Improbable Inter-Theatre movement of Axis forces

[Tisifoni12]

Playing again as the US. More interesting as the Axis seem to be more challenging this time around. However !

Land a first army in Free French North Africa. Drive across North Africa, restore British control of Egypt, the canal, Palestine, Syria. Second army arrives and overruns Axis Turkey, while 1/3 of first army is detailed to press south down the Nile and 2/3 rebuild in Tunisia ready to invade Sicily. With Turkey capitulated move second army south to finish off the Axis forces in East Africa and the invasion of Italy goes ahead. Invasion of Sicily followed by Palermo landing and Patton pushes North. Meanwhile second army, East Africa secure, is railed back to Turkey, where a melange of Axis forces have pushed out from the one 'tile' they held east of the Bosporus into a blob, which the Allied forces in Asia Minor seem unable to contain.

The second army cannot do much about the blob of Bulgarian, Slovak, Turkish, Spanish, Romanian and Italian divisions in Asia Minor, but the Canadians have landed in Attica. Second Army sails from Izmir to Athens and proceeds to liberate Greece. A third army, not yet full strength arrives in Africa, is transferred to Italy and when Italy capitulates, Patton's first army heads to secure the Italian French border, Clark's third army to secure the border between Italy and now suddenly liberated Yugoslavia and the Reich. Bradley and second army are trying to push into Bulgaria to cut Axis forces off in Asia Minor. Meanwhile the Asia Minor Axis blob is getting maybe bigger.

All this is not an issue, but among the Axis forces facing the third and second armies are at least 35 Manchurian divisions. How did they get there ?

Yes the Italians had control of Suez for a while, but really, Manchuria the lift capacity to ship 35+ divisions to Europe, and the inclination to do so ? The risk of losing manpower and equipment at sea by a non-major power ?

I do think this needs some attention.

 

[Duke_Dave]

Yeah total nonsense. They should hardcore it in. That the Axis stick to their battlefields.

 

[atredies]

This is what you get when you make a "sandbox" game rather than hardcode/script.

 

[FOARP]

This is what you get when you make a "sandbox" game rather than hardcode/script.

Um...whether code is hard-coded or soft-coded is immaterial to whether the game is sandbox or not.

And as has been noted many, many times, scripting can also result in ludicrous things happening in-game because there is always something that has not been foreseen when the script was written.

 

[Tisifoni12]

That the Axis stick to their battlefields.

It's a matter of perceived self-interest and ease of access. Yes Hungary and Romania fearful of the might of the Soviet Union is likely to throw in with the Germans and fight beyond their borders in Europe, but they aren't going to merrily hop on ships and sail around the world to fight in South East Asia in the interests of the Japanese Empire. Similarly Manchuria as a puppet of Japan probably doesn't have much choice in fighting for Japanese interests, but would Manchuria or Japan choose to ship dozens of Manchurian divisions to Europe or even East Africa to fight for Italian interests. I'm pretty sure they would not. The AI does seem to want to pool forces within alliance groups.

 

[stjern]

Playing again as the US. More interesting as the Axis seem to be more challenging this time around. However !

Land a first army in Free French North Africa. Drive across North Africa, restore British control of Egypt, the canal, Palestine, Syria. Second army arrives and overruns Axis Turkey, while 1/3 of first army is detailed to press south down the Nile and 2/3 rebuild in Tunisia ready to invade Sicily. With Turkey capitulated move second army south to finish off the Axis forces in East Africa and the invasion of Italy goes ahead. Invasion of Sicily followed by Palermo landing and Patton pushes North. Meanwhile second army, East Africa secure, is railed back to Turkey, where a melange of Axis forces have pushed out from the one 'tile' they held east of the Bosporus into a blob, which the Allied forces in Asia Minor seem unable to contain.

The second army cannot do much about the blob of Bulgarian, Slovak, Turkish, Spanish, Romanian and Italian divisions in Asia Minor, but the Canadians have landed in Attica. Second Army sails from Izmir to Athens and proceeds to liberate Greece. A third army, not yet full strength arrives in Africa, is transferred to Italy and when Italy capitulates, Patton's first army heads to secure the Italian French border, Clark's third army to secure the border between Italy and now suddenly liberated Yugoslavia and the Reich. Bradley and second army are trying to push into Bulgaria to cut Axis forces off in Asia Minor. Meanwhile the Asia Minor Axis blob is getting maybe bigger.

