Imperial Japan as a beginner

[ladner]

Which is why I prefer using tanks: even in small number they just roll all defences over - debuff or no.
(of course, mine are busy with border skirmish for a couple months anyway, so I do not send them in with full debuff)
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I mostly see naval invasions as a way to help AI get some divisions encircled.

But, I suppose, using a lot of infantry to spread Chinese around with naval invasions is a more "proper" way of doing it. Personally, I just hate the idea of microing invasion orders to minimize preparation time, and it takes way too long without.

Couldn't really view your screenshots on the iPhone, while on vacation, that is an impressive advance for 1937.

I sort of followed Ffire's advice rushing the Marco Polo Bridge incident was not worth it, in my opinion. As soon as you create the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere the various Chinese warlord factions unite. So it is not possible to pick off Shanxi. Shanxi is a horrid place to fight the terrain and infrastructure result in massive attrition and poor combat odds. I did repeated escalate the war in China, this eventually removes the mallus for Marco Polo Bridge incident and sets up the Ichi-Go event.

I don't think the war in China is worth it, frankly. Perhaps Gangh Xi Clique (spelling) in the south is worth conquering for the resources the rest is hardly easy and seems to be of little economic value. I realize puppeting China sets you up for world conquest. I have not gotten far enough for Pacific war with the US in game. I'm finding it very difficult to build a combined fleet that is the same as the real fleet, i.e. Shokaku and Zuikaku complete with 1940 carrier aircraft. If you go historical in terms of Yamamoto class you are stuck with aviation malus. What I disagree with is that supremacy of the battle fleet and first air fleet should not be mutually exclusive in game, since historically they weren't.

The AI would benefit greatly from this since it seems to be most heavily influenced by national focus selection. Of course watching AI Germany go to pieces is entertaining, in particular declaring war on Luxembourg before Poland falls.

I don't know how AI China is able to field the forces that it does, I don't know if there is massive lend lease going on behind the scenes. The war is wearing out my industry. SInce I have avoided trading my aircraft production is suffering, really need the Dutch East Indies for the oil and rubber. Going concentrated industry and I can't keep up with demand for infantry equipment.

 

[ladner]

I'm certainly not as experienced as the folks with 1000's of hours of game time. My time thus far has been split between Germany and Japan. Germany is so much easier than Japan it's not even close.

For the Allies the outbreak of hostilities in the Pacific Theatre led to a series of debacles. For the US the Pearl Harbor surprise attack, a huge intelligence failure, and then the Philippines campaign. For Great Britain Malaya, loss of the HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse, and the fall of Singapore, which Winston Churchill called one of the greatest disasters in the history of British arms. Then there was the ill fated ABDA command (America British Dutch Australia) as the Dutch East Indies were conquered.

In my current game, I don't know if AI Germany is going to be able to capitulate France, since I have gone all in on war with China I don't think I will be in a position to run a successful campaign in early 1942 as was historically done. I'll have to dig through some books, but I think my aircraft production is significantly lagging, which is going to be a big issue. Furthermore I cannot create a fleet that is the size of the historical combined fleet, six fleet carriers with a Shokaku class of two (1940 CV?).

If the Collie update is Pacific focused I hope there are some serious adjustments made regarding Japan. The German focus tree is string of really good bonuses, at least the ones that most take. The Herman Goering Werke and KDF Werke are far superior to any national focus in the entire Japan tree, I'm not arguing for these to be removed, and from what I am seeing AI Germany probably needs all the help/bonus it can get. I haven't seen the effect of the Cruiser focus yet, so I may have a different take once war in the Pacific starts.

 

[ladner]

HugsAndSnuggles - I think there is a definite benefit to building a couple 'armored' formations. I had dispersed my armor into the recon companies, this did help. But I noticed that one 'real' armored division is basically able to steam roll the Chinese infantry divisions. The problem I had was a lack of forces to exploit the gap I had made.

 

[HugsAndSnuggles]

Couldn't really view your screenshots on the iPhone, while on vacation, that is an impressive advance for 1937.

I suppose. Considering that, lately, I tend to be done with it by late spring '38, that kind of advance is necessary.

Makes campaign somewhat justifiable, too. Would still, probably, take me 'till late summer with Expert AI - did that a while ago, and division spam was more annoying than challenging.

I sort of followed Ffire's advice rushing the Marco Polo Bridge incident was not worth it, in my opinion.

If you go somewhat historical, by July '37 you can have Marco Polo, all the "free factory" focuses, and another one of your choice (I usually start with Naval Estimates after a couple disastrous Pacific campaigns). Building up industry via focuses ASAP is essential, IMO - no matter the country (or the game).

As soon as you create the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere the various Chinese warlord factions unite. So it is not possible to pick off Shanxi.

