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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

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We have already posted suggestions to make some important changes to Pergamon and the Attalis dynasty, the Peloponnese and Northern Greece, here comes the next part.
A little disclamer: we originally got many these ideas anticipating the Cassander patch and a DLC focused on the Greek states and the eastern med, but we've added more stuff related to cultures and religions for the new season! Dear devs, please don't ignore these suggestions!

Problem I: Bithynia and Astakos had a recent conflict that is not reflected by the game (A Matter of Bithynia generic mission tree feels inadequate, especially as the AI doesn’t do much with it). Zipoetes I tried to conquer it in 315 BC but Astakos received help from Antigonos (that’s how Astakos became a Phrygian feudatory).

Historically, Zipoetes I made a second try to conquer Astakos when Antigonos was defeated and killed at Ipsos. He destroyed Astacos and proclaimed himself King of Bithynia in 297 BC. Nicomedes I later rebuilt Astakos as his new capital, Nicomedia.

Proposed solution: add an Event chain OR mission tree for Bithynia that would:

- give them free claims on Astakos,

- make them declare war on Astakos if Phrygia is busy fighting in a war against someone else

- allow them to proclaim kingdom of Bithynia (claims on the whole Bithynia region, increased legitimacy) once Astakos is conquered.

- Allow them to found Nicomedia and move the capital there (perhaps only if Nikomedes becomes king).


Problem II: Nicomedes I’s second wife, Etazeta is in the game, but his first wife Ditizele is not. This is weird as the later Kings of Bithynia were Ditizele’s descendants and Etazeta lost the struggle for power and was expelled. Her being 18 at start is definitely too old: historically, her son was an infant in 255-254 and she would be 68 in-game. Notably, if AI controls Bithynia, Etazeta also often ends up married to someone else (sometimes even to Zipoetes I!).

Proposed solutions:

- Add Ditizele (Phrygian culture, average stats) to the pre-set characters list, and make her already married to Nikomedes.

- Have Etazeta appear later (with the stats she has now and the uncaring trait) via a customized, unavoidable version of the Discreditable Dalliance event.

- ALTERNATIVELY make Etazeta a new-born baby at start (this would randomize her stats and traits as she grows up and make it extremely unlikely that Nikomedes ever marries her).


Problem III: The borders of provinces of Bithynia and Bithynia Inferior look weird and have (probably unintended) consequences.

- It makes Bithynia (a local power with just 6 territories) have different policies in two provinces and NO grain and earthenware in the capital province.

- It gives Phrygia a tiny province of just one city and one territory that they struggle to develop as it is not worth to spend Influence on policy changes.

- It affects auto-generated missions: Bithynia gets the missions to conquer the two provinces and this puts them at odd with Phrygia. Enticing the governor of Phrygian Bithynia doesn’t give them Antigoneia and Pythopolis because they lack a border.

- It can lead to some weirdly-looking borders if Phrygia collapses: For example, if they conquer Bithynia and Chalcedon, a seceding Bithynia province will also control Pythopolis and Antigoneia Bithyniai with Astakos and Bithynia Inferior cutting the new country in the two isolated parts.


Proposed solution: swap the territories between Bithynia and Bithyna Inferior provinces (the country borders won’t change): move Chelai and Tarsos to Bithynia and Pythopolis and Antigoneia Bithyniai to Bithynia Inferior instead.
In order to make the province name clearer, we also propose to rename the province of Bithynia to Bithynia Litoralis.

This will result in cleaner and more logical province borders:

- Bithynia (Litoralis) province will consist of the coastal areas, split between of four small countries (Bithynia, Kios, Astakos and Chalcedon), all of them completely within one province.

- Bithynia inferior will completely belong to Phrygia, forcing them to spend less on policy change.

- Bithynia (the country) will have two useful tradegoods (grain and cloth) in their capital at start.

- Matter of Bithynia Missions will be slightly easier.

- If Phrygia conquers some areas in Bithynia Litoralis and explodes later, the new countires would have much nicer borders without inaccessible areas.

Problem IV: The Seleucids get a special invention reflecting the introduction of the Seleucid era. However, Bithynia also had a unique calendar starting with Zippoetes I assuming the royal title in 297 BC but they don’t get such a tech.

Proposed solutions: either

- make the Seleukid imperial calendar oratory invention available to Bithynia as well

- make a unique invention for them with a slightly different effect.

Problems (starting political situation):

- Kios starts as a loyal Phrygian tributary. This was not true historically: Mithridates II planned to betray the Antigonids and side with Kassandros. When Antigonos found out about the plot, he had him executed and that caused his son’s escape to Paphlagonia.

- since the 1.3 update Mithridates I of Pontus starts as a minor character in Phrygia. While he is a son of his father, king Mithridates II, he is not a member of the Mithridatid family. A player-controlled Kios can befriend and recruit him back, but even then he doesn’t become primary heir as he should be but has to be adopted into the royal family. Meanwhile, he is a citizen in Phrygia and can be employed in any office.

Combined, this makes it almost impossible to form Mithridatic Pontus as Kios by gaining independence, getting land and taking the form Pontus decision (this was the way to do it in 1.2).

Proposed solution to both: Make Mithridates start in Kios as the primary heir. Make Kios disloyal to Phrygia and give them an instant event with two choices:

- Either affirm loyalty to Phrygia and sent Mithridates jr. to Phrygia as hostage. This would create a very similar situation as now but with Mithridates properly recognized by the game as a member of his family and foreigner in Phrygia, that should reflect his status there better.

- Or launch the plot and defect to Macedon. Kios would stop paying tribute to Phrygia and ask Macedon for an alliance. Macedon would get 100 opinion on Kios, while Phrygia would lose 200 opinion, get claims on Kios and Antigonos should rival Mithridates II. If they later conquer Kios and either adopt the Mithridatid family or imprison important characters, Mithridates escape to Paphlagonia should be able to trigger anyway.

Problems (royal couple):

- Queen Artakama Mithridatid is the spouse of Mithridates II, but does not appear as mother of Mithridates and two of his oldest sisters (Mandane and Anzaza). Instead, she usually has one more (apparently randomly generated) child and often starts PREGNANT AT AGE 75!

- Mithridates II has the traits submissive and cautious. However, he came to the throne by betraying his father or other close relative Ariobarzanes II to the Persians and plotted to betray Antigonos. Giving him the deceitful trait would be appropriate to reflect this.

Proposed solutions:

- Make Artakama the mother of her husband’s children and make her infertile (as appropriate for her age).

- Give Mithridates II a deceitful trait.

Problem I: Lyttos has no port. While the city itself is indeed located inland, they controlled Chersonesos on the northern coast. The lack of a navy makes a siege of Knossos more difficult since they can’t blockade them from sea.

Proposed solution: Give them a port.


Problem II: Kydonia has forest terrain while the area controlled by ancient Kydonia was the Chania Plain.

Proposed solution: Change the terrain in Kydonia to a plain.


Problem III: some key cities that played an important role in the timeframe of the game, particularly in the Lyttian war and the Cretan war do not exist in-game. This also creates some tactical and strategic problems:

- Hierapytna border the “Mare Creticum” sea tile allowing it to be invaded from there, while it has only a port on the southern side of the Island.

- Praisos is boxed in, bordering only Hierapytna, and has no port (correctly), it has only one possible direction to expand, which is too much railroading.

- The existing web of alliances and feudatories cover almost the entire island; a war that breaks out usually involves all countries except Polyrrhenia and Kydonia. This is too early, the Lyttian war was in 220 BC, AI-launched wars on Crete in early game should be smaller in scale.

- Gortyna has not only two territories but also an adjacent feudatory (Tarrha). It usually becomes the dominant power on the island in a decade or two if AI controls all Cretan countries.

- Crete as a province has quite few food-producing territories.

