Impossible to win missions

[Gqarz]

Well, my only complaint are the missions where it is literally impossible to win... I'm not talking about those where you are out tonned 2 to 1 or more, but those where you are defending a base and are outnumbered 3 to 1 AND the enemy STARTS in firing position on the base...That and there are no turrets and a LOCUST can 1 shot a building. These missions are zero fun because you simply cant win... I just fought my 4 mechs on 12 lights who killed my whole base in 2 turns.

Yes, I know that if you tag a mech even once they fire on you. I get it, but you simply can't even be in position to hit all 12 enemies before they have killed enough buildings that you fail. Please rebalance these missions.

Solutions:

Add a turret or 5. When out numbered 3 to 1...you have to have help....

Start the opposition a couple turns from the base, not in perfect overlook firing position. I mean if the enemy can drop mechs right on the base, they would just drop a couple 100lb bombs on the structures (or a sack of potatoes for as strong as the buildings are)

Make the buildings a LOT tougher. One locust S should not be able to 1 shot a military or industrial building with 2 x LRM 5s.

 

[Morricane]

It doesn't help that bases are always situated in places that are easy to attack from *every single direction*, except that walled desert base...but if you don't get that one, these missions are obscenely hard and often really impossibe.
For some reason, bases you have to defend are much more often comprised of reinforced buildings instead of military buildings too...unlike enemy bases from the other mission type - which also always have turrets! >_>

 

[AussieGiant]

Sometimes there is no win. It's just the "least worst loss" that is available to achieve.

Sounds like you need 4 mechs with LRMs and all pilots with multi-shot. Ping 8 of the 12 then hope the remaining 4 don't have enough fire power to take down a building.

Choose mechs from highest to lowest fire power first.

 

[jj284b]

Sometimes there is no win. It's just the "least worst loss" that is available to achieve.

Sounds like you need 4 mechs with LRMs and all pilots with multi-shot. Ping 8 of the 12 then hope the remaining 4 don't have enough fire power to take down a building.

Choose mechs from highest to lowest fire power first.

And how exactly will that help you in situation where enemy has light mechs therefore will start first, and will immediately target the buildings it can destroy with single alpha? No matter what weapons you have, you will be unable to do anything to stop them from firing at those buildings... and as OP mentioned, for some unknown reason, buildings you defend are the weakest, while buildings AI defends have insane amount of HP...


and btw, same thing happens with escort missions sometimes.... escorted vehicle enters the evac zone, AI spawns multiple light mechs which start shooting immediately in their phase and kill the vehicle before you could do anything.... they will alway target the vehicle, even if your mech stood right next to them...

 

[Thorqemada]

I had some of these Missions and i wonder how they came back into the game bcs i did not have those in 1.2 where the Buildings had appropriate HP.
With such a low HP it is totally a game of luck that the initial positioning as well es the positioning of the reinforcements is such that you can "tick" them with shots so the AI childishly ignores the objective and starts to aim your Mechs.

These are "be the wack a mole game of luck missions" and yeah, not much fun for that!

 

[mjbroekman]

I must be extremely lucky then. I haven't lost a single defend base mission in 700+ hours of playing the game. It is either my skill choices (I try to have at least 2 multi-shot pilots, and at least two sensor lock pilots) or something else, because I have never really had a problem with opfor units ignoring my mechs after I shoot them. I basically get a free round of shooting them before they try to turn on me (multi-shot to draw agro from as many as I can target, focused fire from the rest of my lance), and if they take down one or two buildings in the base (so far, I haven't been in a defend base mission with fewer buildings than there are lances of enemy mechs) so what? As long as one building survives with one structure, I win the contract.

 

[AussieGiant]

"And how exactly will that help you in situation where enemy has light mechs therefore will start first, and will immediately target the buildings it can destroy with single alpha? No matter what weapons you have, you will be unable to do anything to stop them from firing at those buildings... and as OP mentioned, for some unknown reason, buildings you defend are the weakest, while buildings AI defends have insane amount of HP..."

@jj284b Understood.

Therefore I fall back on my other statement; " Sometimes there is no win. It's just the "least worst loss" that is available to achieve."

 

[Nakkivene]

If your multishot guys have master tactician, maybe it's your skill choices, but how would you have that early in the game?

I usually just don't play base defense missions, not worth the pay.

 

[jj284b]

i would say Devs should revert the building HPs for AI and player... give lower HP to buildings player needs to destroy, so its less annoying (Player usually destroys opfor+turrets then buildings, so if they were easier to destroy nothing would really change)

Then increase HP of buildings player needs to defend, so they are not immediately one-shoted by AI drops...

 

[KDubya]

There are multiple buildings that need to be destroyed before you lose, its not as if one gets destroyed and you fail.

I've had Opfor show up and drop a building in a round but I've mostly been able to get their attention before I lose a second, have never lost the third that causes a mission fail.

Its nice to be challenged and actually have to worry about a failure. The Target Acquisition missions are another welcome addition, I'm always at one or zero rounds to spare which makes it tense.

 

[Jade_Rook]

I'm convinced none of these missions is impossible. It all depends on the mechs and tactics that the player uses.

