Impose Ideology CB as a MegaCorp is stupid

[Limbojack]

Can someone explain why the heck using the "impose ideology?" CB as a MegaCorp creates another MegaCorp?

Why on earth would someone want to create a rivaling MegaCorp? Wouldn't it make much more sense for the CB to create a non-MC nation with the same ethics as the MC?

Yeah...This kind of annoys me (unless I'm missing something here).

 

[Nebbie Zebbie]

Forcing an authority is the dumbest thing. It really should just force ethics only, and change authority only if necessary.

 

[TrotBot]

what we need is a liberation wars UI so we can choose what to impose. sometimes i want to impose fanatic egalitarianism, but i don't want to get rid of their quirky pacifism. sometimes a megacorp does not want to impose its own authority type, but i do want to impose democracy. sometimes i just wanna impose utopian abundance living standards on everyone, but liberation wars don't allow you to impose living standards. allow us to choose what we are imposing, and include the option for living standards and even some policies (impose citizen rights for droids and refugees welcome).

 

[SirBlackAxe]

what we need is a liberation wars UI so we can choose what to impose. sometimes i want to impose fanatic egalitarianism, but i don't want to get rid of their quirky pacifism. sometimes a megacorp does not want to impose its own authority type, but i do want to impose democracy. sometimes i just wanna impose utopian abundance living standards on everyone, but liberation wars don't allow you to impose living standards. allow us to choose what we are imposing, and include the option for living standards and even some policies (impose citizen rights for droids and refugees welcome).

Exactly. We should be able to select whether or not to change ethics, authority, civics, policies, and species rights independantly, with a scaling amount of surrender acceptence based on how drastic the changes are.

• Ethics: Change to yours, shift towards yours, block one and reform gov around most powerful other factions, leave unchanged. Machines Intelligences can add materialist / remove spiritualist.
• Authority: Change to yours, shift towards yours, let them reselect based on their new ethics, leave unchanged.
• Civics: Remove any number and add any number of yours allowing them to fill any remaining slots with new civics of their choice. Corporate can add Merchant Guilds.
• Policies: Select certain policies they need to change to match yours, perhaps restricted by ethics. Policy is locked in for the normal 10 years and you get a notification and causus beli if they change it. Egalitarians can outlaw slavery, pacifists can force defensive wars only, materialists can legalize AI and spiritualists can ban it, etc.
• Species rights: Force minimum living standards to be at least as good as yours for your main species / all species in your empire / all species in the galaxy. Xenophobes can enforce maximum living standards on other species. Similar changes for other rights like purging and citizenship, and perhaps even certain kinds of assimilation.

Maybe allow empires to make some but not all of your desired changes to force a white peace sooner.

 

[Cat_Fuzz]

I have to disagree - the point of a liberation war is to enact your empires authority onto another. In the case of a megacorp, you’re aiming to exact the virtues of your ultra-capitalist society onto your opponent so it’s working as intended.

If you’re aim is to have a pliable client state who is willing to cede to your demands, you’re actually wanting to make them a subsidiary, which is a viable CB available to megacorps.

Otherwise, if you’re not looking to conquer them and take their assets for your own, nor wanting a subsidiary, then a liberation war is a step to create a potential partner with which to form a trade league with.

 

[legionof1]

Can someone explain why the heck using the "impose ideology?" CB as a MegaCorp creates another MegaCorp?

Why on earth would someone want to create a rivaling MegaCorp? Wouldn't it make much more sense for the CB to create a non-MC nation with the same ethics as the MC?

Yeah...This kind of annoys me (unless I'm missing something here).

One point that you are missing though not much of one, is that it aligns the empire in question to be an easy subsidiary subject. And subs are pretty good subject type.

Subjects at 25% energy tribute vs more room for branches is another topic.

Even if you don't subjugate them afterwards it's still aligning them with you for diplomatic opinion modifiers, mega-corp authorities specific conflicts aside.

 

[SirBlackAxe]

I have to disagree - the point of a liberation war is to enact your empires authority onto another. In the case of a megacorp, you’re aiming to exact the virtues of your ultra-capitalist society onto your opponent so it’s working as intended.

If you’re aim is to have a pliable client state who is willing to cede to your demands, you’re actually wanting to make them a subsidiary, which is a viable CB available to megacorps.

Otherwise, if you’re not looking to conquer them and take their assets for your own, nor wanting a subsidiary, then a liberation war is a step to create a potential partner with which to form a trade league with.

Maybe it's just my playstyle, but I find homogenizing most of the other empires to have the same authority and civics as me kind of boring. I want to leave some diversification in the galaxy, but I also want to shut down the slaving despots or get the xenophobes to open their borders.

