Implications and First Impressions of Common Sense

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Adrian Gaming

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So, I have only played the new patch for a short time, but already I can see the implications and first impressions of the patch and their effect on EUIV and, tbh, all of Paradox's games. I am going to list them below and see if anyone else agrees with me and I will explain some stuff.

1. The Influence of Sea Power upon History: It has occurred to me that the build time changes for navies in Common Sense are, to be honest, STAGGERING: where before losses in your navy's ranks could be replaced in a relatively short time (while at war and especially during peacetime), now players must be all the more careful to preserve their naval strength because, put simply, ships take a long time to build. For navy-heavy countries like the Scandinavian countries, Merchant republics, Mediterranean powers like North Africa and Anatolia, and the Iberian kingdoms, maintaining an efficient and large navy and keeping it alive is absolutely key, if not the most single important factor, in maintaining hegemony across the globe or even in your local sphere. I am playing Genoa currently and it is difficult to maintain hegemony because of my small naval force limit but more so because I know that one decisive naval battle can destroy my empire.

2. To the Forts!: The fort system and the new ways in which wars must be fought is absolutely brilliant; it combines the depth of MotE without going too far in that direction or even to HoI-levels (some of us wish for more MotE influence, but what can you do?)

However, the system does have its kinks and in time can be perfected, but I should note that forts perhaps need to serve more of a civil function in addition to being military strongholds; often forts and castles were built primarily as deterrents against rebellion and not always for war, and in the current version of Common Sense they do nothing to local unrest (perhaps this should be remedied).

3. Might makes right.. oh wait.. it doesn't: The tall vs. wide mechanics are ABSOLUTELY refreshing, and it really changes the game of EUIV forever. Any country has a chance now, and it is absolutely amazing to see new countries like Albania and Trebizond, Ragusa and Mantua actually survive and be able to compete with surrounding powers. It also makes the player appreciate small powers like Genoa who aren't powerful, must be tactical, and never are really boring because they can be annihilated instantly: it keeps the players thinking and on their toes.

I must say that Paradox has also set a precedent for any future grand strategy game it makes: development and internal tall vs wide balancing must be included in all future games. I fear that if it is not, other grand strategy games will meet the same fate EUIV was meeting: being boring and becoming a blobfest. I must admit that Victoria 2 was an early champion of its time: its population and economy mechanics are refreshing to this day, and many of us play that game because of its freshness every single time you load it up.

EUIV now has this medal: its refreshing. I can see how every game is different and how every move can lead to ones that the player has never seen before. This would be nice to see in HoI IV and beyond where the internal development of countries leads to outstanding and challenging games every and all times that the game is played. Paradox has proven with EUIV and Vic2 that this system of internal development is possible and that it DOESN'T want its game to be a blobfest, so in truth, to make a grand strategy without internal development may just not be worth the name of grand strategy. CK2 to a lesser extent has this system of development (not like Vic2 and EUIV though) and I must admit that there are recent comments in the past six months that state CK2 is a blobfest (I must agree).

4. Time is everything: In CS, the time to build things and for basically everything is different (usually increased). Manpower takes longer to recover, coring takes longer, points take longer to rack up because you're spending it on other things, everything eventually depends on time. I feel this is a good shift in the direction of balancing because time cannot be bought, bullied, reasoned, or bargained with: it just is. Coalitions need time to disperse, rebels need time to settle, men need time to grow, and countries need times of peace. While time was a factor in EUIV before, I feel that with CS time is much much more important.

5. Bugs and Performance: You may have heard this already, but there is a performance and bug problem going on right now with CS. It's not terrible, but could be addressed. But we have faith and patience, don't worry. =)
--------------------------

In conclusion Paradox, bravo. You have outdone yourself. I am going to go build a Genoese empire now (I want to take Malta and go into North Africa too). Wish me luck, and thank you for the DLC and listening to our concerns. Please take our money =)

A291DDF8356EEEDB9CD84B1F35B06E9881E4D34E
 
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I really like the changes too. I still have to be completely sold on the new cost of coring and diplo annexing but until I play to the late game I'm keeping an open mind: the 50% discount it's really huge but I only kicks in the the later stages of the game. I would prefer a scaling discount form the earlier phase of the game: e.g. from admin 10 a 10% discount that increase to 50% as the tech goes up.

Anyway I'm playing with Genoa too and it's really a fun and scary campaign. My plan was to attack Aragon but the iberian wedding kicked in and now I have to deal with a huge power block: Castile + Aragon + Naples + Portugal + Burgundy.
PS: Burgundy defeated France during his first war!
 
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(...)

4. Time is everything: In CS, the time to build things and for basically everything is different (usually increased). Manpower takes longer to recover, coring takes longer, points take longer to rack up because you're spending it on other things, everything eventually depends on time. I feel this is a good shift in the direction of balancing because time cannot be bought, bullied, reasoned, or bargained with: it just is. Coalitions need time to disperse, rebels need time to settle, men need time to grow, and countries need times of peace. While time was a factor in EUIV before, I feel that with CS time is much much more important.