All this is not an issue, but among the Axis forces facing the third and second armies are at least 35 Manchurian divisions. How did they get there ?

Yes the Italians had control of Suez for a while, but really, Manchuria the lift capacity to ship 35+ divisions to Europe, and the inclination to do so ? The risk of losing manpower and equipment at sea by a non-major power ?

I do think this needs some attention.

This rather shows that the AI is working, please stop making these non-sense complaints before thinking what the alternative would lead to! There were a large number of colonial asian forces deployed on the eastern front by the Soviet, no problem to get them there. Probably the equivalent of 50+ divisions. The allies deployed a large number of colonial troops in many places. In you game axis took control of Africa and thus had the possibility to shift colonial forces there and the AI was capable to do it.

The AI must be capable of somehow using its forces on a global scale among its faction members and this has improved a lot in recent patches.

 

[Tisifoni12]

There were a large number of colonial asian forces deployed on the eastern front by the Soviet

Could you indicate where these divisions were from ?
If they are the 'Siberian divisions' which arrived on the Eastern front late in 1941 then these are Soviet divisions transferred from Siberia, they are Soviet, not from colonies or Comintern members like Mongolia.

The Allies did transfer forces between theatres, that is the French drew in forces from their colonies, colonies they had held for generations, and the British drew in forces from the colonies and dominions, ANZACs in the Mediterranean, Ghanaians in Burma, etc. but again from colonies and dominions that had generations long connections with the UK.

The relationship between Axis West and axis East was surely more a marriage of convenience. Japan was conscious of its weaknesses and its focus was on its own interests and those of its potential allies/minions in the co-prosperity sphere.

If 35 divisions of Manchurians are sent to Europe, how are they equipped, are they re-equipped with German weapons capable to taking German ammunition, or must local industry re-tool to produce Japanese ammunition, replacement weapons, etc. Wouldn't Manchuria and Japan prefer to retain these in the East in case they are needed there ?

Yes the Italians took control of West Africa, but they lost that control and I have no evidence of Manchurian forces in Europe before US forces restored British control of the Suez Canal. I think that these divisions were sent by sea via the Indian and Atlantic oceans to Europe.

At some point perhaps movement of Axis forces between theatres if they are being really, really successful, but only if, and that should be something that can be turned off. If Japanese and Manchurian forces are deployed in East Africa and it is lost, surely their priority would be to get back to territory they hold, unless cut off.

 

[LostAlone]

I agree with the OPs thrust. AI factions shouldn't be pooling their resources to this kind of extreme. And it does actually have real effects on the game because manpower and equipment use is such a big deal. From the point of view of your war in Europe those divisions were fundamentally 'free'. You have to slog through all those extra enemies but the people you are fighting aren't even being damaged. It doesn't cost them equipment or manpower. So you face a harder fight, costing you more resources and manpower than it otherwise should, while the European Axis is only footing the bill for half (or less) of the scrap.

It does matter. There's a fine balance that needs to be maintained for the game to reasonably work. The arrival of extra free troops (looking specifically at Spain which seems to always enter the war in early '41 no matter what I do to try and prevent them) leads to the balance of the war being knocked off. Everything hangs around the eastern front sticking at least vaguely to schedule. I've had games where even when I launched a second front into Greece or Turkey very early into the war (40/41) it takes absolutely no pressure off of the Russians because the Germans just leave it up to all their other sundry allies, including Japanese and Spanish, to defend the Romanian oil fields.

The AI shouldn't be pooling resources like they are all one big country. Joining the Axis shouldn't mean 'Here Germany have 2 million of our men, let us know how the war goes'.

 

[Tisifoni12]

If Japan and her satellites/puppets in Asia want to help/support their Axis confederates (avoiding using allies) in Europe then surely they would open a second front in Siberia against the Soviets or seize more territory/pose more threat in South East Asia to draw allied, or Soviet, attention there and forces away from Europe rather than shipping dozens of divisions around the world.

 

[CharlieFox]

In one of my games as the U.K. Okinawa was garrisoned by Italian forces (and I never lost Suez or Gibraltar so they took the long route to get there)

Is not game breaking but I agree it would be good for immersion if European Axis and Asian Axis were more prone to keeping their land, air and sea forces on their regions.

On a related note, Japan AI should not send volunteers to the Spanish civil war either (at least on historical mode) . As far as I know (unlike URSS, Germany or Italy) they were not involved in the Civil war in any way.