consensus about how you don't like anything paradox does, no matter what? The change is fine for stream lining purposes, there's really no reason to have two modifiers that basically do the same thing.

 

[Master of Times]

Correct me here if I'm wrong. This means that the higher I have improved relations with a nation, the faster AE (and other modifiers) will decay?

If this is the case, say what you want about blobs and blah blah blah but IMO it makes complete sense. If a nation likes you more, they are less likely to care about your wrongdoings. Isn't it the same in personal relatios after all? You care less if your friends does something bad than if someone you already dislike does it...

 

[Octavius Antony]

This means that the higher I have improved relations with a nation, the faster AE (and other modifiers) will decay?

No, the modifier allows you to do multiple things faster. You'll have a bonus towards increasing relations with any nation you appoint a diplomat to, but you'll also get a bonus to the speed at which negative modifiers return to zero. That bonus is flat for all nations, regardless of how much they like/dislike you. It's a fairly major buff to humanist and diplomatic ideas, along with the diplomat adviser.

 

[Sunspawn]

so kinda a boost to austria, humanist, diplomatic

And Italy.

Yeah, I just finished relaxed game of Florence -> Italy -> Roman Empire with no coaliitions thanks to stacking Improve Relations modifiers (had 6.3 AE decay yearly for the most of the campaign). Eat Spain for 100 WS, after 15 y-old truce, they will not even/almost care!

And stacking IR means you either didn't stack extreme military bonuses, extreme economy bonuses or some other OP combination. Pretty much anything can be OP when stacked to the max.

 

[Master of Times]

No, the modifier allows you to do multiple things faster. You'll have a bonus towards increasing relations with any nation you appoint a diplomat to, but you'll also get a bonus to the speed at which negative modifiers return to zero. That bonus is flat for all nations, regardless of how much they like/dislike you. It's a fairly major buff to humanist and diplomatic ideas, along with the diplomat adviser.

I fail to see why it is a boost though. Before, we had an advisor that would give that bonus anyway. Now we have one that give both to improve relations and to the decay of modifiers. Why is it a boost?

 

[Sunspawn]

I fail to see why it is a boost though. Before, we had an advisor that would give that bonus anyway. Now we have one that give both to improve relations and to the decay of modifiers. Why is it a boost?

Forget the bloody advisor. It's not about the advisor, it's about how you can stack more of it due to it coming from more sources now(before it was just Humanist, now diplo adds it too, as well as various NIs that added only the active bonus, add both). So the advisor was slightly nerfed in passive AE-reduction. Boohoo.

 

[Zwirbaum]

And Italy.


And stacking IR means you either didn't stack extreme military bonuses, extreme economy bonuses or some other OP combination. Pretty much anything can be OP when stacked to the max.

Did I post anything anywhere stating it was OP? I just said I had relaxed game with it. Also I didn't need to stack extreme military bonuses, Quality, Defensive, Plutocratic were my MIL ideas, and I had Admin and Humanist from the ADM idea groups. (Diplomatic + Influence) for the +improve relations/lowered AE.

Next time, before everyone will run and cry 'OP as hell' or attribute something I didn't said, please don't

 

[ecrurudesby]

Don't forget Protestantism also gives +15% improve relations. Significant boost for them. I like this change.

 

[Ptirodaktill]

I nice change for all who play in HRE. =)

 

[Sunspawn]

A nice change for all who play in HRE. =)

Dear gods, yes. Although it will give a way bigger buff to Austria, with their BROT tradition.

 

[LikeNothing]

I am sick and tired of people complaining and Paradox nerfing things because few people managed to stack some modifiers. Most people play the game casually or semi-casually and don't min-max every tiny detail. You really shouldn't balance a game for the min-maxers. This is not some ultra competitive game with serious tournaments.

I hate min-maxers no less than you do, which is why I am concerned that this new mechanic can turn even the most casual players into min-maxers, by making min-maxing strategies that much more obvious to and easily accessible for the casual player.