Proposed solution: Add four more settlement territories. All should be city-states, most should produce food and have no pre-set alliances:

- Itanos, from the northeastern part of Praisos. Plains terrain, have a port (to give them seafaring heritage), probably produces fish. Reasons: Was an important rival of both Praisos and Hierapytna. One of the four major city-states of eastern Crete. Lasted independent much longer than Praisos and had, unlike other Cretan cities, more oversea contacts, particularly with Egypt. Tactically, adding it would stop Praisos from a dead-end as it is now: It would now have a neighbour to the east that could become an ally to secure their back or conquer them and get a port while risking that Ithanos calls in some own allies. Ithanos itself would border only Praisos, but would NOT be a dead-end due to the port and ability to expand overseas.

- Lato, from the northeastern parts of Hierapytna. Hills terrain, a port and a food tradegood. Reasons: One of the four major city-states of eastern Crete, shouldn’t be missing. Adding it would remove the historically inaccurate possibility to invade Hierapytna from the sea in the north, give Hierapytna a possibility to expand northward and give Praisos a second western neighbour increasing their possibilities for diplomacy or expansion. Was also the birthplace of Alexander’s admiral Nearchos, who was still alive (but in Phrygian service in 304 BC) so might later get a unique event or mission related to his legacy.

- Olous, from the eastern parts of Lyttos. Hills terrain, port and probably fish tradegood as Lato. Reasons Was (together with Hierapytna) Macedon’s most important local ally in the Cretan war. Had a temple of Britomartis with a wooden statue of the goddess allegedly made by Daedalus himself. That would provide some interesting flavor, especially since the next expansion should expand gods and religions. Had a border dispute with Lato. As another non-aligned city-state they would be a wildcard, able to strenghten any of the two small blocks on the island or even form an own alliance together with Lato and Ithanos.

- Lappa, from what are now the westernmost parts of Eleutherna and Koryon. Should have hills terrain and produce a food tradegood. Reasons: Was a key location in the Lyttian war until it was destroyed. Having it present between Gortyna and its feudatory Tarrha will make Gortyna less unstoppable and give a nice initial dilemma how to deal with this “roadblock”: befriend and ally them OR conquer them. If they are not allied with Gortyna or conquered by them, a player- controlled Tarrha would have it easier to declare independence from Gortyna and fight them off.

EDIT: Discussion on Lappa's port (or ports, or no port) in the comments below.

Together, they should create a bit more variety in the initial setup, allowing a third alliance to form on Crete (and possibly even a fourth one, consisting of Polyrrhenia, Kydonia and Lappa)


Problem IV: Crete was famous for their archers, but there are NO special bonuses for them in the game.

Proposed solution: Two new low-level military techs, available ONLY to the Cretan countries:

- Large arrowheads, +15% Archers offense. (The famous Cretan archers used bronze arrowheads that were notably larger than those used elsewhere were.)

- Cretan archers, -15% archers cost. (Cretan city-states should have it easier to recruit archers than anyone else.)

Problem V: The 1.3 Livy patch gave Cretan countires unique Omens. That means that while the hellenic religion in Crete is distinct from the rest of the Greek world, Crete itself is too homogenous. The omens (to be replaced with patron gods in the next patch) are the same for all Cretan countires and there are no unique modifiers to sacred locations.

Proposed solution I: We think these territories should get special modifiers and become religious sites:

- Knossos should have a “Eileithyia Cave” unique modifier

- Praisos should have a “Mount Dikte” unique modifier

They should increase conversion speed in these locations and make them eligible for the “sacred city” branch of the Pearl of Hellas generic mission tree.

Proposed solution II: Give the existing Gortyna and two of the cities we propose unique choice of patron deities if they are capitals:

- Gortyna should worship Europa (probably culture category). Reason: the Greeks believed this was the place where Zeus brought Europa and where he fathered three sons with her. Europa was apparently venerated as a Goddess in Gortyna. Her being the namesake of the European continent and mother of the first kings of Crete would be the reason to increase statesmenship.

- Olous should have a worship Britomartis instead of Diktynna (still warfare, but with the Omen increasing naval morale instead of army morale) Reason: while considered aspects of the same goddess, but Britomartis represented the more maritime aspects, being venerated by fishermen and sailors while Diktynna was more venerated by hunters.

- Olous may also have to worship Dedalus (culture or economy category). Reason: he has allegedly made the statue of Britomartis in Olous.

- Lato should worship Leto (fertility goddess). Reason: The city was named after Leto (Lato in the local dialect), mother of Artemis and Apollo.

Depending on what a player who has unified Crete plans to do, getting a choice of these patron deities would give reason to move the national capital to a better location.

Problem I: Rhodes, Miletos and Halicarnassus start without strong allies (except for the Istros-Miletos alliance, that is useless in practice). They are attacked and conquered by Phrygia in almost every game. Even an alliance or defenisve league between them is not strong enough to help. This is especially jarring as Phrygia has just made peace with Rhodes, lifting the famous siege, and they have previously protected Milet from a Ptolemaic invasion in 312 BC.

Proposed solution:

- Halicarnassos and Miletos should be allied to Phrygia. Alternatively, either of them could instead be a puppet (feudatory or tributary).

- Rhodes should be guaranteed by both Phrygia and Egypt, so Phrygia can't attack them without cancelling it giving them a truce. (an alliance would be inappropriate as Rhodes agreed to stay neutral in a future conflict between Antigonos and Ptolemaios).

Problem II: The Greek territories and countries in Caria Litoralis have either Ionian or Agean culture. However, Doric Greeks, who maintained a distinct identity from their neighbours, lived in the area. As different culture has a modifier on diplomatic relationships and willingness to trade, the absence of a unique, common culture distorts the relationship the countries should have. There was a historical federation between the Doric cities, the Hexapolis, and sometimes one of them tried to dominate the others (like Halicarnassus under Artemisia and Mausolos)

Proposed solutions:

- create a new culture in the Hellenistic group: Doric. Make it the primary culture in Kos, Knidos, Halikaranssos and Rhodes and change a majority of Ionian and Aegean pops in these countries to Doric ( a few freemen and slave pops should remain Ionian and Aegean and Cretan to represent recent immigrants, merchants, mercenaries etc).

- Make the Doric Hexapolis a tier 1 formable. The decision to form it should be available to Kos, Knidos, Halikaranssos and Rhodes and require owning all four capitals.
EDIT: as we've proposed splitting Rhodes into three tiles (see commnet below), the two new settlements Lindos and Kamiros should also be owned)


Problem III: Karpathos is part of the Crete province and all pops the have Cretan culture despite being one of the Dodecanese islands. This also means that Rhodes get a governor position as a local power with only four territories, that feels unwarranted. It also means Rhodes doesn’t get the fish Karpathos produces in the capital province, that would have been useful to feed the city.

Proposed solution: Karpathos should be moved from Crete to Caria Litoralis, bringing it into the same province as Rhodes and its possessions on the mainland. If you worry that it would reduce the number of food-producing settlements in Crete, implement our suggestion to add four new settlements in Crete itself (see above).


Problem IV: Rhodes is driven to expand into Asia by the generic mission tree they always get, while historically they expanded into the Aegean and eastern Crete.

proposed solutions:

- Give Rhodes a unique mission tree to construct the Colossus, replacing the current decision and small series of events. This should busy them for the first few decades, and afterwards they might expand according to the situation. As

- Give Rhodes a unique formable (probably tier 2): the Nesiotic league. Should require the original Nesiotic league not exist anymore, controlling some key Aegean islands, and having at least 100 ships. This would drive Rhodes to expand into the Aegean Sea.


Problem V: The countries have generic families and several notable individuals from these cities lived in 304 BC but are NOT present in the game.

Proposed solution I: add the following characters:

In Rhodes:

- Chares of Lindos, the builder of the Colossus (male, late 20s or older, very high finesse and decent martial. Possibly founder trait (for building the colossus), and if you believe the legends, proud (due to being unable to live with the imperfection) and guileless (due to being tricked with the costs) traits.

- Laches of Lindos, who finished the colossus after Chares’ suicide. Male, should have high finesse, but probably slightly lower than Chares.

In Halikarnassos:

- Heraclitus of Halicarnassus (about 16 years old, male, high charisma and zeal, poet trait). He was a renowned poet, although only one of his poems survived to today, and a friend of Kallimachos of Kyrene.

