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Vanguard44

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Yes, I have attempted an improvement pack before. It collapsed ): The files are on my dropbox for anyone to play but it is for an older version.

But I'd like to try again, with some newfound inspiration and historical knowledge. What I want to do is make playing Japan a more fun experience.

What will this try to do?

Events and event chains that matter. Random events that -1/+1 dissent are cool but I want mine to have more impact.

A China war that works with a realistic Japanese order of battle.

A realistic Japanese order of battle.

War goals.

Negotiated peace with China events.

A Japanese victory event.

There'll be additional events for USA (maybe it could even be later upgraded to Pacific War IP, but I'd need someone with same vision as me to improve USA), GB and China.

Do I need help? Yes, and no. I will take any suggestion and consider it. I would like someone who is competent with modding AI files to help me improve the US AI and make it more aggressive navally and to produce/do certain things.

I want victory as Japan to be hard, but possible. And I want it to feel a lot of historical flavour from that time. That will come in with events and so on.

A note on language. I will try to use English language with Japanese transliteration where possible. It's just much easier for most people, and done properly, doesn't reduce the immersion (imo.)
 
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Pasha

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Have a look at the All In One Mod forum. He's currently working on a Japan Improvement version for the next patch.
 

Limith

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We revised Japan OOB to be historically accurate for the upcoming patch. OOB for China has also been revised. Events and/or AI improvements would be the most helpful. Japan AI needs a significant rewrite.
 

Vanguard44

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We revised Japan OOB to be historically accurate for the upcoming patch. OOB for China has also been revised. Events and/or AI improvements would be the most helpful. Japan AI needs a significant rewrite.
I will try to play it and see what I think, but I don't like most mods approach to Japan-China, so we'll see. If I like how it works I will help with events if it is needed. But I don't necessarily want to put my time into something I don't want to play.

More specifically I find that most mods simply leave China with a swarm of militia that Japan has to mass produce infantry divisions to keep in check. I'm more interested in a historical approach, especially to the start of the war.
 

jamiroquai000

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At the follow days I will realise the "Japan" version of ALL IN ONE Mod, at this moment I'm glad to say that only for Japan, I count over 250 new events and with alternate history for AST & NZL, new skins,shields, graphics,pics,ministers,etc...
 

ChrisFox

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Good luck from me as well! I don't see many Japan mods out! It will be nice to have at least one.
 

Vanguard44

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Thanks for kind comments. Just to explain some ideas I have for the mod.

The war in the pacific will play out for the Japanese player (at this time it can only be played as Japan) via strategic initiatives. Every so often the player will be presented with a choice (sometimes it is not a choice) of what direction they want to go in. For example they can choose the midway operation or a strike towards guadalcanal. failure to choose either results in a penalty. failure to carry out the selected operation results in a penalty. when enough successes are achieved, plus some other factors, an event will fire which contributes towards the overall victory event.

so for example if the player has carried out operation MO, secured the solomons and noumea and occupied fiji and has warships in truk, rabaul, port moresby, noumea (just for example) they will receive an event "australian lines of communications cut" which is one of the end-game victory conditions. here's an example of what it will look like. this one is operation MO which is an event in which one does not have a choice, but for later events there will be a choice (probably at extremities - occupy ceylon or madagascar, for example.)

ex1.jpg

ex2.jpg

ex3.jpg

Here's a graphic I made today.

japans_war_east.PNG


(the japanese script actually says "Greater Pacific War" or something similar.)
 
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Vanguard44

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Thanks!

Unfortunately the mod starts in 1939 so the 1936 incident is already passed.

Some more details on the path of my mod. one of the advantages of making a mod designed to be played only as a single nation is that you can change some fundamental game mechanics. The purpose of this mod is to put the player in the Japanese strategic position and mindset. It's not to create a mod that varies hardness (the game won't be significantly harder than DHF vanilla) or to add "flavour events" but to restructure the way the game is played to be unique to the Japanese position. One example of this is a reduction in TC/supply dist the further the empire expands.

