Impossible to start a war as a small nation without great powers interfering.

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Lazy Sorcerer

Banned
38 Badges
Nov 10, 2013
363
1.931
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Magicka 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka 2 - Signup Campaign
I'm shocked that you actually ask this and still want them to optimize the game in the wrong direction.
There will always be people complaining that AI does not just sit there and wait for the player to attack it, especially in games like this where getting outplayed by the AI is somewhat of an ego hit. There were two threads in the EU4 forum complaining about the AI blobbing too much - the example being France going into Italy and *gasp* Low Countries!
Its not that they should not bully minor nations. Like the case with Prussia declaring a war on me. But them interfering in every single micro war is just annoying and would not have made sense historically. Why would they care if I annex some random minor country that is already my puppet?
They are literally asking for a Treaty Port my dude. It's not like they are doing this for an Obligation from Burundi.
 
  • 3Like
  • 1
Reactions:

mursolini

Field Marshal
16 Badges
Feb 1, 2014
3.347
3.536
  • Darkest Hour
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Crusader Kings II
Does it really make sense for the British Empire to worry if Ethiopia gets too strong by annexing Burindi?
Yes.
But for me the main problem with this interaction is that it leads nowhere.

It's just annoying and has a very high chance of escalating to great nonsense.

Imagine if the player manages to call France or Germany to his side? Ready ww1 for burund
Well, WW1 technically was over Serbia, not that huge of a difference.

As I said, it is a bit hard to get AI to the point where it`s view on when it should interfere would match everyone`s expectations, but in principle it`s decisions are sound here. If Brits want africa for themselves, they absolutely should interfere in every conflict there, as long as they can get a freebie.
 
  • 6
Reactions:

Shaddarhim

Sergeant
11 Badges
Nov 9, 2022
75
36
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
This seems to be the correct behavior of the AI and I would even say that this is how the game should look like. Great Britain in this situation should get a boost to lowering the infamy due to the demands and gains by taking part in the defense war of a country, if you caused this conflict and it takes part on the side of the attacked state in the zone of declared interests, it has a bit of a cacus beli against you and world opinion and internally would view the conflict a little differently, Ethiopia caused the war, any territorial or other gains during this war, however, should significantly reduce the level of possible infamy for coutry who join on defender side bro :oops:

So for me everything works fine, but there is still should be a boost for the country that is taking part on the side of the attacked country when it comes to possible infamy from the completed requests.


This map shows that each of these countries Egypt, France, Great Britain should take every opportunity to take part in the war against you if you are the party initiating any conflict. Only very good relations with any of these countries or possible involvement in some large conflict involving them could make you annex a country under their nose, or even just your nose, without consequences.

I'm generally surprised that you don't see this or think something is wrong here from a historical, geographical, political point of view, but I'm shocked that you actually ask this and still want them to optimize the game in the wrong direction. The state that defends your vassal de facto after victory in the War of Independence becomes its protector without any penalties to infami and should have some boost to a smaller infami, be it a percentage or a certain value to other demands towards you because you give this war casus beli to the whole world opinion as an attacker.

From the map you show, even Egypt has legitimate reasons, unless, as I wrote, you do not have a great relationship with it, a trade agreement, a defense pact, there are no super internal problems or other important war to take part on the side of Burundi, even though Burundi does not borders with Egypt.
What you want is making small nations unplayable.
 
  • 3
  • 2Like
  • 2Haha
Reactions:

$ilent_$trider

Prince of Trivia
82 Badges
Mar 13, 2010
1.791
3.167
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Impire
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • War of the Roses
  • Victoria 2
If you are afraid of a GP interfering you can always keep an eye when they are busy with a different war, they will probably not interfere in yours by then. Also, yeah, I believe playing with an African nation should be pretty hard.
 
  • 5
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Oglesby

General
57 Badges
Jun 18, 2015
2.199
4.383
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
The picture is just an example it happens all over the world no matter where I try. You can do a micro war in middle America, in Indonesia or Arabia and some Great power will join. Mostly Britain tho. You can also see Austria leaning against me which is odd because they dont have colonies and dont share a border with me.
I have fought in most of those areas. I have had wars without outside GP interference.
I cannot tell if Austria is leaning against you, but I can see that the relations between the two of you is poor. Did they have interest in an area where you gathered infamy?
Burundi is located in the middle of Africa at lake Victoria so they dont have a port. Its also just a splinter of a whole state. If they wanted my land they could have just declared war on me like Prussia did but they just joined plays against me.
Burundi is adjacent to Great Britain. If they attack you, others might join. They were offered a treaty port into you to join your Diplo-play and their opponents are might be less likely to join. They would also get an independent Burundi out of the deal that probably likes them and fears their neighbor so likely to want protection.
1681933753045.png


Prussia also was just an example. In the end I was able to white peace them because they couldnt land at my coast but the fact that great powers often join against the player but its pretty hard to get them to support you just isnt logical.
I can only speak to the examples you provide and indicate possible reason why they did/didn't join.