Elsewhere:

- If you implement Sicyon in the Peloponnese, please add Lysippos (86 years old, very high finesse, Prominent (he was the most famous sculptor of that age and made the statues of alesander) scholar and founder (both due to creating his canon of proportions) as well as obsessive (due to his attention to details) traits. He should probably be a friend of Chares who was his student.


Proposed solution II: inspired by @Rubidium ‘s idea for Aetolian families (see his comment here for more)

Make the three great families of Rhodes represent the old cities of Lindos, Ialyssos and Kameiros that merged to create Rhodes in 408 BC.


Problem I: Currently, the Hellespont sea tile includes both parts of the Aegean Sea and the Marmara Sea, and the Propontis tile includes both a large part of the Marmara Sea and bits of the Black sea near the Bosporus. This negates the role that the straits played as maritime chokepoints:

- A fleet in the Hellespont can block all four crossings from Sestos (to Ilion, Abydos and Lampsakos in Asia and to the Island of Imbros in the Aegean Sea. Realistically, a fleet disrupting transports crossing over to Imbros would have to leave the Dardanelles unguarded and a fleet stationed there couldn’t interrupt boats going to Imbros.

- Fleets leaving port in Lysimacheia, Bisanthe and Kyzikos go to the same sea tile. Realisitcally, any ship leaving one of the ports on the Marmara Sea would have to go through the Dardanelles while a ship from Lysimacheia would have time to move on to the next tile and vice versa.

- The same is true for the ports on the Marmara side of Propontis (Byzanthion and Myeleia) and on the Black Sea side (Rhebas and Philia). The Bosporus is a non-issue!

- A fleet (or even a single ship!) can spy on all neighbouring territories giving a player information about activities there. Realistically it should not be able to do so due to the peninsulas blocking the line in sight.


Proposed solution: split both tiles in two to make the straits important for naval movements.

- the Hellespont tile should be split by a line from Sestos to Ilion, the tree crossings from Europe to Asia should stay in the Hellespont tile, while the western part (with the Lysimacheia port and the crossing to Imbros) should become a new tile named “Sinus Sarosicus”.

- The Propontis tile should be split at the Bosporus, with the eastern part becoming part of the Pontus Euxinus and the western part keeping the name Propontis.


Problem II: Currently, Astakos has no port. This makes them unable to send troops overseas to support Phrygia and is wrong as there is a harbor big enough for any ship of the hellenistic era (it was used by the Ottoman battlecruiser Yavuz during WW1 and afterwards)

Proposed solution: add a Port to Astakos.

Problem: Byzantion has the Thracian culture, which causes characters there to have the distinct Thracian names instead of the usual Greek ones. This is historically wrong as Byzantion was founded as a Megaran colony and its ruling elite saw themselves as “proper” Greeks and the native Thracians as semi-barbarians.

Proposed solution: We have already proposed to create a separate Megaran culture. We think Byzantion should have this culture as well. This would give them no “wrong culture malus if they ever engage in diplomacy with Megara but will alienate them a bit from Thrace and Odrysia. All citizen and freemen pops in Byzantion city should change the culture to Megaran while the tribesmen, some slaves and most pops in Philia and Selymbria should remain Thracian, representing the native population that wasn’t assimilated.

Anyone who has additional ideas, please post them in the comments!

EDIT: minor corrections (thanks to @Undead Martyr for pointing out a mistake)
 
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We have already posted suggestions to make some important changes to Pergamon and the Attalis dynasty, the Peloponnese and Northern Greece, here comes the next part.
A little disclamer: we originally got many these ideas anticipating the Cassander patch and a DLC focused on the Greek states and the eastern med, but we've added more stuff related to cultures and religions for the new season! Dear devs, please don't ignore these suggestions!

Problem I: Bithynia and Astakos had a recent conflict that is not reflected by the game (A Matter of Bithynia generic mission tree feels inadequate, especially as the AI doesn’t do much with it). Zipoetes I tried to conquer it in 315 BC but Astakos received help from Antigonos (that’s how Astakos became a Phrygian feudatory).

Historically, Zipoetes I made a second try to conquer Astakos when Antigonos was defeated and killed at Ipsos. He destroyed Astacos and proclaimed himself King of Bithynia in 297 BC. Nicomedes I later rebuilt Astakos as his new capital, Nicomedia.

Proposed solution: add an Event chain OR mission tree for Bithynia that would:

- give them free claims on Astakos,

- make them declare war on Astakos if Phrygia is busy fighting in a war against someone else

- allow them to proclaim kingdom of Bithynia (claims on the whole Bithynia region, increased legitimacy) once Astakos is conquered.

- Allow them to found Nicomedia and move the capital there (perhaps only if Nikomedes becomes king).


Problem II: Nicomedes I’s second wife, Etazeta is in the game, but his first wife Ditizele is not. This is weird as the later Kings of Bithynia were Ditizele’s descendants and Etazeta lost the struggle for power and was expelled. Her being 18 at start is definitely too old: historically, her son was an infant in 255-254 and she would be 68 in-game. Notably, if AI controls Bithynia, Etazeta also often ends up married to someone else (sometimes even to Zipoetes I!).

Proposed solutions:

- Add Ditizele (Phrygian culture, average stats) to the pre-set characters list, and make her already married to Nikomedes.

- Have Etazeta appear later (with the stats she has now and the uncaring trait) via a customized, unavoidable version of the Discreditable Dalliance event.

- ALTERNATIVELY make Etazeta a new-born baby at start (this would randomize her stats and traits as she grows up and make it extremely unlikely that Nikomedes ever marries her).


Problem III: The borders of provinces of Bithynia and Bithynia Inferior look weird and have (probably unintended) consequences.

- It makes Bithynia (a local power with just 6 territories) have different policies in two provinces and NO grain and earthenware in the capital province.

- It gives Phrygia a tiny province of just one city and one territory that they struggle to develop as it is not worth to spend Influence on policy changes.

- It affects auto-generated missions: Bithynia gets the missions to conquer the two provinces and this puts them at odd with Phrygia. Enticing the governor of Phrygian Bithynia doesn’t give them Antigoneia and Pythopolis because they lack a border.

- It can lead to some weirdly-looking borders if Phrygia collapses: For example, if they conquer Bithynia and Chalcedon, a seceding Bithynia province will also control Pythopolis and Antigoneia Bithyniai with Astakos and Bithynia Inferior cutting the new country in the two isolated parts.


Proposed solution: swap the territories between Bithynia and Bithyna Inferior provinces (the country borders won’t change): move Chelai and Tarsos to Bithynia and Pythopolis and Antigoneia Bithyniai to Bithynia Inferior instead.
In order to make the province name clearer, we also propose to rename the province of Bithynia to Bithynia Litoralis.

This will result in cleaner and more logical province borders:

- Bithynia (Litoralis) province will consist of the coastal areas, split between of four small countries (Bithynia, Kios, Astakos and Chalcedon), all of them completely within one province.

- Bithynia inferior will completely belong to Phrygia, forcing them to spend less on policy change.

- Bithynia (the country) will have two useful tradegoods (grain and cloth) in their capital at start.

- Matter of Bithynia Missions will be slightly easier.

- If Phrygia conquers some areas in Bithynia Litoralis and explodes later, the new countires would have much nicer borders without inaccessible areas.

Problem IV: The Seleucids get a special invention reflecting the introduction of the Seleucid era. However, Bithynia also had a unique calendar starting with Zippoetes I assuming the royal title in 297 BC but they don’t get such a tech.

Proposed solutions: either

- make the Seleukid imperial calendar oratory invention available to Bithynia as well

- make a unique invention for them with a slightly different effect.

Problems (starting political situation):

- Kios starts as a loyal Phrygian tributary. This was not true historically: Mithridates II planned to betray the Antigonids and side with Kassandros. When Antigonos found out about the plot, he had him executed and that caused his son’s escape to Paphlagonia.

- since the 1.3 update Mithridates I of Pontus starts as a minor character in Phrygia. While he is a son of his father, king Mithridates II, he is not a member of the Mithridatid family. A player-controlled Kios can befriend and recruit him back, but even then he doesn’t become primary heir as he should be but has to be adopted into the royal family. Meanwhile, he is a citizen in Phrygia and can be employed in any office.