So what I worked on today:

Japan does not use mobilisation to gain manpower (tho it starts mobilised). I have set it to have a certain level of manpower (quite high) which can be added to or reduced from in exchange for some benefits.

So far it's possible to take manpower away to increase industry, take manpower away to add convoys, and add manpower to take away research efficiency. there's also an option to push women into the workforce. all of these are reversible and persistent, so the player can fiddle with it. if he finds himself really short on convoys he can build up his merchant marine, if he needs mp desperately he can draft men out of the factories (japan starts with relatively low IC compared to other games, so you will probably be forced to have a lot of mp into industry.)

of course it is balanced so that the player can actually just ignore this part of the game if they feel it's not to their taste.

for example:

japan_industry.PNG


and a final thing I worked on yesterday:

PHA.PNG


(im writing this mainly so I get my ideas down somewhere concrete, but hopefully it attracts attention.)
 

chatnoir17

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Can we expect some kind of conflicts between army and navy officers? The political sliders can't represent these factions so well.
 

Vanguard44

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Can we expect some kind of conflicts between army and navy officers? The political sliders can't represent these factions so well.
Mmm, yes. How to implement this, I'm not yet sure.

IRL, the IJA pushed the IJN to war, but after six months of success it was the Navy who wanted to continue the offensive and the Army wanted to consolidate. One option I had thought of was to allow the player to decide who was winning by simple selection (army or navy) which would result in org/morale bonus/malus to the winner/loser. I'm moving away from that option because like I said, I want the player to feel they are really in Japan's shoes, rather than having total control of the country.

One option I've mentally explored is to have the Army/Navy win/lose something depending on what the player does and in terms of what they build and where they take. Taking Midway for example is a political victory for the Navy and Delhi a political victory for the Army. The hard part is balancing the effect. In real life the political strength of either side influenced their ability to make key strategic decisions, but that is a bit too complex for my modding ability and maybe the game engine. One option would be build costs/time. I'm open for suggestions here.
 

chatnoir17

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Mmm, yes. How to implement this, I'm not yet sure.

IRL, the IJA pushed the IJN to war, but after six months of success it was the Navy who wanted to continue the offensive and the Army wanted to consolidate. One option I had thought of was to allow the player to decide who was winning by simple selection (army or navy) which would result in org/morale bonus/malus to the winner/loser. I'm moving away from that option because like I said, I want the player to feel they are really in Japan's shoes, rather than having total control of the country.

One option I've mentally explored is to have the Army/Navy win/lose something depending on what the player does and in terms of what they build and where they take. Taking Midway for example is a political victory for the Navy and Delhi a political victory for the Army. The hard part is balancing the effect. In real life the political strength of either side influenced their ability to make key strategic decisions, but that is a bit too complex for my modding ability and maybe the game engine. One option would be build costs/time. I'm open for suggestions here.

I am also not sure how such a mechanic could be added, and I understand it would be bit too micromanagement. On the other hand, lacking the general grand design of the strategy was one of the serious weak points of Japan in comparison to USA, and the conflict by the army and navy was the most important factor of this weakness.
As you said, putting "war goals in short-middle term" or the focus of unit buildings would be a good start.
 

Vanguard44

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I am also not sure how such a mechanic could be added, and I understand it would be bit too micromanagement. On the other hand, lacking the general grand design of the strategy was one of the serious weak points of Japan in comparison to USA, and the conflict by the army and navy was the most important factor of this weakness.
As you said, putting "war goals in short-middle term" or the focus of unit buildings would be a good start.
THat's right, and it's hard to find some modifier that can represent the overall clash between Japanese branches compared to the US' relative unity (tho the US did have Macarthur vs Nimitz.)