 

[TrotBot]

Policies: Select certain policies they need to change to match yours, perhaps restricted by ethics. Policy is locked in for the normal 10 years and you get a notification and causus beli if they change it. Egalitarians can outlaw slavery, pacifists can force defensive wars only, materialists can legalize AI and spiritualists can ban it, etc.

i like all of this but i'd rather leave policies more open so that i can be a fanatic egalitarian whose interpretation of that extend to imposing not just utopian abundance, but utopian abundance for all. so robots get their standard upgraded to that too, and given citizen rights and leadership, and so do xenos. but hey, that's just a checkbox each person gets to do different.

i will say it would be nice to be able to force the liberation wars policy on my future allies too haha. and then at the federation level enforce it permanently when centralized enough.

 

[Bezborg]

In the case of a megacorp, you’re aiming to exact the virtues of your ultra-capitalist society onto your opponent so it’s working as intended.

The history of capitalist colonialism completely blows your argument out of the water hahah.

Ultra-capitalists will not seek to create clones of itself. It will seek to set up a regime that will give it free reign to execute its economic exploitation interests, and protect its economic exploitation interests.

Historically, these have been dictatorships and monarchies, the leaders of which are supported by the capitalist entity, to the point that is serviceable to maintain its interests. The purpose of these regimes, from the perspective of the grand capitalist, is to simply cut the red tape, and to maintain security and stability to the extent unobstructed exploitation requires.

Anyway... your logic is incorrect.

 

[Cat_Fuzz]

The history of capitalist colonialism completely blows your argument out of the water hahah.

Ultra-capitalists will not seek to create clones of itself. It will seek to set up a regime that will give it free reign to execute its economic exploitation interests, and protect its economic exploitation interests.

Historically, these have been dictatorships and monarchies, the leaders of which are supported by the capitalist entity, to the point that is serviceable to maintain its interests. The purpose of these regimes, from the perspective of the grand capitalist, is to simply cut the red tape, and to maintain security and stability to the extent unobstructed exploitation requires.

Anyway... your logic is incorrect.

My logic is not incorrect, for that is how the game mechanics for a liberation war work - you impose your ideology and government onto another.

Your historic example (as I mention in the post you quote) is a subsidiary - a perfectly valid CB for Megacorps.

 

[Bezborg]

My logic is not incorrect, for that is how the game mechanics for a liberation war work - you impose your ideology and government onto another.

Your historic example (as I mention in the post you quote) is a subsidiary - a perfectly valid CB for Megacorps.

Sorry, I still don’t see it.

A subsidiary is just another name for a vassal, in game terms. The East India Company set up vassals in southeast asia? As in they swore fealty to the british monarch?

America formed a subsidiary out of Japan? Or it “liberated” Japan and made a copy of the US?

Or Iraq? Afganistan? Changed authority and imposed ethics?

 

[Aepdneds]

I made a similar thread a week ago and @Cat_Fuzz proposed that megacorps could get a unique casus belly which would just get the ethics in line to open up new market possibilities

Should we be allowed to chose the government form for new empires after liberation wars?

I get that this kind of war is to spread your ideology, the thing is now that you are producing more megacorps when you are one yourself. Normally you would want to produce more potential customers, not more competition.

forum.paradoxplaza.com

 

[Cat_Fuzz]

I made a similar thread a week ago and @Cat_Fuzz proposed that megacorps could get a unique casus belly which would just get the ethics in line to open up new market possibilities

Should we be allowed to chose the government form for new empires after liberation wars?

I get that this kind of war is to spread your ideology, the thing is now that you are producing more megacorps when you are one yourself. Normally you would want to produce more potential customers, not more competition.

forum.paradoxplaza.com

My point in that thread is the same as the one I made earlier. I’m not against the idea of altering liberation wars to be more specific in what you’re trying to impose, but I doubt we will see such a change, hence why I’m fine with the mechanic as is.

Ultimately if you’re not willing to stamp your authority onto another empire, you need to vassalise them or conquer.

Personally, I would prefer (instead of a rework of liberation wars) a way to influence an empires government through non-warfare means. I had hoped such an opportunity would be present in nemesis but alas, I wait for the next patch to see.

 

[UltimateTobi]

I concur. MegaCorps should not create competing MegaCorps.
Or, alternatively, add the ability to have branch offices on MegaCorps planets as well.

 

[zZander56]

I concur. MegaCorps should not create competing MegaCorps.
Or, alternatively, add the ability to have branch offices on MegaCorps planets as well.

It would be interesting to allow Branches on Megacorps that are also the Subsidiary of the user. Maybe also provide a larger cut of the Branches of the Subsidiary. This would allow the user to make their Subsidiaries *actual* Subsidiary companies rather than just a strange vassal.

 

[legionof1]

Yeah an outlier vassal type is a weird execution from a logical standpoint, but well game design compromise. Vassalage is the only mechanism present for a subservient empire that existed at the time.