Combined, this makes it almost impossible to form Mithridatic Pontus as Kios by gaining independence, getting land and taking the form Pontus decision (this was the way to do it in 1.2).

Proposed solution to both: Make Mithridates start in Kios as the primary heir. Make Kios disloyal to Phrygia and give them an instant event with two choices:

- Either affirm loyalty to Phrygia and sent Mithridates jr. to Phrygia as hostage. This would create a very similar situation as now but with Mithridates properly recognized by the game as a member of his family and foreigner in Phrygia, that should reflect his status there better.

- Or launch the plot and defect to Macedon. Kios would stop paying tribute to Phrygia and ask Macedon for an alliance. Macedon would get 100 opinion on Kios, while Phrygia would lose 200 opinion, get claims on Kios and Antigonos should rival Mithridates II. If they later conquer Kios and either adopt the Mithridatid family or imprison important characters, Mithridates escape to Paphlagonia should be able to trigger anyway.

Problems (royal couple):

- Queen Artakama Mithridatid is the spouse of Mithridates II, but does not appear as mother of Mithridates and two of his oldest sisters (Mandane and Anzaza). Instead, she usually has one more (apparently randomly generated) child and often starts PREGNANT AT AGE 75!

- Mithridates II has the traits submissive and cautious. However, he came to the throne by betraying his father or other close relative Ariobarzanes II to the Persians and plotted to betray Antigonos. Giving him the deceitful trait would be appropriate to reflect this.

Proposed solutions:

- Make Artakama the mother of her husband’s children and make her infertile (as appropriate for her age).

- Give Mithridates II a deceitful trait.

Problem I: Lyttos has no port. While the city itself is indeed located inland, they controlled Chersonesos on the northern coast. The lack of a navy makes a siege of Knossos more difficult since they can’t blockade them from sea.

Proposed solution: Give them a port.


Problem II: Kydonia has forest terrain while the area controlled by ancient Kydonia was the Chania Plain.

Proposed solution: Change the terrain in Kydonia to a plain.


Problem III: some key cities that played an important role in the timeframe of the game, particularly in the Lyttian war and the Cretan war do not exist in-game. This also creates some tactical and strategic problems:

- Hierapytna border the “Mare Creticum” sea tile allowing it to be invaded from there, while it has only a port on the southern side of the Island.

- Praisos is boxed in, bordering only Hierapytna, and has no port (correctly), it has only one possible direction to expand, which is too much railroading.

- The existing web of alliances and feudatories cover almost the entire island; a war that breaks out usually involves all countries except Polyrrhenia and Kydonia. This is too early, the Lyttian war was in 220 BC, AI-launched wars on Crete in early game should be smaller in scale.

- Gortynia has not only two territories but also an adjacent feudatory (Tarrha). It usually becomes the dominant power on the island in a decade or two if AI controls all Cretan countries.

- Crete as a province has quite few food-producing territories.

Proposed solution: Add four more settlement territories. All should be city-states, most should produce food and have no pre-set alliances:

- Itanos, from the northeastern part of Praisos. Plains terrain, have a port (to give them seafaring heritage), probably produces fish. Reasons: Was an important rival of both Praisos and Hierapytna. One of the four major city-states of eastern Crete. Lasted independent much longer than Praisos and had, unlike other Cretan cities, more oversea contacts, particularly with Egypt. Tactically, adding it would stop Praisos from a dead-end as it is now: It would now have a neighbour to the east that could become an ally to secure their back or conquer them and get a port while risking that Ithanos calls in some own allies. Ithanos itself would border only Praisos, but would NOT be a dead-end due to the port and ability to expand overseas.

- Lato, from the northeastern parts of Hierapytna. Hills terrain, a port and a food tradegood. Reasons: One of the four major city-states of eastern Crete, shouldn’t be missing. Adding it would remove the historically inaccurate possibility to invade Hierapytna from the sea in the north, give Hierapytna a possibility to expand northward and give Praisos a second western neighbour increasing their possibilities for diplomacy or expansion. Was also the birthplace of Alexander’s admiral Nearchos, who was still alive (but in Phrygian service in 304 BC) so might later get a unique event or mission related to his legacy.

- Olous, from the eastern parts of Lyttos. Hills terrain, port and probably fish tradegood as Lato. Reasons Was (together with Hierapytna) Macedon’s most important local ally in the Cretan war. Had a temple of Britomartis with a wooden statue of the goddess allegedly made by Daedalus himself. That would provide some interesting flavor, especially since the next expansion should expand gods and religions. Had a border dispute with Lato. As another non-aligned city-state they would be a wildcard, able to strenghten any of the two small blocks on the island or even form an own alliance together with Lato and Ithanos.

- Lappa, from what are now the easternmost parts of Eleutherna and Koryon. Should have hills terrain, no port, and produce a food tradegood. Reasons: Was a key location in the Lyttian war until it was destroyed. Having it present between Gortynia and its feudatory Tarrha will make Gortynia less unstoppable and give a nice initial dilemma how to deal with this “roadblock”: befriend and ally them OR conquer them. If they are not allied with Gortynia or conquered by them, a player- controlled Tarrha would have it easier to declare independence from Gortynia and fight them off.

Together, they should create a bit more variety in the initial setup, allowing a third alliance to form on Crete (and possibly even a fourth one, consisting of Polyrrhenia, Kydonia and Lappa)


Problem IV: Crete was famous for their archers, but there are NO special bonuses for them in the game.

Proposed solution: Two new low-level military techs, available ONLY to the Cretan countries:

- Large arrowheads, +15% Archers offense. (The famous Cretan archers used bronze arrowheads that were notably larger than those used elsewhere were.)

- Cretan archers, -15% archers cost. (Cretan city-states should have it easier to recruit archers than anyone else.)

Problem V: The 1.3 Livy patch gave Cretan countires unique Omens. That means that while the hellenic religion in Crete is distinct from the rest of the Greek world, Crete itself is too homogenous. The omens (to be replaced with patron gods in the next patch) are the same for all Cretan countires and there are no unique modifiers to sacred locations.

Proposed solution I: We think these territories should get special modifiers and become religious sites:

- Knossos should have a “Eileithyia Cave” unique modifier

- Praisos should have a “Mount Dikte” unique modifier

They should increase conversion speed in these locations and make them eligible for the “sacred city” branch of the Pearl of Hellas generic mission tree.

Proposed solution II: Give the existing Gortynia and two of the cities we propose unique choice of patron deities if they are capitals:

- Gortynia should worship Europa (probably culture category). Reason: the Greeks believed this was the place where Zeus brought Europa and where he fathered three sons with her. Europa was apparently venerated as a Goddess in Gortyna. Her being the namesake of the European continent and mother of the first kings of Crete would increase the statesmenship

- Olous should have a worship Britomartis instead of Diktynna (still warfare, but with the Omen increasing naval morale instead of army morale) Reason: while considered aspects of the same goddess, but Britomartis represented the more maritime aspects, being venerated by fishermen and sailors while Diktynna was more venerated by hunters.

- Olous may also have to worship Dedalus (culture or economy category). Reason: he has allegedly made the statue of Britomartis in Olous.

- Lato should worship Leto (fertility goddess). Reason: The city was named after Leto (Lato in the local dialect), mother of Artemis and Apollo.

Depending on what a player who has unified Crete plans to do, getting a choice of these patron deities would give reason to move the national capital to a better location.

Problem I: Rhodes, Miletos and Halicarnassus start without strong allies (except for the Istros-Miletos alliance, that is useless in practice). They are attacked and conquered by Phrygia in almost every game. Even an alliance or defenisve league between them is not strong enough to help. This is especially jarring as Phrygia has just made peace with Rhodes, lifting the famous siege, and they have previously protected Milet from a Ptolemaic invasion in 312 BC.

Proposed solution:

- Halicarnassos and Miletos should be allied to Phrygia. Alternatively, either of them could instead be a puppet (feudatory or tributary).

- Rhodes should be guaranteed by both Phrygia and Egypt, so Phrygia can't attack them without cancelling it giving them a truce. (an alliance would be inappropriate as Rhodes agreed to stay neutral in a future conflict between Antigonos and Ptolemaios).

