Impossible to beat late game Awakened Empire

[Kerovnian]

Dev's,

Isn't it just a tad lopsided and odd to have an awakened empire that owns what is essentially 5 planets (2 ring worlds) but has a military fleet with a 346k stack? He still has a higher naval capacity then I do with my 59 planets and stack of 154k ships. Thanks to the nerfed X weapon slots, I can NEVER match this. After the battle, he loses 14 ships and I lose all of mine.

I have tried three different weapons variations/load-outs for a better result and failed. I Can no longer increase my fleet cap as he is taking my planets.
I have tried more shield and capacitors over armor, more armor over shields, and a balanced setup. I have matched his weapons with the same load out based on the score screen. I have everything in the tech trees + extra stuff from the random leviathan encounters.

To add more insult, right after destroying my fleet, the AI splits his up into about 6 fleets I could manage =(

I destroyed and assimilated the other 3 awakened empires and beat the Unbidden.

Year: 2497
My Navel Capacity
1383/1383
Stack: 154,000
Ships- 95 Battle, 74 Cruisers, 105 Destroyers, 117 Corvettes

This battle is also moving at about 5fps on my Core I7 with 16gigs and a GTX 1070.

 

[Red Harvest]

What's the tech loadout of your fleet? Armor, weapons etc.

 

[fifthpint]

Too many battleships and way too few corvettes. Your fleet power also seems really low for your naval capacity mind dropping your layouts?

 

[Baldeagle91]

Do people still bother with corvettes?

Tbh battleships can be good in the numbers given, however cruisers tend to screen your entire fleet so having destroyers behind them can be useful.

 

[Searry]

Wrong fleet comp. Try long range destroyers and battleships.

 

[DukeLeto42]

Do people still bother with corvettes?

Tbh battleships can be good in the numbers given, however cruisers tend to screen your entire fleet so having destroyers behind them can be useful.

Against most enemies, high battleship counts are great. However, the XL slots of AFEs will crush your battleships and cruisers exceedingly rapidly. You also as a result of the XLs need to focus on the highest-range weapons you can get (or set up to drop your fleet directly on top of theirs to bypass this).

 

[The Founder]

Thanks to the nerfed X weapon slots, I can NEVER match this.

Then stop trying to. Fallen empries have 2 XL slots on every BB sized ship.
Stop trying to beat that. Avoid it instead.

To tell you any advice, first we would need to know WICH empire awoke, as all 4 have quite different layouts:
http://www.stellariswiki.com/Fallen_empire#Ships

But with the exception of the Spiritualist, they tend to be weak against smaler ships. Most ships and stations do not even have small slots.

Do people still bother with corvettes?

All that firepower of those lances and large slots is useless if they miss 90% of the time.

Against most enemies, high battleship counts are great. However, the XL slots of AFEs will crush your battleships and cruisers exceedingly rapidly. You also as a result of the XLs need to focus on the highest-range weapons you can get (or set up to drop your fleet directly on top of theirs to bypass this).

Some people report quite the success with Cruisers. Not because of the dodge, but because of the Computer behavior of "going in thier face". Wich results in the mcircling the enemy.

 

[Searry]

The game is completely unbalanced. The only thing you need is a mass of destroyers with the longest range possible, same thing with the battleships.

 

[nfmarque]

op can you share the save? i would like to see that amazing battle.
or some ss.

 

[Yenzen]

They're not impossible, nor is winning against two as a non aligned leader.

I've found that corvettes are extremely important. If you can't win battles outright, you can have 150-200 of them taking the heat from your Battleships until the corvettes are dead - then flee and rebuild them in a couple of years and attack again. The fallen empire can't, in my experience, match 1k-ish mineral income production, so it will eventually lose by winning phyrrhic victories.

Also siege its allies planets for warscore if it refuses to split its fleet. If it takes a planet, take it back the moment it leaves!

 

[Denjell]

Most fallen empires tend to have alot of strike crafts, build a couple of ships to counter these atleast.

Torpedo corvettes are also great at taking out thier biggest targets once the escort vessels are gone.

Most of thier FP comes from titans which murder battleships, swarm it with smaller ships and you should be good.

Drawing out thier fleets with single ships and drawing them into a fortress flower is also a great idea

 

[Kerovnian]

Here's a few saves to mess around with. Some of them have different comps and start at different periods.
To answer a few statement:
The hit rates are at 91% in the little circle.
I can't avoid a fallen empire that has awakened, declined me as a research partner (The Keepers of Knowledge) and chosen to go to war with me. This happens when fallen empires wake up, you either capitulate or go to war.

Maybe I'm just bad at loadouts? The last one I tried had zero point defense since the enemy was not using missiles. Heavy on shields and capacitors, while matching them with mostly Tachyon Lances and Photon Disruptors, with a few Gamma Lasers and Disintegration Beams mixed in. I had a slightly different comp to deal with the other fallen empires/unbidden and it seemed to work fine.

Just seems kind of OP for them to have so few worlds and a fleet capacity that I can't possibly match. Unless I'm supposed to fill my fleet with smaller ships. The enemy fleet is almost half battleships.

 

[Kerovnian]

They're not impossible, nor is winning against two as a non aligned leader.