(...)

It also means it is no longer boring to play in XVIII century. I have the same feeling - everything takes longer and costs higher (money finally is important - and forts maintenance scales fine with higher income later in the game). This way, it's harder to run out of goals/enemies in the middle of the game. I agree with all of Your points on changes.


And it seems to me, that player choices are more important, esp. when it comes to ideas/advisors etc. - because of raised coring/diploannexing costs, removing unique buildings, and relatively high cost of development.


The game is a bit more challenging = more fun.
 
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I'm in love with the new fort mechanics but unrest and rebellions get too many occupations too fast now, (and each of them gets + separatism/nationalism when occupied which is really annoying) and manpower is very very scarce, In my Genoa game I was forced to sit on 0 manpower for the entire time (I only played till 1500 though) and it isn't because of wars but because of fighting rebels in the Crimea, islands and at home, I only claimed like 5 provinces in 50 years (3 in Crimea and 2 in Italy) Furthermore 1/2 of my army was mercs all the time because manpower.... Also monarch points are really scarce now, I wanted to try out the development but I could not afford any meaningful amount of it despite being backward and tech and only taking 5 provinces. And I did not have enough points to put into ideas :/.

It was a good idea to make using your monarch points more important and a more strategic process due to their scarcity, but I feel like that they should be a bit less scarce just to allow some flexibility and development. I don't support mass blobbing but the coring costs are quite overboard, I don't mind AE increases but ADM point increase for coring seems a bit more of an 'artifical' restriction.

Of course it may just be me, in time I may get used to this. I never complained about increased coring costs and other things before, but now I started noticing it and it affected my play-style significantly. Overall I really like this DLC and patch but some things need a little change. I am not suggesting to return to the old monarch power abundance and things, just that the current change was a bit too large of a change.
 

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One thing with regards to forts and fast rebel occupations I would like to point out;
Provinces within the Zone of Control of a fort will NOT suffer any ill effects from being occupied by rebels.

We're working on improving the information you get on this in-game.
 
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One thing to note regarding naval build times is that the buildings massively speed them up. Devoting some building slots to shipyards is a must if you're expecting to have to replace your navy.
 
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I'm in love with the new fort mechanics but unrest and rebellions get too many occupations too fast now, (and each of them gets + separatism/nationalism when occupied which is really annoying) and manpower is very very scarce, In my Genoa game I was forced to sit on 0 manpower for the entire time (I only played till 1500 though) and it isn't because of wars but because of fighting rebels in the Crimea, islands and at home, I only claimed like 5 provinces in 50 years (3 in Crimea and 2 in Italy) Furthermore 1/2 of my army was mercs all the time because manpower.... Also monarch points are really scarce now, I wanted to try out the development but I could not afford any meaningful amount of it despite being backward and tech and only taking 5 provinces. And I did not have enough points to put into ideas :/.
I'm playing as Genoa too but I have a completely different experience. I'm around 1480 and I have claimed about 6 provinces in Italy (Firenze, Pisa, Siena and 3 more) + 3 province from Byzantium + Theodoro. Untill now I wasn't allied to any great power (by choice) but probably I need to exploit France in order to break the Castile + Aragon + Naples + Portugal + Burgundy power block.

I'm on par on all techs and just started the plutocratic idea group + used some military points on provinces development. Republics can generate quite a lot of monarch points if you handle the republican tradition correctly.

In order to counter rebels I usually:
1 - increase autonomy in the newly acquired provinces and on old provinces with different religion
2 - decrease war exhaustion
3 - hire a theologian (remember that now you can reroll advisors)
I only had 2 rebellions since the start of the game.
 
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I hope the game is now really shines in later eras. I expect later start dates to be broken (no one plays later dates so Paradox doesn't spend time on it so now it's broken so no one plays it...) but I hope full campaign to be finished because of rage, not because I'm bored.
 

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One thing with regards to forts and fast rebel occupations I would like to point out;
Provinces within the Zone of Control of a fort will NOT suffer any ill effects from being occupied by rebels.

We're working on improving the information you get on this in-game.

Thank you for this information! Too bad its not going to be on the first hot fix. :(
 

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I really like the changes to, but I feel that development needs some tweaking. I find myself not really developing much, since monarch points are often super scarce. Maybe make better rulers more common? give more ways to get points in the style of polish election and humiliation? it's not BAD but I feel it needs some tweaking.

But it does make things Massively more strategic. YAY! they do need to work on the nations that are built for blobbing though. I feel the ottos for example Should blob, but they seem unable probably because of coring costs. Maybe missions give special claims that give the minus 25? or more reduced coiring costs for a few years? another thing I think needs some tweaking.
 

Adrian Gaming

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I must agree with all people on the development and coring costs, and although it would be nice to have the costs reduced a bit and the game to take a stray away from monarch points, I am cool with the current system.