Problem II: The Greek territories and countries in Caria Litoralis have either Ionian or Agean culture. However, Doric Greeks, who maintained a distinct identity from their neighbours, lived in the area. As different culture has a modifier on diplomatic relationships and willingness to trade, the absence of a unique, common culture distorts the relationship the countries should have. There was a historical federation between the Doric cities, the Hexapolis, and sometimes one of them tried to dominate the others (like Halicarnassus under Artemisia and Mausolos)

Proposed solutions:

- create a new culture in the Hellenistic group: Doric. Make it the primary culture in Kos, Knidos, Halikaranssos and Rhodes and change a majority of Ionian and Aegean pops in these countries to Doric ( a few freemen and slave pops should remain Ionian and Aegean and Cretan to represent recent immigrants, merchants, mercenaries etc).

- Make the Doric Hexapolis a tier 1 formable. The decision to form it should be available to Kos, Knidos, Halikaranssos and Rhodes and require owning all four capitals.


Problem III: Karpathos is part of the Crete province and all pops the have Cretan culture despite being one of the Dodecanese islands. This also means that Rhodes get a governor position as a local power with only four territories, that feels unwarranted. It also means Rhodes doesn’t get the fish Karpathos produces in the capital province, that would have been useful to feed the city.

Proposed solution: Karpathos should be moved from Crete to Caria Litoralis, bringing it into the same province as Rhodes and its possessions on the mainland. If you worry that it would reduce the number of food-producing settlements in Crete, implement our suggestion to add four new settlements in Crete itself (see above).


Problem IV: Rhodes is driven to expand into Asia by the generic mission tree they always get, while historically they expanded into the Aegean and eastern Crete.

proposed solutions:

- Give Rhodes a unique mission tree to construct the Colossus, replacing the current decision and small series of events. This should busy them for the first few decades, and afterwards they might expand according to the situation. As

- Give Rhodes a unique formable (probably tier 2): the Nesiotic league. Should require the original Nesiotic league not exist anymore, controlling some key Aegean islands, and having at least 100 ships. This would drive Rhodes to expand into the Aegean Sea.


Problem V: The countries have generic families and several notable individuals from these cities lived in 304 BC but are NOT present in the game.

Proposed solution I: add the following characters:

In Rhodes:

- Chares of Lindos, the builder of the Colossus (male, late 20s or older, very high finesse and decent martial. Possibly founder trait (for building the colossus), and if you believe the legends, proud (due to being unable to live with the imperfection) and guileless (due to being tricked with the costs) traits.

- Laches of Lindos, who finished the colossus after Chares’ suicide. Male, should have high finesse, but probably slightly lower than Chares.

In Halikarnassos:

- Heraclitus of Halicarnassus (about 16 years old, male, high charisma and zeal, poet trait). He was a renowned poet, although only one of his poems survived to today, and a friend of Kallimachos of Kyrene.

Elsewhere:

- If you implement Sicyon in the Peloponnese, please add Lysippos (86 years old, very high finesse, Prominent (he was the most famous sculptor of that age and made the statues of alesander) scholar and founder (both due to creating his canon of proportions) as well as obsessive (due to his attention to details) traits. He should probably be a friend of Chares who was his student.


Proposed solution II: inspired by @Rubidium ‘s idea for Aetolian families (see his comment here for more)

Make the three great families of Rhodes represent the old cities of Lindos, Ialyssos and Kameiros that merged to create Rhodes in 408 BC.


Problem I: Currently, the Hellespont sea tile includes both parts of the Aegean Sea and the Marmara Sea, and the Propontis tile includes both a large part of the Marmara Sea and bits of the Black sea near the Bosporus. This negates the role that the straits played as maritime chokepoints:

- A fleet in the Hellespont can block all four crossings from Sestos (to Ilion, Abydos and Lampsakos in Asia and to the Island of Imbros in the Aegean Sea. Realistically, a fleet disrupting transports crossing over to Imbros would have to leave the Dardanelles unguarded and a fleet stationed there couldn’t interrupt boats going to Imbros.

- Fleets leaving port in Lysimacheia, Bisanthe and Kyzikos go to the same sea tile. Realisitcally, any ship leaving one of the ports on the Marmara Sea would have to go through the Dardanelles while a ship from Lysimacheia would have time to move on to the next tile and vice versa.

- The same is true for the ports on the Marmara side of Propontis (Byzanthion and Myeleia) and on the Black Sea side (Rhebas and Philia). The Bosporus is a non-issue!

- A fleet (or even a single ship!) can spy on all neighbouring territories giving a player information about activities there. Realistically it should not be able to do so due to the peninsulas blocking the line in sight.


Proposed solution: split both tiles in two to make the straits important for naval movements.

- the Hellespont tile should be split by a line from Sestos to Ilion, the tree crossings from Europe to Asia should stay in the Hellespont tile, while the western part (with the Lysimacheia port and the crossing to Imbros) should become a new tile named “Sinus Sarosicus”.

- The Propontis tile should be split at the Bosporus, with the eastern part becoming part of the Pontus Euxinus and the western part keeping the name Propontis.


Problem II: Currently, Astakos has no port. This makes them unable to send troops overseas to support Phrygia and is wrong as there is a harbor big enough for any ship of the hellenistic era (it was used by the Ottoman battlecruiser Yavuz during WW1 and afterwards)

Proposed solution: add a Port to Astakos.

Problem: Byzantion has the Thracian culture, which causes characters there to have the distinct Thracian names instead of the usual Greek ones. This is historically wrong as Byzantion was founded as a Megaran colony and its ruling elite saw themselves as “proper” Greeks and the native Thracians as semi-barbarians.

Proposed solution: We have already proposed to create a separate Megaran culture. We think Byzantion should have this culture as well. This would give them no “wrong culture malus if they ever engage in diplomacy with Megara but will alienate them a bit from Thrace and Odrysia. All citizen and freemen pops in Byzantion city should change the culture to Megaran while the tribesmen, some slaves and most pops in Philia and Selymbria should remain Thracian, representing the native population that wasn’t assimilated.

Anyone who has additional ideas, please post them in the comments!
You have there a lot of good stuff for improve the gameplay meta and historial realism, you should post this in "suggestions"
 

Undead Martyr

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Currently working on this and Lappa should probably have a port (also think you mean the western part of the provinces) as it did possess one historically. I'm also giving them wild game as it boosts archers discipline and that feels fitting for Crete.
 

Ketchup & friends

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Currently working on this and Lappa should probably have a port (also think you mean the western part of the provinces) as it did possess one historically. I'm also giving them wild game as it boosts archers discipline and that feels fitting for Crete.
Oh, you are right, we should correct that.
As to Lappa's port:
- We couldn't find any sources stating that Lappa ever had a sizeable navy.
- We were not sure on which side (north or south) the port should be. Lappa historically controlled two merchant ports: Phoenix on the southern coast and Hydramia on the northern coast. But in the game a territory cannot have more than one port. Where would You put it and why on that side?
 

pengoyo

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I really like the introduction of a Doric culture, the fixes to the Bithynia provinces, and the Mithridatid/Kios event idea. As for the Byzantion culture, that problem could be resolved using the Graceo-Thracian culture idea I mention below.

@Ketchup & friends request, I've included the following snippets from my Caucasian and Anatolian culture group thread that I think are relevant to this thread:

To be honest the Lydian culture is what first got me thinking about this back when I:R came out, but I had since forgotten about them. So thank you for reminding me. One problem with the Lydians is I don't think you can just move them as is into the new Anatolian language. This is because in I:R we are playing during the death of most of the Anatolian languages (the linguistic group, so not including Armenian). About 100 hundred years into the game, Lydian is thought to have gone extinct. And the coastal area is where this happened first. So I do think those people would be mostly Hellenic during this time (either through moving in of Greeks or cultural conversion). What could be done is rename the current in game culture to Aoelian. Then take all the Phrygian pops in the province of Lydia (plus some of the Phrygian pops in the neighboring provinces to help represent the previous dominant position of the Lydia) and convert them in to a new Lydian culture that would be part of the new Anatolian culture group. This would achieve a couple things: put the Lydian culture in the right group without de-Hellenizing the coast and have the Lydian culture be centred on their historic capital Sardis.