I lost one base defense fairly early on. It was fairly low skull, but it has been long enough that I don't remember exactly what it was. I took out the vanguard lance pretty easily, but then the reinforcement lance dropped multiple Locusts directly behind the base. There was also a second lance with multiple Strikers providing LRM support. Looking back, I pushed my lance too hard forward to take out the vanguard. They were out of position to defend against the reinforcements. If I could have dropped them, the Strikers wouldn't have had LOS and I would have won. My lance was too slow, didn't have enough long range firepower, and I pushed too far out from the base I was defending. Knowing where the enemies would be deploying would have also helped.

Now I generally keep two mechs back at the base on defense missions, expecting the outflanking lance. I had another mission where the enemy dropped two LRM carriers out of sensor range. They could drop a single building in a turn. I won that mission because I kept them from getting LOS. They had a pair of mediums (a Hunchback and I think the other was a Centurion) that pushed over a forested hill. I had one mech in the base that quickly engaged and a second that was able to respond within two rounds. My other two mechs were busy holding off Lance 3. I pushed the mediums hard enough that they didn't advance into the base and never granted the LRM carriers LOS to more than two buildings. The carriers also never targeted my mechs because I never engaged them. It was a really close fight and I am a little surprised I won, but it was a fun challenge.

Base Defense missions are rarely worth taking salvage, but they pay well.

 

[Kereminde]

i would say Devs should revert the building HPs for AI and player... give lower HP to buildings player needs to destroy, so its less annoying (Player usually destroys opfor+turrets then buildings, so if they were easier to destroy nothing would really change)

Then increase HP of buildings player needs to defend, so they are not immediately one-shoted by AI drops...

There are three classes of buildings: "Civilian", "Military" or "Reinforced", and in every case defense missions give you special buildings which have increased structure points.

 

[Amechwarrior]

I must be extremely lucky then. I haven't lost a single defend base mission in 700+ hours of playing the game. It is either my skill choices (I try to have at least 2 multi-shot pilots, and at least two sensor lock pilots) or something else, because I have never really had a problem with opfor units ignoring my mechs after I shoot them. I basically get a free round of shooting them before they try to turn on me (multi-shot to draw agro from as many as I can target, focused fire from the rest of my lance), and if they take down one or two buildings in the base (so far, I haven't been in a defend base mission with fewer buildings than there are lances of enemy mechs) so what? As long as one building survives with one structure, I win the contract.

It's luck and chance. That high walled desert base people have talked about, never seen it on defense. I can't even think of a base defense that had any wall and am constantly jealous of walled bases when I get them on assaults. I know you were already in the previous discussion where I found a Base Defense that was unwinnable by turn 5 after trying that mission a total of 3 times. Sometimes the RNG and base HP don't line up and it's just not possible to win even if you bring 4x multi-target pilots as the bases are just too lightly constructed for the firepower of a full medium Lance spawning just outside ML range of the exposed base or the far of support units are lobbing LRM fire beyond where you can reasonably reach them, or both of those at once. When this happens on Escorts, the targets are usually not on the map long enough to lose all 4 so it's not a mission failure.

 

[Jade_Rook]

The walled desert base is used in a couple of the flashpoints. I don't know if it is an option for procedural base defense missions.

 

[BobaFatt]

I just want to add that I don’t really have a problem with base defense or escort missions being all that hard. I know that feedback in general has more of a negative lean because people are more likely to talk about their bad experiences than their good ones. I rarely find a mission that I can’t beat (or more often, decide winning will be too costly and just decide to cut my losses). As far as I understand it this is intentional and I find that it is evenly spread across all mission types.

 

[Thorqemada]

One other thing is that some Missions are lost it seems bcs you lose some sort of bulding instead of all buldings...at least i lost some that still had some buldings stand.
And buldings that have 50 to 150hp fall fast...

Also if the Mission is to destroy a Base and you encounter an organized Task Force it is to me very bad AI behavior not to give the main objective priority!
I understand that the Mission will not work then with good AI behavior in that way it is set up - think i will avoid these missions if possible as they make no sense to me.

 

[Pherdnut]

Multishot is your friend on base defense. One hit and they go after you instead of the buildings. So being able to distribute fire and then tank for a round or two before you start focusing them down is important. It's nigh impossible to save all the buildings on a lot of those missions but you should be able to beat them if you're not running 1.5-skull mechs in 3-skull missions. Once you've learned the game well, you might want to reload occasionally but nothing's unwinnable if you're not jumping the gun on difficulty.

 

[mjbroekman]

For those that dislike base defense or escort because of the AI behavior, just think about how much the AI hates us when we drop on Assassination missions, ninja around the defending force to kill the assassination target, and then just hop in the evac zone. "ZOMG, that danged human player cheats! Doesn't even show up on sensors and then suddenly they're in firing range of the main target and I never get a real chance to engage them before the mission is lost."

 

[ThatGuyMontag]

For some reason I don't get a lot of procedural base defence missions: haven't had a one on my current career run.

That said, I got the walled desert base a couple of times on my first campaign run. I even had an optional objective involving escorting some engineers to turn on the turrets which I can't remember seeing since.

 

[Camicon Dachass]

For base defense, running one 'Mech behind the OpFor as they drop in (like a Firestarter boating SLs and MLs), lets you secure lots of kills by targeting the rear CT with called shots; and there's virtually no risk to you while you do it, because until you attack those 'Mechs they ignore you.