I've found that corvettes are extremely important. If you can't win battles outright, you can have 150-200 of them taking the heat from your Battleships until the corvettes are dead - then flee and rebuild them in a couple of years and attack again. The fallen empire can't, in my experience, match 1k-ish mineral income production, so it will eventually lose by winning phyrrhic victories.

Also siege its allies planets for warscore if it refuses to split its fleet. If it takes a planet, take it back the moment it leaves!

This is actually how I did the fallen empire at the bottom of my map. While it was at the top fighting the Human Empire, I declared a war of freedom (I was forced to bow down to them at first when they awoke more powerful than I was) send in three fleets and a bunch of transports, took his main three planets and forced him to concede. I wiped him out later.

 

[Elothan]

I just won a War in heaven using the siege tactic.
I basicly created a bunch of 10-15k fleets, teamed them up with 10 gene-armies, and swarmed the system with them, think for the entire war I lost maybe one of those fleets.

 

[Antediluvian]

Don't let their estimated power scare you off as up until now i've mostly won against awakened empires having less than 2/3rds of their estimated power. I've found that an all kinetic, mostly long-range setup with similar ratios to yours (only more cruisers and less BB's) seems to work well against every AE build i ran into so far. Usually their numbers dwindle by 30-60k before they even get to fully engage me. I noticed that this way i always have 20 long range ships firing at them for every 1 tachyon lance firing back at me.

I'll share my build (roughly, off the top of my head):

Corvettes: 1 small autocannon, 2 small gauss
Destro's: 1 large KA, 1 medium gauss
Cruisers: all KA/Flak artillery
Battleships: Giga cannon/KA/gauss.

Oh, and i always go max shields, 2 shield capacitors.
Focusing on shields and kinetics allows me to also focus my repeatable researches to the highest benefit.

EDIT: An admiral with a bonus to weapon range very much compliments the above build.

 

[Secret Master]

The fallen empire can't, in my experience, match 1k-ish mineral income production, so it will eventually lose by winning phyrrhic victories.

Yep.

I can't always compete with fleet power or naval capacity (or support enough fleet power with my energy income given my fleet capacity to reach parity), but they sure as Hell can't build/rebuild like I can.

And when you own 100 planets, you can play for time as you wear them down.

 

[Shachza]

If you're worried about a confrontation, there's a way to tie up their fleet indefinitely, though it requires careful micromanagement.

Split your fleet into at least two fleets, with one being quite a bit larger than the other(s). Also, make sure that your split fleets are large enough to tackle the FE's starbases. As an example, using your 154k attack power:

Fleet 1: 100k
Fleet 2: 54k

Move Fleet 1 into one of their inhabited planet systems - preferably one without a lot of stuff near the outside edge. Fly around the outside of the system, doing your best to be on the opposite side of the system that the FE fleet will be entering (or just hold position, if your placement is good). When the FE fleet shows up, here's what you do:

1: Tell your fleet to leave the system. The FE fleet will notice that you are leaving, and will start heading out as well.
2: Stop your fleet from leaving before it actually does so. The FE fleet will notice that you are not leaving, and will start chasing you across the system.
3: Go back to step 1, and repeat the process for as long as needed.

Done right, the FE will continue to ping-pong at the edge of the system, the same as you're doing. Because Fleet 1 is bigger, and should be the bigger threat, Fleet 2 should be free and clear to go around pounding things into submission, clearing the way for your ground troops. If worst comes to worst, and the FE goes chasing Fleet 2, that will leave Fleet 1 free and clear in its place.

If the FE splits its fleet to deal with your split fleet. Well... that's what we wanted from the beginning anyway.

 

[Elothan]

One of my adversaries, as Xenophobic AE consistently split its forces today. Almost got my fleet that way. Almost.

 

[Banshee]

There's something really wrong with your capacity : power ratio. I had much bigger numbers with less ships. Try to get better numbers and range weapons.


Get yourself a big fleet and one or two smaller yet capable fleets with transports. Start the war with very low demand % - ask only for their home system, it will be about 20% or so. Engage or lure their main fleet with the big fleet. In the same time quickly go for undeveloped planets to get score faster. They should surrender soon after you hit the score (with grabbing their new planets) no matter the battle score regarding the fleets.
In the next war do the same, demanding their another best developed planet.
They can't really keep up after you strip them off their strongest systems.

 

[The Founder]

I can't avoid a fallen empire that has awakened, declined me as a research partner (The Keepers of Knowledge) and chosen to go to war with me. This happens when fallen empires wake up, you either capitulate or go to war.

Keepers of knowledge have the usual weakness to small ships. Only the Destroyer size ship carries any Small Weapons. But both escort and BB get extra tracking form the computer, but that only realy matters for Medium Slots.
Build primarily 1 Disruptor, 2 Plasma Corvettes. Normally the low DPS would be an issue, but the corvettes just keep surviving forever so they will defeat the fleet even with inferior numbers and power.
Support them with 1 Large, 1 Flak Destroyer against the fighters/bombers. If you loose them only after the fighters are done, it should be a good enough exchange.

Leave the destroyers at home if you do not engange a fleet with Fighters/or go for Stations.
Thier home system can take quite some time to defeat, as it has 4 ports and 4 sets of defense stations.

Shield Regen could blunt the damage from the Lasers quite a bit, do not let the disruptors scare you. But afterburners could also be interesting, as they will all go "stand off" and closing in quickly will matter for the corvettes.