As for Pamphylians (and the Cilicians), they should probably lose some more of their coast to the Ionian culture.

[In response to why I made the previous statement]:
It's mainly because of this map (I'll admit I don't know how reliable it is) and following how I:R does it, but I would also be fine with a mixture.

As for other Hellenized cultures you mentioned...Some level of Hellenizing can be represented by the Hellenic religion, but I think the situation is more complicated than that. The Thracian language would exist into the Byzantine empire, so it definitely is around during I:R and Thracian is closely related to Dacian. But Greek had been spreading through Thrace and Bithynia even before Alexander. So if you wanted to make things more accurate you could put Thracian and Bithynian in the Dacian culture group and make a Graeco-Thracian culture to represent the more Hellenized people (spit balling a bit, but convert all the Thracian and Bithynians characters plus the Thracian and Bithynian pops in the cities and along the coast to the new Graeco-Thracian culture). Note, that this wouldn't leave much left for the Bithynian culture and it was probably the more Hellenized of the two, so, alternatively, it might be better for Bithynian to be left as it currently is (as a Hellenistic culture with it's current characters and pops).
 

Ketchup & friends

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I really like the introduction of a Doric culture, the fixes to the Bithynia provinces, and the Mithridatid/Kios event idea. As for the Byzantion culture, that problem could be resolved using the Graceo-Thracian culture idea I mention below.

@Ketchup & friends request, I've included the following snippets from my Caucasian and Anatolian culture group thread that I think are relevant to this thread:

To be honest the Lydian culture is what first got me thinking about this back when I:R came out, but I had since forgotten about them. So thank you for reminding me. One problem with the Lydians is I don't think you can just move them as is into the new Anatolian language. This is because in I:R we are playing during the death of most of the Anatolian languages (the linguistic group, so not including Armenian). About 100 hundred years into the game, Lydian is thought to have gone extinct. And the coastal area is where this happened first. So I do think those people would be mostly Hellenic during this time (either through moving in of Greeks or cultural conversion). What could be done is rename the current in game culture to Aoelian. Then take all the Phrygian pops in the province of Lydia (plus some of the Phrygian pops in the neighboring provinces to help represent the previous dominant position of the Lydia) and convert them in to a new Lydian culture that would be part of the new Anatolian culture group. This would achieve a couple things: put the Lydian culture in the right group without de-Hellenizing the coast and have the Lydian culture be centred on their historic capital Sardis.

As for Pamphylians (and the Cilicians), they should probably lose some more of their coast to the Ionian culture.

[In response to why I made the previous statement]:
It's mainly because of this map (I'll admit I don't know how reliable it is) and following how I:R does it, but I would also be fine with a mixture.

As for other Hellenized cultures you mentioned...Some level of Hellenizing can be represented by the Hellenic religion, but I think the situation is more complicated than that. The Thracian language would exist into the Byzantine empire, so it definitely is around during I:R and Thracian is closely related to Dacian. But Greek had been spreading through Thrace and Bithynia even before Alexander. So if you wanted to make things more accurate you could put Thracian and Bithynian in the Dacian culture group and make a Graeco-Thracian culture to represent the more Hellenized people (spit balling a bit, but convert all the Thracian and Bithynians characters plus the Thracian and Bithynian pops in the cities and along the coast to the new Graeco-Thracian culture). Note, that this wouldn't leave much left for the Bithynian culture and it was probably the more Hellenized of the two, so, alternatively, it might be better for Bithynian to be left as it currently is (as a Hellenistic culture with it's current characters and pops).
A Greco-Thracian culture could work for Byzanthion as well. If implemented, this culture should be the primary culture in Byzanthion and Thace. in addition to Byzantion, major cities and coastal areas in Thrace should change to it, representing the Hellenisation of locals and Greek settlers. Probably most citizen pops in Thrace as well. The existing Thracian culture should also be moved to the Dacian Group. Odrysia would keep it as their primary culture. All Tribal pops and some of the freemen and slaves should definitely stay Thracian (becoming wrong-culture group in Thrace and Byzantion). This would create some historically appropriate conflict between the native population living the old ways and the Greek ruling elite in both countries.
 

pengoyo

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Yes I like your refinements to the Graeco-Thracian Idea. It should be more pervasive in Thrace than what I laid out. It could create an interesting conflict, between the Hellenized populace and those still following the old way, especially if there some events to help highlight it (plus any new mechanics they add in the culture update).

Could add some event for Thrace about how they want to deal with the cultural divide in the country. And Odrysia could have some events dealing with their on going Hellenization.
 

Ketchup & friends

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Yes I like your refinements to the Graeco-Thracian Idea. It should be more pervasive in Thrace than what I laid out. It could create an interesting conflict, between the Hellenized populace and those still following the old way, especially if there some events to help highlight it (plus any new mechanics they add in the culture update).

Could add some event for Thrace about how they want to deal with the cultural divide in the country. And Odrysia could have some events dealing with their on going Hellenization.
Having Odrysia and Thrace with primary cultures from different culture groups could also generate more conflict between them. In the current version, Odrysia is extremely loyal to their overlords, partially due to being same culture. Even if Thrace gets reduced to a much weaker country then them, they duly pay their tribute instead of declaring themselves independent and trying to retake their lands as they did historically.
 

Tartarin

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Very good and clever suggestions from you, Ketchup & friends !
 
Rhodes and Caria

Ketchup & friends

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I. Spin-off from the discussion here, with specifical thanks to @Samitte who mentioned that splitting Rhodes in the World+ mod is a good idea.
We have also noticed that Rhodes is currently the only Mediterranean island with an area of more than 1000 square km that is a represented by a single tile in the game.


We have therefore decided that Rhodos should be split in three tiles based on the old city-states of Lindos, Ialissos and Kamiros (obviously both new settlements should still be owned by Rhodes):
  • Rhodos or Ialyssos: The northeastern part should stay a city and can posibly keep the name Rhodos (Ialyssos became just a village or suburb of Rhodes after the city was founded). The Port and the trade good (Glass) should also stay but the Terrain should be changed to Plains or even Farmland (better terrain for a city than Hills)
  • Lindos: Settlement in the southwestern part of the Island. Should keep the Hills terrain. Was known for exporting Wine and Figs historically, do the trade good should probably be Wine or Vegetables.
  • Kamiros: Settlement in the Northwestern part. The connection from Rhodes to Knidos should connect here instead. (Perhaps add a second crossing to Kos?) Mountain terrain (For better defensibility of the Chokepoint and in order to match the visuals on the map). Not sure about the Tradegood, has anyone else a good idea?


The overall number of POPs on the island should stay the same. Some pops currently in Rhodes would be moved in Lindos and Kamiros. (unsure how many exactly)

As we have proposed to make the Hexapolis a formable (in the initial post above), owning all three territories on Rhodes should be necessary to form it. With 6 tiles necessary to form it instead of 4, the name would becoe less confusing.

Consequence: If Rhodes is split in three and Karpathos moved from Crete province to Caria Litoralis province (as we proposed in the original post above), Caria Litoralis will become quite big with 15 tiles.

But the next proposal will solve this!


II. Move the three settlements in Caria Litoralis province owned by Phrygia (Mylasa, Chrysaoris and Mobolla) to the Caria Mediterraneus province. This would raise the number of wine-producing settlements there from 1 to 2 and olive-producing from 2 to 3 and add one dye-producing settlement). A greater number of POPs would benefit from these tradegoods.

This would mean Caria Mediterraneus would increase to 13 tiles (currently 10) and still start completely owned by Phrygia while Caria Litoralis would have 12 tiles (two new Lindos and Kamiros and Karpathos transferred from Crete replacing the 3 settlements moved to Caria Mediterraneus)

Caria Litoralis would include the 4 Doric countries (see our initial proposal for a Doric culture):
  • Rhodes (1 city and 5 settlements)
  • Kos (3 settlements)
  • Knidos (1 city)
  • Halikarnassos (1 city)
and in addition to them
  • 1 settlement owned by Ionia (Leros)
This will remove the Phrygia’s foothold in the province which encourages the Antigonids to start an early war with Halicarnassus and Rhodes to conquer their lands.