Well, this is what I have temporarily.

event = {
id = 500000
random = no
country = JAP

name = "Navy strengthens its political position"
desc = "As a result of recent victories in the war at sea, the Navy has strengthened its political position in the cabinet and bureaucracy. The Army is greatly upset and there is general discord in co-operation between the two branches."
style = 2
picture = "news_paper"

# triggered by Naval successes
#capture of islands
#success at port moresby and guadalcanal
#success at midway
#failure at wuhan operation
#failure at changsha operation
#failure at go-go
#failure at ichi-go

action = {
name = "Japan's navy is invincible"
command = { type = build_cost which = naval where = relative value = -10 }
command = { type = build_time which = naval where = relative value = -10 }
command = { type = build_cost which = air where = relative value = -5 }
command = { type = build_time which = air where = relative value = -5 }
command = { type = build_cost which = marine where = relative value = -10 }
command = { type = build_time which = marine where = relative value = -10 }
command = { type = build_cost which = infantry where = relative value = 10 }
command = { type = build_time which = infantry where = relative value = 10 }
command = { type = tc_mod value = -7.5 }

}
}
 
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chatnoir17

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I am not good at modding of HoI series, but couldn't we use variables, f.e. JAP_power_balance or so.
 

Limith

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Interesting things you have about manpower and labor pool. It is true that historically Japan did not really 'mobilize' in the same sense as other countries. They were able to muster over 3 million troops on the home islands in their final mobilization to defend the home islands, and did not send as many troops as they could to the China theater as they can in game under the same mobilization system (supposedly according to sources I read due to shortages of weapons to send any additional troops outside of Japan).

It's also good to avoid having too many small flavor events that occur regardless of events in game. Ex. don't have something occur if the conditions for it doesn't account. I think having the player decide directly on who has political influence (IJA/IJN) is a bad idea as well.

Hoping for the best of this mod. If it turns out well, who knows, maybe it'll be included in 1.05. I intend to rework Sino-SovietSino-Japanese War for 1.05. I don't know enough about Japan from a Japanese perspective (given I can only read Chinese and English).

Side note: Interested to see that I can understand all of the Japanese as it is kanji. heh


Yes, modding is for your own personal enjoyment. I do it for that reason as well (I've stopped modding though, mostly only working on core). For the new OOB in 1.04, Matt and I spent a considerable amount of time on researching Chinese and Japanese OOB (had to look on Japanese websites and try to understand it via google translate) and adapting it to the way DH represents units (there are some mods that don't understand the way DH models units, I don't always either which was why it was advantageous for me to have the ability to ask the team about what a 'Infantry' division represents. Also each country's divisions can vary, even if the names for them are the same type of division, many of the choices were based on brigade or regiment composition instead of the division name). China does have a huge amount of militia, yes, but the new OOB is historic in numbers. China actually suffers from an IC problem in 1.04 due to most of their IC being spent on supplies. In addition, a good portion of the troops are 'locked' to represent the fact that those militia are the personal troops of local warlords and not under central authority. They get 'unlocked' after a period of time, so Japan has the ability to overrun China and destroy the large stacks at the beginning of the war (AI fails at this). Japan also gains control over Shanghai and can rush the Chinese capital (AI fails at this).