Bugs and optimization is my concern for right now.
 
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Jephery

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Regarding point 3, tall vs wide is not very well balanced since you get development much much cheaper from coring (10 per dev instead of 50+), if you're playing in such a way that you almost always get the chance to spend mp on coring and integration instead of development.

Development in a conquest heavy game is only really useful for when you're capping out on military points (almost everyone constantly caps out on mil points) and just sink it into manpower development.

Still, nice to be able to do something with MP when you're not going for a conquest game.
 

Thrake

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You forgot a couple of important changes, too, so let me add to your first post.

Forts: you mentionned it already, but did not say anything about... Navies. Now, it makes a lot more sense to have a navy; being able to land men behind the zoneof control of a fort is a powerful strategic advantage.

Locked movements: no more eternal chasing down... Sometimes, it even leads to unexpected battles, with the ennemy appearing in a province where I'm going in locked mode before the ennemy appears on screen. It is sometimes unforgiving and I like it.

Looting: standing army roughly pays for itself now when in ennemy territory. That's a major change and a powerful incentive in being agressive rather than hiding behind forts. It makes wars much more dynamic.

The new warfare system is so much better... Thanks Paradox!
 
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TheeLord

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Not many mentions of the building system, I'm really enjoying it also!
 

AppoX

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......
I'm on par on all techs and just started the plutocratic idea group + used some military points on provinces development. Republics can generate quite a lot of monarch points if you handle the republican tradition correctly.

In order to counter rebels I usually:
1 - increase autonomy in the newly acquired provinces and on old provinces with different religion
2 - decrease war exhaustion

3 - hire a theologian (remember that now you can reroll advisors)
I only had 2 rebellions since the start of the game.
Things in bold I didn't do....
Damn it seems it may be my fault, I seem to be the 'stubborn' type which clings to his ideals and methods pre-patch. I see decreasing autonomy as conceding defeat to the vile rebels (which is wrong imo) and I try to not use my monarch poins for decreasing war exhaustion, usually I fight couple rebellions just to waiting for it to go down. I guess I should make some sacrifices, I even decreased autonomy in a few 'rebellious' provinces.

Well thanks for reminding me about increasing autonomy, I just assumed (wrongly) that it was the 'wrong' or 'sub-par' way to play (because you are essentially sacrificing power to not fight rebels). Now I feel like an idiot.

One thing with regards to forts and fast rebel occupations I would like to point out;
Provinces within the Zone of Control of a fort will NOT suffer any ill effects from being occupied by rebels.

We're working on improving the information you get on this in-game.
Oh amazing as always :) I thought the rebels having negative effects on almost-insta occupying of fortless provinces was an oversight. But it seems to be good. It makes logical sense if there is no fort nearby and I didn't know that it had no effect if there was a zone of control of a fort there. This information should be displayed somewhere.... its a great incentive to build forts in rebellious provinces.
 

kitemasaki

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One thing with regards to forts and fast rebel occupations I would like to point out;
Provinces within the Zone of Control of a fort will NOT suffer any ill effects from being occupied by rebels.

We're working on improving the information you get on this in-game.

Just amazing. I love the new fort system. Just another layer of strategy that pays off if you invest in it and use your mind :)
 
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Wrain

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Genoa - year 1623.
Started slow, conquered a few provinces around me using the free cbs from the missions and trying to manage my
aggressive expansion. By 1480 I had only claimed around 10 provinces. Didn't manage to crush Castile earlier
since they were in a huge power block: Castile + Aragon + Naples + Portugal + Burgundy.
Thanks to PLC I was able to fight the Ottomans and grow in power.
Had a couple of dangerous coalition wars but menage to survive without losing anything.

Fun game so far, expansion kinda limited by the points you generate by I don't mind speed 5 at all.
Republic can still generate a ton of points and even after integrating a huge vassal (1500 diplo)
I'm on par on diplo and military tech with 4 ideas filled. I'm only behind in admin.
 

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BFTeixeira

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There's one issue about the forts, imo. I was at war with Morocco, and conquered their fortress in Marrakech, and sent my army south. When there i lost control of that fortress, and my army couldn't go further south because i lost control of a fortress which was north of my army's position. That doesn't make sense to me.
 

Outrider

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There's one issue about the forts, imo. I was at war with Morocco, and conquered their fortress in Marrakech, and sent my army south. When there i lost control of that fortress, and my army couldn't go further south because i lost control of a fortress which was north of my army's position. That doesn't make sense to me.

Sounds like the capital-fort issue to me. I believe the bug was corrected in the hotfix. Are you running it?
- Forts can no longer take control of other provinces with forts (capital, mothballed or otherwise)
 

Had a dad

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I gotta say while I resisted on starting a CS game cause of 1.11.4 ironman game I had going, once I brought it up trying to help someone with a technical question, well... I haven't gone back to 1.11.4

I agree with the OP, and find it just as fun if not more with the limitations of not being able to spam buildings to every province.