Import / Export of Goods

[TornPr1nc3]

Okay, I've made several cities by now and am loving the game. That said, I do have some questions that I've not yet seen answered entirely about the way goods are handled. Let's say I only have forestry as an industry come the time it is unlocked. I've done away with normal industry and haven't touched agriculture or the non-renewable resources. Obviously the forestry will ship to any commercial that could make use of it, but that doesn't seem to be a much needed commodity. If I were to zone agriculture, would this help commercial areas more or would they still require importing of goods? This doesn't appear to have been made clear.

What I'm getting at here, is if we are going to require general industry no matter what to get the most to our commercial (low and high density) districts, since general industry does absolutely (from what I can tell anyway) stock commercial sufficiently. Once I hit about 50k population, no matter what, I know I am in need of cargo trains and ships if I can get them on a given map to get everyone supplied. What if neither is available? Traffic becomes a nightmare. I love the challenge of it, I just wish it was more easily explained in what does what for whom. In wanting to make an entirely "green" city, it almost feels impossible as it stands. I have noted that slowing the aging in game down through mods makes it so that education comes at a much slower rate allowing for industry to survive. That has helped greatly, but it's not a total solution.

 

[Greenslade]

Yes, I agree. I am enjoying the challenge of working out how to get stuff from A to B, but I would like a little more information as to what kinds of A need to get to what kinds of B.

(while we're here, is there any word on an official/mod compatibility thing to enable us to get, say, multiple platform rail stations, or harbours with built in rail so that we don't need to use the closed-loop hack?)

 

[Greenslade]

Also: loving the game. Please be really successful and make lots of money and keep developing it

 

[TornPr1nc3]

Yes, I agree. I am enjoying the challenge of working out how to get stuff from A to B, but I would like a little more information as to what kinds of A need to get to what kinds of B.

That's exactly what I'm trying to discern. Hoping someone knows more about this that can give a more definitive answer.

 

[Puuh]

if I'm informed correctly, the specialized industry doesn't produce processed goods (that can be sold to commercial) but create raw products which can be used by generic industry to make goods or are exported. The generic industry safes money because it doesn't have to import material anymore (or at least less of it) and this raises your tax income. Also it lowers traffic coming from outside the city because unprocessed goods can be delivered more quickly from specialized to generic industry. But as far as I know specialized industry can not produce goods that go to commercials. It's all exported if there is no generic industry.

I think you can look at your import/export info where all the stuff is going and how much goods need to be imported/exported and then compare to what you produce

source: http://www.reddit.com/r/CitiesSkylines/comments/2yxfez/the_production_chain_in_cities_skylines/

 

[TornPr1nc3]

Appreciate that link. Okay, yeah that makes a lot of sense. It's nowhere near as ideal as I'd have hoped for, but now that I'm aware of how it works, I can plan for it accordingly.

 

[Person012345]

Spend a little time watching your city and following goods around and it should be clear how things work. There is at least one exception to the graph above though. Dino Oil (I think that's it's name), which I believe is a commercial gas station, will directly import "oil products" (presumably processed oil) rather than goods. I don't know if there are other exceptions.

 

[AmpsterMan]

What puuh says is how works. Furthermore, one doesn't need much industry to fulfill commercial demand. If your only goal is to fulfill local needs, then don't go crazy over zoning industry.

 

[Shiggs]

The curious thing to me if I look at my imports/exports, I noticed my city was importing a bunch of forestry products, so I built a a big forestry district and it has been up and running for quite awhile. Now my city imports even more forestry products than they did before, and it exports almost the same amount.

This makes no sense. Why if I am producing almost exactly how much is needed in the city, are the forestry industries exporting everything and the general industry importing everything? The exporting forestry truck could have just crossed 1 avenue instead of getting on the highway, and delivered his goods to exactly where other importing trucks are going. I mean literally the exporting trucks have to basically drive by the generic industry district to even leave the city. It is mind boggling. Something is out of whack for sure.

 

[AmpsterMan]

The curious thing to me if I look at my imports/exports, I noticed my city was importing a bunch of forestry products, so I built a a big forestry district and it has been up and running for quite awhile. Now my city imports even more forestry products than they did before, and it exports almost the same amount.

This makes no sense. Why if I am producing almost exactly how much is needed in the city, are the forestry industries exporting everything and the general industry importing everything? The exporting forestry truck could have just crossed 1 avenue instead of getting on the highway, and delivered his goods to exactly where other importing trucks are going. I mean literally the exporting trucks have to basically drive by the generic industry district to even leave the city. It is mind boggling. Something is out of whack for sure.

I had this happen to me too. It's a product of obtuse data display and misunderstanding. First, it takes time for the data tool to stabilize. Next, sometimes if you zone forestry industry, you have to make sure you did so in the darkest of the dark green; otherwise only processor buildings show rather than gatherer buildings. Finally, industry takes from all for different resources to make products so to complete the chain you have to provide the proccesed version of all for goods to be completely self reliant.

 

[Shiggs]

I had this happen to me too. It's a product of obtuse data display and misunderstanding. First, it takes time for the data tool to stabilize. Next, sometimes if you zone forestry industry, you have to make sure you did so in the darkest of the dark green; otherwise only processor buildings show rather than gatherer buildings. Finally, industry takes from all for different resources to make products so to complete the chain you have to provide the proccesed version of all for goods to be completely self reliant.