We think Rhodes and Phrygia would both benefit from implementing these proposals:
  • Rhodes will double the amount of territories in the capital province, get a defensible chokepoint to protect their capital and be less likely to face an Antigonid invasion early.
  • Phrygia will have the same amount of territories but one less province at the start to manage while a remaining province (Caria Mediterraneus) would become more valuable and offer two more exports possibilites (Pergamon would inherit these benefits if it gets release after Phrygia fails to conquer Corinth).

We would like to know what the community thinks about

  • The Tradegoods for Lindos and Kamiros?
  • How should the pops in Rhodos be split among the three territories?
 
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Samitte

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We have therefore decided that Rhodos should be split in three tiles based on the old city-states of Lindos, Ialissos and Kamiros (obviously both new settlements should still be owned by Rhodes):
  • Rhodos or Ialyssos: The northeastern part should stay a city and can posibly keep the name Rhodos (Ialyssos became just a village or suburb of Rhodes after the city was founded). The Port and the trade good (Glass) should also stay but the Terrain should be changed to Plains or even Farmland (better terrain for a city than Hills)
  • Lindos: Settlement in the southwestern part of the Island. Should keep the Hills terrain. Was known for exporting Wine and Figs historically, do the trade good should probably be Wine or Vegetables.
  • Kamiros: Settlement in the Northwestern part. The connection from Rhodes to Knidos should connect here instead. (Perhaps add a second crossing to Kos?) Mountain terrain (For better defensibility of the Chokepoint and in order to match the visuals on the map). Not sure about the Tradegood, has anyone else a good idea?
I would name the northern province Rhodos, since while Ialyssos was still a functioning polis and political entity, Rhodos was the more imporant in that part of the island. Kamiros as mountain is good as well, it and for trade good, Fish perhaps? The small islands to the west were part of Kamiros' territory, and fishing would be an important part of life there. I agree on the terrain for Lindos and Kamiros, but would keep Rodos as Hills myself.

Furthermore, I like the idea of the formable Hexapolis. With regards to Pops, something like this:

Rhodos: 8 C, 2 F, 6 S
Lindos: 3 C, 2 F, 3 S
Kamiros: 1 C, 5 F, 1 S
 
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Fish perhaps? The small islands to the west were part of Kamiros' territory, and fishing would be an important part of life there.
Could work, although this would be the FOURTH fish-producing settlement in the province. Leros and Kalymnos already produce fish, as does Karpathos which is currently in Crete province.
With Karaphtos moved to Caria Litoralis, Rhodes would already have Fish in the capital, but with a Surplus they could get spammed by annoying offers to buy it.

Perhaps split Wine or Vegetables between Lindos and Kamiros? Let one produce Wine and the other Vegetables.
That would still give Rhodos 2 food goods at start (as @Samitte proposes) but the two would be different.
 
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Samitte

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I wanted to add a small improvement for Trapezous:

1733 is where Trapezous is and was. Its currently called Kaine Parembole, which also did not lie here but to its west, it was a fort that lay near Hyssos.

So I propose Trapezous moves its fort, port, pops and city to 1733, and the province it currently occupies be renamed to Kordyle.

Did a quick mock-up to see if 2 more provinces in Rodos is possible:
1 - Kamiros
2 - Rodos
3 - Lindos

rodos.png


More then possible. Kameiros should recieve those islands, as they were part of its territory. Lindos had the largest chora and as such should be the biggest. The borders could shifted by a few pixels here and there, but it would mean we could have the Hexapolis which would be a nice tag.
 
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Another few minor improvements to ports and cities around the Aegean, I've included a screenshot and the locator code in the spoilers. (Not the one for the seagulls though, don't know how to find the correct one I'm sorry). Hopefully these can be added at some point when someone has a moment to fix them.

EDIT: There might be more of course, I think Sinope is also in a wierd location, but I got other stuff to do :p

Currently the 1974 Samos has its city and port on the Fournoi archipelago, where Samos is the larger island to its east. The port and city should be near where the strait connects to the island.
samos1.png

Code:
City:

        {
            id=1974
            position={ 2734.602539 0.000000 2092.429688 }
            rotation={ -0.000000 0.330839 -0.000000 0.943687 }
            scale={ 1.000000 1.000000 1.000000 }
        }

Port:

        {
            id=1974
            position={ 2735.262695 0.000000 2090.128418 }
            rotation={ -0.000000 0.285928 -0.000000 0.958251 }
            scale={ 1.000000 1.000000 1.000000 }
        }

Similarly, 4549 Pantikapaion and 4563 Phanagoreia are far off from where they were, and Pantikipaion should probably have a port, since it had quite a good one. There is a stray pixel nearby as well which I've marked with an arrow.
bosporan-2.png


Code:
City locator for Pantikapaion:

        {
            id=4549
            position={ 3195.343262 0.000000 2898.604980 }
            rotation={ 0.000000 0.903269 0.000000 -0.429075 }
            scale={ 1.000000 1.000000 1.000000 }
        }


City locator for Phanagoreia:

        {
            id=4563
            position={ 3226.028809 0.000000 2897.348145 }
            rotation={ 0.000000 0.183499 0.000000 0.983020 }
            scale={ 1.000000 1.000000 1.000000 }
        }

Port locator for Phanagoreia:

        {
            id=4563
            position={ 3225.452393 0.000000 2901.469971 }
            rotation={ -0.000000 -0.616513 -0.000000 0.787345 }
            scale={ 1.000000 1.000000 1.000000 }
        }

Next, 286 Chios and its port lay on the other side of the island, and there is a stray pixel nearby as well marked with an arrow:
chios3.png

Code:
City:

        {
            id=286
            position={ 2668.598633 0.000000 2139.771973 }
            rotation={ -0.000000 0.540560 -0.000000 -0.841306 }
            scale={ 1.000000 1.000000 1.000000 }
        }
      
Port:

        {
            id=286
            position={ 2670.112793 0.000000 2142.178467 }
            rotation={ -0.000000 -0.773048 -0.000000 -0.634348 }
            scale={ 1.000000 1.000000 1.000000 }
        }

270 Lemnos carries the name of the island, and should be renamed to Hephaistia which was its main town.
lemnos11.png

Code:
City:

        {
            id=270
            position={ 2588.850342 0.000000 2273.690430 }
            rotation={ -0.000000 0.468335 -0.000000 0.883551 }
            scale={ 1.000000 1.000000 1.000000 }
        }
      
Port:

        {
            id=270
            position={ 2587.551514 0.000000 2276.704102 }
            rotation={ -0.000000 0.932727 -0.000000 -0.360584 }
            scale={ 1.000000 1.000000 1.000000 }
        }

And 277 Skyros, same deal:
skyros4.png

Code:
City:
        {
            id=277
            position={ 2550.294922 0.000000 2172.473877 }
            rotation={ -0.000000 0.644139 -0.000000 -0.764908 }
            scale={ 1.000000 1.000000 1.000000 }
        }
      
Port:

        {
            id=277
            position={ 2554.064453 0.000000 2173.154053 }
            rotation={ -0.000000 0.759301 -0.000000 0.650739 }
            scale={ 1.000000 1.000000 1.000000 }
        }

And 280 Karpatos, which is the island. The main town was Poseidion (Lat. Poseidiun), and so it should be renamed to that. It also lay on the other side of the island, like so:
karpatos6.png

Code:
City:

        {
            id=280
            position={ 2790.432129 0.000000 1902.962891 }
            rotation={ 0.000000 0.357162 0.000000 -0.934042 }
            scale={ 1.000000 1.000000 1.000000 }
        }
      
Port:

        {
            id=280
            position={ 2792.835938 0.000000 1904.414307 }
            rotation={ -0.000000 -0.886612 -0.000000 -0.462514 }
            scale={ 1.000000 1.000000 1.000000 }
        }

And 263 Naxos:
naxos7.png

Code:
City:

