Impressions from several 1.93 playthroughs

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pnt

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After a break from HOI4, I ended up playing 1.93 quite extensively, with more than ten full playthroughs until a peace conference (including all majors, and a few minors such as the Netherlands).

Let me start with the things I liked. Overall, I would say that this is the first time HOI4 felt truly complete. While one can argue that this time around the balance shifted a little too much in favor of the allies, it seems to me that this is a natural part of how the game evolves. But the overall behavior of all countries in historic mode (including Vichy France) now has a genuine feel to it. While the improved AI ability to make naval invasions was mentioned early on - I am not so sure if this particular aspect really reflects better AI or the lack of huge garrisons, which incidentally also defend against invasions. The allied AI did repeatedly impress me however, in adapting to my actions. If playing as the UK I was invading Italy, the US would land in Norway and France, for instance, and semed much more mindful of supply limits. This really made the game much more enjoyable.

So what are the issues? Well, one of the biggest ones is that at some point Italy reverted to the behavior of entering the war as soon as Germany invades on Poland rather than after the Germans at least cross the French border. This is not just a matter of flavor, but it sets up the Italian Navy for defeat against a combined British-French fleet, making it way too easy for the UK to secure the mediterranean later on. This is particularly important since the Italian AI insist on massing troops in Ethiopia rather than focusing on North Africa, ultimately leading to an almost inevitable collapse.

The other global problem is the extreme Allied focus on Europe. I have very rarely seen any country other than Australia being active in the Pacific at all. And when playing as Nat China, after defeating Japan, eliminating their entire army in the process, I saw them take all almost all of Asia (including India and Australia) less than a year later. It should be relatively straightforward to balance this a little better - in particular by deploying more US naval assets there.

And finally, a few details specific to La Resistance. Overall, both the spying and resistance systems seem to be working surprisingly well. There are a few quirks, though. In particular, territories often do not get handed over correctly, meaning that when control changes (in terms of the color of the map), the game remembers the previous owner. A simple example can be that US troops take the majority of a UK-controlled province, switching it to US control, but even as that happens, the British feel the effect of the resistance and need to garrison it. In this example, the issue can easily be fixed by giving control of the province to the US, which removes the resistance - but sometimes this leads to funny consequences. For instance, if China accepts the peace with Japan that releases Korea, it often leaves the latter as "Chinese occupied." And since AI China rarely goes democratic (at least early on), it means that there will eventually be a collaboration government in Korea. This surprised me at first, but I reproduced it playing as China.

Among minor issues, I never saw a spy with the linguist trait acquire a nationality. If this was just bad luck - the odds need to be adjusted. Also, the progress of some diplomatic spy missions resets on reload, which is a little annoying if one wants to save and quit for the day.

But in general, it was very nice DLC and I am looking forward to future developments!
 
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Hoi Neuling

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Get some 1.9.3 playthroughs too. Tested some nations like France, Netherlands, Australia, USA and such, but mostly Germany, esp. with the Espionage-Part.

And the Outcome correspond with yours, esp. in Asia and Italy. But one more thing I have noticed: The SCW get again to fast in Ending (End 1937 / Beginning 1938, not like it should Beginning / Mid 1939).
 

Ethereld

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I do agree with Italy, joining so early leads a lot of time to the loss of Lybia and the destruction of the Italian Navy before France capitulates. With a stronger Greece on defensive warfare Italy might get very screwed in the next patch being a totally useless ally.
 

Iskulya

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The game has indeed improved a LOT since 2016. A lot of people weren't playing the game then or don't remember how bad it was in comparison to what we have now. It used to be that the AI was so stupid that German divisions would all be below 50% strength before the end of 1940 because they were so suicidal in their attacking and so foolish in their conservation and production of equipment.

In my experience though, the AI has not really improved much, if at all, in it's ability to respect supply limits. I have this problem a lot as Germany. My allies will throw so many units on the Romanian-Soviet Border that it's not worth stationing any German divisions there because of the horrendous attrition. The situation is so bad that the war becomes easier if I tag switch to Italy and delete all their divisions. This is pretty bad and dysfunctional, imo.

The way the AI prioritizes fronts too is still atrocious. Here's one example from a game I played as Francoist Spain where I joined the allies:

I had slowly pushed through France, and eventually made it all the way to outside Berlin. There were divisions from over a dozen allied countries in Europe. It had gotten to the point where they clogged up supply and were incurring massive attrition penalties, so I withdrew all my units back to Spain. Then, the United States and Britain began withdrawing all their units from Europe. All of them. The remaining minors' divisions were no match and the Germans quickly retook all their territory and made it all the way back to the Pyrenees. At this point I began advancing again and made it into the interior of Germany, and then once again the same thing happened. Allied divisions killed off all the supply, US and Britain withdrew all their forces, and Germany reoccupied everything to the Spanish border once more.