I guess I am not seeing the same things you are. I have been able to get help as a minor and didn't have GP join against me often.
 
  • 2
Reactions:

Shaddarhim

Sergeant
11 Badges
Nov 9, 2022
75
36
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
There will always be people complaining that AI does not just sit there and wait for the player to attack it, especially in games like this where getting outplayed by the AI is somewhat of an ego hit. There were two threads in the EU4 forum complaining about the AI blobbing too much - the example being France going into Italy and *gasp* Low Countries!

They are literally asking for a Treaty Port my dude. It's not like they are doing this for an Obligation from Burundi.
At least I dont get an ego kick from being a dick on some forum.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Shaddarhim

Sergeant
11 Badges
Nov 9, 2022
75
36
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
I have fought in most of those areas. I have had wars without outside GP interference.
I cannot tell if Austria is leaning against you, but I can see that the relations between the two of you is poor. Did they have interest in an area where you gathered infamy?

Burundi is adjacent to Great Britain. If they attack you, others might join. They were offered a treaty port into you to join your Diplo-play and their opponents are might be less likely to join. They would also get an independent Burundi out of the deal that probably likes them and fears their neighbor so likely to want protection.
View attachment 969189


I can only speak to the examples you provide and indicate possible reason why they did/didn't join.

I guess I am not seeing the same things you are. I have been able to get help as a minor and didn't have GP join against me often.
I did fight a few wars and expanded but always under 25 infamy and earlier in the game noone cared.
I had no wars with Austria or interfere in their affairs in any way I actually have a good amount of trade going with them. They just changed their attitude towards me at some point and it stayed like that. Maybe because the Ottomans were in my market?

Yea I didnt provide more because I didnt want to flood the post with screenshots. Burundi was just the example I had in that moment. There were a lot of situations like this with other minor wars before. I guess the main problem is that GB colonized almost everything around me and when they were done they thought I looked tasty but then they should just war dec me. Them joining every war against you is just annoying and there is no way of telling before you start the play if its the case. Also France had colonies right next to it and they liked me for some reason.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Lazy Sorcerer

Banned
38 Badges
Nov 10, 2013
363
1.931
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Magicka 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka 2 - Signup Campaign
At least I dont get an ego kick from being a dick on some forum.
I did not imply you were a bad player at all. On the contrary, my point is that getting outplayed by the AI can be an ego hit since you implicitly realise that AI is dumber than you. (And it's always more humiliating to lose in a strategy game than something like a shooter or an action game.)
 
Last edited:

SacremPyrobolum

Lt. General
90 Badges
Jul 31, 2012
1.550
783
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Prison Architect
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
Yeah, you're supposed to be messed with as a minor. What are you gonna do, call Chris Hansen?

The solution would be to make getting messed with carry a silver lining. Sure the British made you a protectorate, but now you have access to their markets so you don't have to build all those tools yourself. It should also dramatically speed up tech-spread from your overlord so you can modernize much faster.
 

Namepending4

Corporal
56 Badges
Jul 26, 2022
33
69
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Prison Architect
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • War of the Roses
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
Really if the game was just more transparent about if they would join or not that would solve like the whole issue. In EU4 you declare war and you see GB not joining cause they like me, they're cruel and they have no man power. The majority of the problem imo isn't that they can join, but it is impossible to tell if they are gonna join or what they could be swayed by. Yea you can save scum it but that means redoing the last couple weeks in game. Like I guess you could say that people at the time didn't have perfect info for who was gonna join the war, but they also didn't have perfect info for the price of grain to the peasants.

From a gameplay perspective it feels bad when your like I'm just gonna annex this opm subject with no military and then bam France joins the battle.

Also I don't understand why you can't declare war on someone you have good relations with, but joining against them in a war is just fine? Seems bs to me.
 
  • 4Like
  • 3
  • 1
Reactions:

nuarbnellaffej

Lt. General
32 Badges
Jul 27, 2009
1.206
2.170
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Darkest Hour
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines
Really if the game was just more transparent about if they would join or not that would solve like the whole issue. In EU4 you declare war and you see GB not joining cause they like me, they're cruel and they have no man power. The majority of the problem imo isn't that they can join, but it is impossible to tell if they are gonna join or what they could be swayed by. Yea you can save scum it but that means redoing the last couple weeks in game. Like I guess you could say that people at the time didn't have perfect info for who was gonna join the war, but they also didn't have perfect info for the price of grain to the peasants.