        {
            id=263
            position={ 2637.745605 0.000000 2020.846069 }
            rotation={ 0.000000 0.563819 0.000000 0.825899 }
            scale={ 1.000000 1.000000 1.000000 }
        }
      
Port:

        {
            id=263
            position={ 2634.528076 0.000000 2024.257202 }
            rotation={ -0.000000 -0.909073 -0.000000 0.416636 }
            scale={ 1.000000 1.000000 1.000000 }
        }

And my favourite island 442 Aigina:
aigina8.png

Code:
Port:

        {
            id=442
            position={ 2488.287109 0.000000 2058.541504 }
            rotation={ -0.000000 -0.494031 -0.000000 0.541556 }
            scale={ 1.000000 1.000000 1.000000 }
        }

And of course 1981 Halikarnassos:
halikarnassos10.png

Code:
City:

        {
            id=1981
            position={ 2777.194336 0.000000 2039.369873 }
            rotation={ -0.000000 0.983366 -0.000000 -0.181636 }
            scale={ 1.000000 1.000000 1.000000 }
        }
      
Port:

        {
            id=1981
            position={ 2777.807129 0.000000 2035.800293 }
            rotation={ -0.000000 0.101458 -0.000000 0.994840 }
            scale={ 1.000000 1.000000 1.000000 }
        }

And lets not forget the famous coloniser 1973 Miletos (there's also a random Persian tree in the water there which you might want to remove):
miletos9.png

Code:
City:

        {
            id=1973
            position={ 2764.838135 0.000000 2077.678223 }
            rotation={ 0.000000 0.696130 0.000000 -0.717915 }
            scale={ 1.000000 1.000000 1.000000 }
        }
Port:

        {
            id=1973
            position={ 2764.714111 0.000000 2080.548096 }
            rotation={ 0.000000 0.994501 -0.000000 0.104726 }
            scale={ 1.000000 1.000000 1.000000 }
        }

And Peiraieus, Athens' port:
peiraieus12.png

Code:
Port:

        {
            id=416
            position={ 2501.586670 0.000000 2075.766846 }
            rotation={ 0.000000 -0.038782 -0.000000 0.999247 }
            scale={ 1.000000 1.000000 1.000000 }
        }
 
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Another small improvement:

The Bosporan Kingdom should control 4557 Tanais, and perhaps for the sake of conveniency also 4558. It also means there should be Bosporan pops at Tanais, from the article probably 75% of the current population, since they drove out the Scythians, but some would still have been living in the area.

Tanais could also have a modifier to Commerce income and an extra trade route, since it was at one end of a very important trade network linking the Black Sea and Hellenic world to the lands of what we now call Russia (these areas had an important supplier of raw materials and metals. been trading since the Bronze Age, also with the Baltic regions)

Tanais Delta:
+1 Trade Route
+20% Commerce Income

Those who control the Tanais Delta, control the flow of rare metals and other raw materials coming down from the Urals, Siberia, Central Asia, and Russia.

While initially it was believed that Tanais was settled by Greeks during the 3rd century, recent analysis of the last two decades of archaeological research done in the area have shown that the Bosporan Kingdom controlled the city of Tanais during the second half of the fourth century at the latest until around 270 BCE. When their colony then declined and was probably retaken by the Scythians. There was a cult complex, necropolis, and it was likely captured to control the important supply of metals and and other raw materials coming downriver from Siberia, the Urals, Central Asia and Central Russia.

The Tanais founded later is a different archaeological site altogether, not related to the above Bosporan Tanais. However both were probably called Tanais in the sources by later authors, wheras they were actually different places, both located near the end of the river but on different sides and populated by Greeks at different times.

Source: Kopylov, V. P., 'New data on the dynamics between Greeks and Barbarians at the mouth of the Tanais river in the final stage of Scythian history (5th-3rd centuries BC)', in Tsetskhladze, G. R., Avram, A., and Hargrave, J, The Danubian Lands Between the Black, Aegean and Adriatic Seas, (7th Century BC-10th Century AD) (Oxford, 2015)

Now what this means for the Scythian capital, I don't know. But all evidence points at Tanais being in Bosporan hands.
 
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For POPs in Rhodos I only suggest a spread of Freemen and Slaves and a concentration of Noble and Citizens in the capital.

But note that I am coming to this from perspective without much specialist knowledge.
 
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local modifiers and volcanoes

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NOTE: might expand these list if get more ideas

Ilion and Lampsakos: Hellespont. The same modifier that Sestos and Abydos have.
Reason: Odd that these two don’t have it already, despite also being adjacent to the Hellespont (Dardanelles).

Knidos: Knidos medical school. Should increase research and possibly pop growth.
Reason: Knidos was famous for the medical school, possibly the oldest in the Greek World. Research boost is obvious; the pop growth boon would represent better health due to the nearby school.

Byzantion: Golden Horn. Increases Fort Defence and Commerce income
Reason: Byzantion has the Bosporus modifier boosting the same, but Chalcedon and Rhebas have it as weel. Historically, Byzantion was considered a better location than the Asian side, due to the Golden Horn providing both a good port and an excellent defensive obstacle.
The second modifier would help Byzantium become a true City of the world’s desire.

Ilion: Crumbling Fortifications. Notably reduced fort defence, -15% or more. (Offseting the +10% from the Hellespont modifier)
Decision: Restore Trojan fortifications. Available to owners of Ilion. Replaces Crumbling Fortifications with lofty Ilium. (increased fort defence, POP happiness and loyalty)
Reason: During the Galatian Invasion, Ilion was easily sacked because it was protected only by the old iron-age city walls. The modifier would reflect this.
The decision is inspired by Augustus re-founding Troy (Ilium) and would be similar to the Restoring Thasos for Macedon or Laureion for Athens, except boosting Fort defence and POP attitude instead of production.
Thanks to @Riekopo for inspiration.

Smyrna: Restoration of Smyrna (time-limited, perhaps until 480 AVC)
Lowers building costs and increases migration attraction to Smyrna.
Santorini Volcano.
Should be added next to Thera. It erupted once again in 197 BC, during the timeframe of I:R (and is still active today), but not as devastating as the Minoan eruption.

(That’s an old discussion but there is new relevant info)
Lappa should probably have a port
We were not sure on which side (north or south) the port should be. Lappa historically controlled two merchant ports: Phoenix on the southern coast and Hydramia on the northern coast. But in the game a territory cannot have more than one port.
important news: @Trin Tragula confirmed that this is an issue of the engine.
Sadly the game does not currently support multiple ports for a single territory.
That means if Lappa (see Crete section of the first post) gets a port, it would be only one

Question to everyone:
Which side (North or South) would be better?

The Bosporan Kingdom should control 4557 Tanais, and perhaps for the sake of conveniency also 4558. It also means there should be Bosporan pops at Tanais, from the article probably 75% of the current population, since they drove out the Scythians, but some would still have been living in the area.

Tanais could also have a modifier to Commerce income and an extra trade route
If the Don river is made navigable as in @Licarious mod, (we support that idea) would it make sense to split 4557 Tanais in two? One on each side of the river. Would both tiles have that modifier?

Now what this means for the Scythian capital, I don't know.
Scythia needs a new capital anyway. Tanais gives them a Coastal Heritage, which seems not right. It should be any tile that would give them the Steppe Heritage.

great post as usual from mr. ketchup
Thank you. If you have own ideas for this area, feel free to post them here.

For POPs in Rhodos I only suggest a spread of Freemen and Slaves and a concentration of Noble and Citizens in the capital.
Will there be any nobles in Rhodes? The dev diary implies there will be rare:
On start not many Nobles exist in the world , the ones that do will be spread out in capitals and to some extent in the former Persian & Argead Empire.
And Rhodes is a small nation.
 
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Will there be any nobles in Rhodes? The dev diary implies there will be rare:
Well, I certainly hope there will be at least one POP for Rhodes. In my opinion every non-tribal state should have at least one Noble POP in its capital, and the stronger tribes should also have it. While Rhodes was a small nation it was by no means an insignificent part of the Mediterranean.

Besides, there is this book that would make a case for a Noble POP in Rhodes. :)

 
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