Another common example I see is that when Germany is naval invaded they basically are entirely unresponsive to the invasion and continue focusing all their forces on the Eastern Front without making any serious effort to repel the invaders.

In the end, I agree though. The direction of the game's development is positive and there have been solid improvements to the AI. There remain a number of egregious issues that are in dire need of fixing/rework which include the way planning bonuses are implemented, peace conferences, AI adherence to logistics. This one is more of a personal opinion, but I also think they need to tweak the division template/width system. Now that the AI adheres to the 40 width meta I feel the game is worse off for it. The game wasn't really designed for 40 width. A division with 2000 soft attack and 2000 defense will finish combat exponentially faster than one with 200 soft attack and 200 defense. This really gets to be an issue because it disproportionately denigrates the benefits of air superiority. For CAS/bombers to really do their job, combat needs to be ongoing. At higher levels of soft attack, combat finishes too quickly for bombers to do anything. This can be a real problem if you're trying to break into a well entrenched enemy with an amphibious invasion.

I usually play SP with the Expert AI Mod set to historical templates(which are near 20 width) and it offers a much better gameplay experience with that alone.
 
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kettyo

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While one can argue that this time around the balance shifted a little too much in favor of the allies, it seems to me that this is a natural part of how the game evolves

Also while a historical game may favour the Allies a bit too much, most ahistorical variations favour the Axis and so they'll mostly still be very powerful there.

Balancing both historical and ahistorical is very difficult.

If historical balance is close to be spot on, the Axis will mostly steamroll the world in ahistorical.
 

Tsavong

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If historical balance is close to be spot on, the Axis will mostly steamroll the world in ahistorical.

Ahistoric tends to end in an complete multi-sided mess and often with complete axis failure in my expierience. For example:

1. France goes communist, germany attacks czechs,
czechs and france join comintern. Germany dead early 39 .

2. GB goes fascist, makes alliance with italy. Germany ends in multi-sided war against them and france, polish baltic slliance, dead.

3. Hungary , italy and austria form an alliance, Anschluss never happens instead war. Germany later declares war on benelux, gets crushed.

Or some combination of that.
 

kettyo

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2. GB goes fascist, makes alliance with italy. Germany ends in multi-sided war against them and france, polish baltic slliance, dead.

Never seen fascist GB getting into war with nazi GER before the endgame.


3. Hungary , italy and austria form an alliance, Anschluss never happens instead war. Germany later declares war on benelux, gets crushed.

This should not happen either as the anschluss is bypassed if Austria gets into another alliance.

1. France goes communist, germany attacks czechs,

czechs and france join comintern. Germany dead early 39 .

This is an interesting scenario. The commies of SOV+FRA+GER will get very strong if not stopped early enough. :)
 
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Tsavong

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Never seen fascist GB getting into war with nazi GER before the endgame.




This should not happen either as the anschluss is bypassed if Austria gets into another alliance
Obviously I cut the whole story into small notes, but:
Both happened in europa recently when I played ahistoric. One time as USA aiming for communist usa av and one time for the communist china achievements

the rome protocols and an german italian early war happen quite often.
 

kettyo

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the rome protocols and an german italian early war happen quite often.

I think it can happen only if anschluss comes after Hungary guarantees Austria but before they form the alliance. But in this case Germany will smash Austria and Hungary while Italy sits by and watches.

Maybe an interfactional war is possible if Italy or Hungary attacks an Axis aligned Yugoslavia or something but i never have seen that myself.
 

Tsavong

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I think it can happen only if anschluss comes after Hungary guarantees Austria but before they form the alliance. But in this case Germany will smash Austria and Hungary while Italy sits by and watches.

Maybe an interfactional war is possible if Italy attacks an Axis aligned Yugoslavia or something but i never have seen that myself.

Its kinda nonsense to say that something cant happen, when it just happened to me . So I now restarted the game to make a screenshot:

20201002222033_1.jpg


You see Italy is at war with Germany.

Edit:

20201002231605_1.jpg
 
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pnt

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Lot of nice comments in the thread - but two things. First of all, it seems to me that the historic path needs to be a priority, since history is what it is. If players want to do alternate history playthroughs they can easily choose which path each country should take and adjust balancing to their liking. Second, one needs to be way of outliers. A lot of things can happen, but what really matter imho is to make sure that things that happen often make sense.
 
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kettyo

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Its kinda nonsense to say that something cant happen, when it just happened to me . So I now restarted the game to make a screenshot:

Maybe Germany has started the focus Anschluss before the Pact of Rome faction has formed and it was formed while they were doing the focus.

That's a unlikely case but it is possible.

It can be avoided by adding the Austria in faction criteria to focus cancel conditions which isn't there but i wouldn't do it as maybe the devs intended so to have some small chance of a war breaking out between the fascist powers over Austria.