It varies from patch to patch. Currently, they always seem to join. For a couple patches before, there was a chance of catching Shanxi out of faction (although, they sometimes joined up mid-fight); with Expert AI, last i tried, Sanxi seemed pretty reluctant to join (at least by July '37, when I start the war), so was quite possible to take it out alone. In theory, that makes whole conquest noticeably easier: you only need to advance in one straight line along the river, and you got half a hundred divisions in a pocket - even with division spam of Expert AI China is pretty much dead after that.

I don't think the war in China is worth it, frankly.

It's not. Of course, it allows you to grab neutrals all the way up to Oman (if you care to bother - only the oil in Iran is worth it somewhat), and opens up an "easy" conquest of Rhaj (should it come to that - better use that focus to take out USA before they join Allies) along with other Allied colonies. Tanking on USSR is more beneficial, but might be impossible with Japanese industry (never tried that, myself).

HugsAndSnuggles - I think there is a definite benefit to building a couple 'armored' formations. I had dispersed my armor into the recon companies, this did help. But I noticed that one 'real' armored division is basically able to steam roll the Chinese infantry divisions. The problem I had was a lack of forces to exploit the gap I had made.

In part, it's a playstyle preference: there is a certain benefit to having huge infantry army (having reserves, or ability to create a number of beachheads - for example). I make do with 34 (expanded to 48 as industry catches up) of 20w divisions for frontline (Hohei Shidan reduced to 20w with support arty, usually) - sometimes I struggle, but it tends to be enough. I suppose, bruteforcing unified China defence line is a somewhat dumber approach, but I still find it satisfying.

 

[ladner]

I started experimenting with going down the Manchuria focus and had released Korea as a puppet. This seemed to give a fairly decent economic boost. Of course releasing Korea fouled up the "Challenge the Soviets" event chain.

 

[Earl Grey Tea]

As the subject implies what are recommended strategies to play as Imperial Japan? I have become burned out from playing German Reich and wanted to try something different. Thus far I really like how the Imperial Japanese decision tree makes the faction “fit”. The cruiser decisions and the long lance torpedoes are nice touches. Of course I have not progressed far enough to know if it makes a meaningful difference or is just flavor. From glancing at r/HOI4 it seems the coastal defense design team is the way to go. My only disagreement is that the battle fleet and first air fleet decision are mutually exclusive, in reality they were not.

Deal with the US as quickly as possible. Invade the Netherlands, to get Suriname. Justify on Mexico (usa will be called in, Also tension won't be high enough for them to join Allies). Naval invade the US from Suriname. They're insanely easy to defeat early game. Also if you do this in Ironman, you'll get a cool little achievement.

then proceed with invading China or whatever you wanna do.

 

[Doctrine]

For invading China, I usually just start the war as early as I am comfortable with (usually early 1937 or even 1936) and then just let my troops sit on the tiny border between me and China. Don't call your puppets into the war yet so you don't have to defend more land. If you're lucky, the enemy will just spam suicide attacks on your (supposedly) well entrenched and supplied divisions and you'll eventually get experienced divisions and army exp. Use the army exp to modify your units ofc. Keep this up until you remove the Marco polo bridge modifier, then naval invade the areas around Qingdao and Shanghai. Take a supply point and keep those points well defended and let them sit there, if there are no enemies you can advance a bit, then call your puppets into the war. The Chinese army will be quite split at this point and your main army in the Beijing border should be able to advance through all the non-mountain areas of China relatively easily.

It's also possible to cheat against China by encircling (and not capturing) Nanjing and the entire Chinese army will be starved of supplies.

 

[Ffire]

Tanking on USSR is more beneficial, but might be impossible with Japanese industry (never tried that, myself).

You can still go at war with USSR through decisions, even after taking focus against China.
You just need to save some PP.
The problem when fighting the USSR is that you need to push very far away in bad terrain, it's a logistical nightmare. All in all, against AI, everything's possible

 

[squid_hills]

Have you considered skipping Marco Polo and just justifying on China with PP? Japan is fascist, so you have that option right from the start. You can only justify on one country at a time, so going after China means you can't simultaneously hit Shanxi or Yunnan, but once you annex Nationalist China, the warlords should be easy for you. The benefit here is you avoid the Marco Polo malus, which hurts like the dickens, and bites you in the butt if you buy it off... Since every time you pay down the penalties, the USA gets more war support, which removes the internal roadblocks to that country gearing up for war. By removing the Marco Polo malus, you make it easier and easier for the US to go to war with you. Nobody wants that. A direct war declaration skips those shennannigans.

Alternatively, ignore China, immediately join the Axis and declare on the Dutch East Indies. It generates lower WT than declaring on the Netherlands. Move troops to Germany, prep a naval invasion into the Netherlands, move a fleet up there (get docking rights in Italy and Nationalist Spain) then invade when it's ready. Annex the territories in South America, as Curacao (sp?) gets you a decent amount of oil, puppet the DEI (low WT and you can annex them through PP) and puppet the Netherlands, again for low WT. You should have WT around 10 afterwards, maybe a bit lower, and you'll have a solid flow of oil, plus a puppet who can provide you with more oil, and all the rubber and aluminum you will ever need, plus almost China-levels of manpower. Oh, then leave the Axis. You don't want any part of the aggro Germany is going to start.