From a gameplay perspective it feels bad when your like I'm just gonna annex this opm subject with no military and then bam France joins the battle.

Also I don't understand why you can't declare war on someone you have good relations with, but joining against them in a war is just fine? Seems bs to me.
Playing as a major it’s not sooo bad because, well.. come at me bro. But as a smaller country it does suck. Like if I would have known you would jump in I wouldn’t have stepped out of line.
 
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:

Rabid

Field Marshal
40 Badges
Jan 4, 2008
4.051
3.482
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • BATTLETECH
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
Really if the game was just more transparent about if they would join or not that would solve like the whole issue. In EU4 you declare war and you see GB not joining cause they like me, they're cruel and they have no man power. The majority of the problem imo isn't that they can join, but it is impossible to tell if they are gonna join or what they could be swayed by. Yea you can save scum it but that means redoing the last couple weeks in game. Like I guess you could say that people at the time didn't have perfect info for who was gonna join the war, but they also didn't have perfect info for the price of grain to the peasants.

From a gameplay perspective it feels bad when your like I'm just gonna annex this opm subject with no military and then bam France joins the battle.

Also I don't understand why you can't declare war on someone you have good relations with, but joining against them in a war is just fine? Seems bs to me.
The alternative to this would be making backing down less harmful, so maybe you lose prestige or pay some money but you don't have to give up an entire state or become a puppet
 
  • 6
  • 2Like
Reactions:

Woifee

Erzherzog von und zu Miregal
40 Badges
Apr 12, 2014
4.145
3.493
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
I think it's fine for minors to get bullied and thrown around. I don't want this game to be balanced around playing Ethiopia.
Sure, but the great powers propably couldn't care less if one small kingdom goes to war with another.

GP should bully minors, but I might think in a more meaningfull way that actually adds to their goals in the area. An obligation from buganda aint worth much to the brits.
 
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:

Oglesby

General
57 Badges
Jun 18, 2015
2.199
4.383
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
I did fight a few wars and expanded but always under 25 infamy and earlier in the game noone cared.
I had no wars with Austria or interfere in their affairs in any way I actually have a good amount of trade going with them. They just changed their attitude towards me at some point and it stayed like that. Maybe because the Ottomans were in my market?

Yea I didnt provide more because I didnt want to flood the post with screenshots. Burundi was just the example I had in that moment. There were a lot of situations like this with other minor wars before. I guess the main problem is that GB colonized almost everything around me and when they were done they thought I looked tasty but then they should just war dec me. Them joining every war against you is just annoying and there is no way of telling before you start the play if its the case. Also France had colonies right next to it and they liked me for some reason.
It would have been interesting to see what GB's attitude was towards you (there are some that basically say will interfere with most of your Diplo-plays). It would also have been interesting to see what GB's attitude was towards Burundi (there are some that basically say will likely join to protect).

Really if the game was just more transparent about if they would join or not that would solve like the whole issue. In EU4 you declare war and you see GB not joining cause they like me, they're cruel and they have no man power. The majority of the problem imo isn't that they can join, but it is impossible to tell if they are gonna join or what they could be swayed by. Yea you can save scum it but that means redoing the last couple weeks in game. Like I guess you could say that people at the time didn't have perfect info for who was gonna join the war, but they also didn't have perfect info for the price of grain to the peasants.

From a gameplay perspective it feels bad when your like I'm just gonna annex this opm subject with no military and then bam France joins the battle.

Also I don't understand why you can't declare war on someone you have good relations with, but joining against them in a war is just fine? Seems bs to me.
I agree that is should be more transparent and have asked the devs for that before. There are values that only become visible once you are in the Diplo-play (buried behind multiple tool-tip layers) that provide 'favors you', 'favors them', and 'prefers neutrality' scores that I feel should be visible before the diplo-play with a note indicating that the values can change (as they do by adding on war goals and when others join the diplo-play).

WRT the OPM subject, if France isn't getting a war goal when it is added (or it is one you can live with), and if they aren't your or your targets neighbor, there is a great chance that you can occupy and get the subject to submit before France has a change to do much in the war. At that point if they do not have their own War goal the action is over; if they do, then it is wait for white peace or if it is a minor thing accept defeat to France.

Sure, but the great powers propably couldn't care less if one small kingdom goes to war with another.

GP should bully minors, but I might think in a more meaningfull way that actually adds to their goals in the area. An obligation from buganda aint worth much to the brits.
It wasn't an obligation, it was a treaty port and a possible protectorate in Burundi (as they would be free, like you for helping and have a larger neighbor that they fear).
It wasn't as if Great Britain was absent in the region.