Yes. I have some processing facilities, but many of the 4x4 forestry industries just look like a square of trees. I also have a fairly robust ore extraction area, and a small farming area, but no access to oil yet. Its about 60/40 raw gatherer/processing ratio in the forestry sector.

It seems no matter how much industry I build, it is never enough. The demand is always sky high. Its almost like the different industries are perpetuating each other, but with nobody to sell it all to.

 

[AmpsterMan]

Yes. I have some processing facilities, but many of the 4x4 forestry industries just look like a square of trees. I also have a fairly robust ore extraction area, and a small farming area, but no access to oil yet. Its about 60/40 raw gatherer/processing ratio in the forestry sector.

It seems no matter how much industry I build, it is never enough. The demand is always sky high. Its almost like the different industries are perpetuating each other, but with nobody to sell it all to.

The industry Demand I've noticed, is more of a jobs demanded indicator. Pretty much if you want to make sure you keep your I indicator low, without over supplying goods, you need provide offices.

In general I've found RCI tells you not about the direct demand for three the zone types, but indirect demand. R means the amount of workers needed, C means the amount of commercial goods needed, and I means the number of Jobs needed.

Only way to satisfy R is through housing.

C and I can be satisfied in a multitude of ways. C can increase with a lot of tourists and decrease with comercial zones, parks, and unique buildings. I increases when there are many workers and decreases when one provides jobs via industry, services, offices, etc.

These are conclusions i have come to by not so careful experimentation; make of it what you will.

 

[Shiggs]

yea, the problem I am having is the industrial demand is too vague. Sure I can see that I need more jobs made available, but if the forestry market is already saturated, how am I supposed to know? The exports/imports tab makes no distinction between raw and processed goods. Furthermore there is the distinction between raw and processed goods for all specialized industry, but the demand for them is not distinct. There is also the problem when my Industrial demand is through the roof, but about half of them are going out of business because of a lack of workers.

So the problem is where I can see I am importing a bunch of goods from a particular sector, but cannot alleviate that importation because I don't know exactly whether I need more raw material gathering buildings, or processing buildings, and even if I could, I cannot directly control what grows where.

We need to at least have a distinction in the RCI demand tab. Have it expand when we mouse over it to see exactly what is demanded, ala simcity4 with the differing wealths. Maybe I am thinking too much in the simcity ways, but for me, that made sense. This doesn't.

 

[MayorofToronto]

Ive recently decided to abandon all industry in favour of offices as I do not believe there is sufficient information to commit to the infrastructure Industry demands. I also have this same problem my agri and forestry industries all import then export goods they are meant to be producing all the while generic industry is still importing raw resources. It seems like there is some sort of distance mechanic at work, regardless of the demand for resources from your generic industry if the game thinks it easier just to export something it could decide on doing just that. Doesnt really explain why industry is importing the goods its meants to be producing though.

And the import/export tab also highlites certain industrial buildings with colours there is no legend for, there is at least two very distinct shades of the same colour on various buildings.

 

[AmpsterMan]

The highlighted buildings are the ones importing goods.

I find in my current city for things to be working as intended, though the infrastructure costs indeed make it uneconomical to try and vertically integrate my industry. $1400 for a freight station is a steep price to pay, especially when it really isn't being used to support higher tax paying industries.

 

[Cymsdale]

If you go to the import/export info view, you can get the raw number of how many things are being exported (and if you don't have specialized industry, it's pretty much all goods). Having a large number of goods exported is a strong indication that you have way more industry than you actually need to support your city. I try to keep the amount of stuff exported at a low number (I still want to have a small buffer to handle fluctuation and growth).

Doing this will have a huge impact on your general traffic flow.

If you go into specialized industry, you want to try to build only a little above what you actually need, you also want to makes sure you have an efficient network to deliver the finished goods to the general industry. Once again, monitor the amount of exports to make sure you are not over producing.

I don't bother at all with ore and oil, since it just dries up in a few weeks anyway, it's simple enough to import it if your other imports and exports are under control.

 

[MayorofToronto]

This still does not explain why specialised industry imports the goods it is meant to be producing.

 

[DCT1080]

This still does not explain why specialised industry imports the goods it is meant to be producing.

Specialised industry manufactures goods with the raw materials it has under it, until they run out, which happens faster than you would think. Even specialised industry needs to import certain things to keep productivity high and to help them manufacture what they need. All industries need to import things regardless of specialisation and they all export when there are no commercial buyers in the city for their products.

 

[Shiggs]

honestly I think the whole industry/office situation was just half baked to meet a deadline, at least I hope so. There are obvious problems with displaying information and even problems with industries importing goods that other industries in my city are exporting.

 

[AmpsterMan]

If you go to the import/export info view, you can get the raw number of how many things are being exported (and if you don't have specialized industry, it's pretty much all goods).

Yeah i know, but it gives you a total number and then a pie graph. I would like a screen that tells me specifically how much of each is consumed/produced etc.

Though i do admit the stuff we have now is sufficient if we do a little paper napkin math