Regarding the mass production of militia afterwards, I do have ideas about that (none of this is implemented for 1.04). I wanted to introduce a risk effect to it, which would involve reworking the Chinese Civil War. Specifically, the more CHI mobilizes and drafts militia historically (forced conscription, no supplies, forced marches), the more 'post war dissent' they would get, so if CHI does win the war against Japan due to heavy mobilization, it results in a very weak position to fight the communists afterward (mobilization, the way it was carried out, was very unpopular, but due to war unity reasons, all parties agreed to support the KMT during the war). If allies provide weapons and training (ex. in India), then CHI gets some troops without post war dissent risk (but this is a cost for allies who have to donate supplies and IC, and this would take longer than emergency conscription, as historically the allies never even finished training the final batch of units in India on time before Japan surrendered). The ultimate idea was to balance it so that CHI would not be able to produce enough units by IC alone if facing against a good JAP player and have to use the emergency conscription system (implemented via event, as they did historically) to stay alive until the allies bail them out (via lend-lease). There would be no event that decreases militia production time. In fact, I'm even thinking of an event to increase production time to simulate lack of heavy industry in china to produce weapons. Japan should not be forced to mass produce Infantry because historically they did not send anywhere near half of their 'mobilization' potential to China. Instead, Japan should figure out how to strategically capture important regions in China to reach a negotiated peace (discouraging occupying territory via a partisan system where Japan can lose supplies (which is then gifted to CHI or CHC, and can be used to conscript troops via emergency conscription system) or face a mass uprising if it occupies too much territory and does not assign sufficient troops to pacification. Historically only ~10,000 troops were assigned to counter-insurgency vs an insurgency numbering 450,000 communist militia).

A peace system would also be implemented (ex. if too much conscription or all major cities occupied, China may capitulate) to prevent the ahistorical complete annexation of China that occurs in games (Japan simply wouldn't be able to police the area), along with the partisan system remaining after the war so that a puppet Chinese government would need to keep their troops maintaining order in China rather than conquering the USA for Japan. The peace system can even be tied to the control of IJA/IJN (ex. one of the earlier peace proposal process failed due to the IJA believing they could win in 3 months).

Anyway, all of this was just ideas, I don't even know if I would have the time to implement them, or refine them. Just giving you food for thought.

(Edit: Also many of these systems are aimed at players, there would need to be tweaks for AI if it can't handle certain aspects, like being less rough on post-war dissent for AI CHI if Japan is a human and CHC is human as well, or being less rough on AI Japan if CHI is human in partisan system).

(Edit 2: Fixed error, meant sino-japanese)
 
Last edited:

Vanguard44

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Interesting things you have about manpower and labor pool. It is true that historically Japan did not really 'mobilize' in the same sense as other countries. They were able to muster over 3 million troops on the home islands in their final mobilization to defend the home islands, and did not send as many troops as they could to the China theater as they can in game under the same mobilization system (supposedly according to sources I read due to shortages of weapons to send any additional troops outside of Japan).

It's also good to avoid having too many small flavor events that occur regardless of events in game. Ex. don't have something occur if the conditions for it doesn't account. I think having the player decide directly on who has political influence (IJA/IJN) is a bad idea as well.

Hoping for the best of this mod. If it turns out well, who knows, maybe it'll be included in 1.05. I intend to rework Sino-Soviet War for 1.05. I don't know enough about Japan from a Japanese perspective (given I can only read Chinese and English).

Side note: Interested to see that I can understand all of the Japanese as it is kanji. heh


Yes, modding is for your own personal enjoyment. I do it for that reason as well (I've stopped modding though, mostly only working on core). For the new OOB in 1.04, Matt and I spent a considerable amount of time on researching Chinese and Japanese OOB (had to look on Japanese websites and try to understand it via google translate) and adapting it to the way DH represents units (there are some mods that don't understand the way DH models units, I don't always either which was why it was advantageous for me to have the ability to ask the team about what a 'Infantry' division represents. Also each country's divisions can vary, even if the names for them are the same type of division, many of the choices were based on brigade or regiment composition instead of the division name). China does have a huge amount of militia, yes, but the new OOB is historic in numbers. China actually suffers from an IC problem in 1.04 due to most of their IC being spent on supplies. In addition, a good portion of the troops are 'locked' to represent the fact that those militia are the personal troops of local warlords and not under central authority. They get 'unlocked' after a period of time, so Japan has the ability to overrun China and destroy the large stacks at the beginning of the war (AI fails at this). Japan also gains control over Shanghai and can rush the Chinese capital (AI fails at this).