Now war with China isn't affected by a resource crunch, because you've got everything but flaming boatloads of steel coming out of your ears (seriously, the amount of oil, rubber, and aluminum the DEI can produce once you maximize their infrastructure is insane).

Also, as someone mentioned earlier, doing this sets you up for an achievement if you are interested. Just move dudes to your new South American territories, set up naval invasions into the southern USA, move your entire navy and as many planes as you can without overloading your airfields to Curacao, then declare on the Phillipines. Don't declare on Mexico, as that means you will have to face their 50 ish divisions as well as the USA's 50 ish divisions at the same time with your 48 divisions. That's silly. Just fight the USA, ignore the Phillipines, capitulate the US, annex the US, do whatever with the Phillipines, then declare on Mexico. The hardest part of fighting Mexico is the terrain, frankly. Once that's done, annex Mexico, then annex the Netherlands through PP. That gets you an achievement. It also gets you all of the USA's resources and industry and sets you up nicely for a world conquest run.

Oh, and don't worry about China. Communist China has a NF they do which lets them sabotage Japanese factories/infrastructure in Korea and occupied China and puts the blame on Nationalist China. This gives Japan a war goal against both Nat China and Com China. Essentially, if you wait long enough, China will ask you politely to declare war on them, and will give you the tools to do so. Plus, you completely avoid the Marco Polo malus!

 

[HugsAndSnuggles]

Have you considered skipping Marco Polo and just justifying on China with PP?

Won't work without someone bumping the world tension first (to like 75, IIRC).

Alternatively, ignore China, immediately join the Axis and declare on the Dutch East Indies.

If going for cheese, France would be a better target, I think.

 

[squid_hills]

Won't work without someone bumping the world tension first (to like 75, IIRC).

Wow. I haven't seen that before; not even in non-historical where all kinds of crazy stuff can happen. I mean, even with Italy claiming on Yugoslavia and Germany annexing people via it's focus tree, Japan justifying directly on China after a failed Marco Polo (one where China surrenders territory instead of fighting) should put WT around 45~ish. And that's in 1937. I honestly can't envision a set of circumstances that would cause WT to hit 75% on a Justification that started in 1936 (because a manual justification on China is something you would start in 1936, considering it's like 240+ days to complete). If you start justifying in 1936 and your war starts in 1937, WT should be around 20~ish.

Unless you're in multiplayer and some goober is trying to reform Byzantium. That'll spike WT a bit...

If going for cheese, France would be a better target, I think.

Not if you want to avoid fighting the UK at the same time. Justifying on France in 1936 is around 20-22 WT, because they don't have a puppet to justify on. You have to go directly at France. Italy's annexation of Ethiopia puts around 4 points on the board, Spanish Civil War puts around 1 or 2 when it starts (more when it ends) and Rhineland is a flat 5. That's around 30 WT by June of 1936 if you justify on France, with 20+ caused by the player. Guess who just guaranteed France's independence? Yup; the UK is now involved. And once the war starts, UK can immediately invite France into the Allies, ignoring the NF tree path, meaning you are now fighting the whole of the Allies + France. Even if you capitulate France rapidly (not easy with both the Royal Navy and the French Navy in the English Channel) you will still have to deal with Free France, because capitulating France doesn't do anything to their colonial territories if they are in a faction. Plus, even if you somehow get lucky enough to avoid the 25% WT threshold (playing non-historical and Germany does a very late Rhineland and SCW starts in late 1936) you'll have to give away (liberate) most of France's territory to keep the WT low enough to avoid letting the USA do an early game Hulk-out. It's not worth it, compared to how easy a war with the Netherlands over DEI is.

Germany can do an early war against France, because a German player can hold off doing Rhineland which will keep WT just below the 25% guarantee threshold, but a Japan player is at the mercy of the AI, and the German AI loves doing Rhineland.

 

[Ffire]

HugsAndSnuggles - I think there is a definite benefit to building a couple 'armored' formations. I had dispersed my armor into the recon companies, this did help. But I noticed that one 'real' armored division is basically able to steam roll the Chinese infantry divisions. The problem I had was a lack of forces to exploit the gap I had made.

You don't have the IC for that. China is very limited logistically speaking. That and the terrain means a lot of attrition, so you'll not only need to form those expensive division, but constantly send new tanks to compensate losses.

Personnally I use only armored recon companies during the 2-3 first months of the war, then I switch those divisions back to cav reco.

Marco Polo and just justifying on China with PP

In SP, I try to avoid justifiying on a country, when I have focus for. Just for flavor and because that's already easy enough to beat the AI