Regarding the mass production of militia afterwards, I do have ideas about that (none of this is implemented for 1.04). I wanted to introduce a risk effect to it, which would involve reworking the Chinese Civil War. Specifically, the more CHI mobilizes and drafts militia historically (forced conscription, no supplies, forced marches), the more 'post war dissent' they would get, so if CHI does win the war against Japan due to heavy mobilization, it results in a very weak position to fight the communists afterward (mobilization, the way it was carried out, was very unpopular, but due to war unity reasons, all parties agreed to support the KMT during the war). If allies provide weapons and training (ex. in India), then CHI gets some troops without post war dissent risk (but this is a cost for allies who have to donate supplies and IC, and this would take longer than emergency conscription, as historically the allies never even finished training the final batch of units in India on time before Japan surrendered). The ultimate idea was to balance it so that CHI would not be able to produce enough units by IC alone if facing against a good JAP player and have to use the emergency conscription system (implemented via event, as they did historically) to stay alive until the allies bail them out (via lend-lease). There would be no event that decreases militia production time. In fact, I'm even thinking of an event to increase production time to simulate lack of heavy industry in china to produce weapons. Japan should not be forced to mass produce Infantry because historically they did not send anywhere near half of their 'mobilization' potential to China. Instead, Japan should figure out how to strategically capture important regions in China to reach a negotiated peace (discouraging occupying territory via a partisan system where Japan can lose supplies (which is then gifted to CHI or CHC, and can be used to conscript troops via emergency conscription system) or face a mass uprising if it occupies too much territory and does not assign sufficient troops to pacification. Historically only ~10,000 troops were assigned to counter-insurgency vs an insurgency numbering 450,000 communist militia).

A peace system would also be implemented (ex. if too much conscription or all major cities occupied, China may capitulate) to prevent the ahistorical complete annexation of China that occurs in games (Japan simply wouldn't be able to police the area), along with the partisan system remaining after the war so that a puppet Chinese government would need to keep their troops maintaining order in China rather than conquering the USA for Japan. The peace system can even be tied to the control of IJA/IJN (ex. one of the earlier peace proposal process failed due to the IJA believing they could win in 3 months).

Anyway, all of this was just ideas, I don't even know if I would have the time to implement them, or refine them. Just giving you food for thought.

(Edit: Also many of these systems are aimed at players, there would need to be tweaks for AI if it can't handle certain aspects, like being less rough on post-war dissent for AI CHI if Japan is a human and CHC is human as well, or being less rough on AI Japan if CHI is human in partisan system).
There was a lot to take in here!

My idea was to make something that really puts the player in the shoes of Japanese strategic decision makers. So I didn't want it to be like "hey, mobilise or not?" I accept that having taken some stuff out of the game (the player won't be able to build IC and then loads of armoured divisions to invade the US, for example) I have to put something back in to keep people entertained. And like you say to me that has got to be far more than flavour events that trigger at certain dates.

The Japanese I must admit is taken from Japanese wikipedia, so it isn't a google translate - but I hardly wrote it myself.

I don't have the time in the day to create a fully realistic order of battle, but I think mine is as real as it possibly could be given my time circumstances. And one thing I noted is that Japan simply didn't have enough divisions and so I've had problems theoretically. I really want to avoid this game where everyone has pumped out divs. I like the sound of what you're doing in 1.04, but I don't have the time or ability to get an accurate China OOB. My knowledge base is mainly around Japan and the Japanese perspective, and I don't know very much about China (outside of basic history and what I read in "The Wars for Asia 1911–1949"). So far I've converted China's Army mainly to garrisons. The player can choose to attack if he likes, but he's going to have to pay for it.

Your ideas all sound interesting, but I'm afraid I am not that good of a modder to implement many of them. So far I'm even having trouble getting revolt risk increases in Japanese occupied China. I have a lot of work to do!

If you're interested in the mod, please watch this space. I tend to post updates as I go on what I'm doing (both for feedback and publicity, and also for my own info-storage.)