Imperial Federation PP Costs

[Anaraxes]

The wiki's description of the process for forming this nation warns:

the player should save up around 600-700 political power in order to convince the dominions... The player will have two months (60 days) to carry out all five decisions, which cost 50 Political Power to take except for the Discuss Imperial Federation decision which costs 100 Political Power and must be taken last.

4 x 50 + 100 = 300 PP. What are the other 300-400 for?

(I actually just tried running through that focus to see what the decisions were, since I couldn't find a good list of those. Completed the tree down to the focus, and got no new related decisions at all. So the direct method of discovery didn't work out.)

 

[fallgelb22061940]

You need that spare pp to make sure they accept, like improving relations, spending effort on introductory event for every decision

 

[--Yigito123--]

To elaborate, there are events for each discussion where you can spend PP to ensure a higher chance of the dominions accepting. The highest PP costing option is 50 PP.
The conference also gives a -100 opinion malus to all dominions, and you should ideally improve relations to them back up to max for the highest chance of accepting.

5 x 50 = 250 (Diplomatic Effort Events)
4 x 50 + 100 = 300 (Decision Costs)
100-150? (Cost of improving relations with all dominions to the max)

That adds up to 550-600 PP range, as I am not sure precisely how much PP you lose with improve relations to get them all back up to +100 opinion.

 

[fallgelb22061940]

Additional pp recommended is to deal with strikes, draft dodging and mutinies if they occur

 

[Secret Master]

Additional pp recommended is to deal with strikes, draft dodging and mutinies if they occur

 

[MechaThumper]

So here's a breakdown of the Imperial conference:

1 - The Raj can be a part of the Imperial Federation if you have taken the Indian Autonomy Focus
2 - All participants gain a -100 relations modifier. This mostly just removes the bonuses to relations from being a puppet and being in the same faction.
3 - Guarantees and improved relations are recommended to be taken prior to completing the focus and taking the decision as higher relations increases acceptance chances
4 - When a participant accepts a resolution there is a +10 boost to relations for the future resolutions.

When you choose a resolution to be discussed you are presented with 3 options for how much additional PP to use to get the participants to accept: "Hope they Agree" 0 PP option, "Diplomatic Pressure" 25 PP option and a "Extensive Diplomatic Pressure" 50 PP option.

Now for the different resolutions:
Imperial Defense - costs 50 PP - Participants get 10% Factory & Dockyard output if they accept, England gets 3/6/9/12/15% depending on how many accept. Both last 1 year.
Imperial Trade - costs 50 PP - Participants get Free Trade if they accept, England gets +50 trade relations with each that accept (higher likelihood of getting resources when other nations are trying to buy more than what is being produced)
Imperial Economy - costs 50 PP - Participants get 10% Civ/Mil/Dockyard build speed if they accept, England gets 3/6/9/12/15% depending on how many accept. Both last 1 year.
Discuss Appeasement - costs 50 PP - Participants get 10% War Support if they accept, England gets 3/6/9/12/15% depending on how many accept
Imperial Federation - costs 100 PP - do this last if you don't have enough relations, if one participant (except the Raj) disagrees nothing happens, see after the acceptance %s for additional info.

The participants will lose 25 PP for every resolution they accept.

The chance of acceptance is this:

This applies to all resolutions, including the Imperial Federation. There is an additional bonus with Imperial Federation if there are high relations. They will accept 100% if relations are >99 if "Hope" is taken, >89 if "Diplo Press" is taken, and >79 if "Extensive" pressure is taken. All of the participants, except India, need to accept or else it will fail. If the Raj disagrees then an event pops us where you can continue the Federation with the other dominions and remove them from the Faction and Puppet status, or scrap the Federation.

Overall if you don't have PP to spare as long as you have 100 PP and enough relations to complete Imperial Federation the other resolutions can be partially or wholly ignored.

 

[Anaraxes]

Thanks for the details, especially the chance of acceptance chart. I did some save-scumming to try to get a general feel for the effectiveness of different press/expense options, but it would take a long time to get numbers with any accuracy that way.

The bonuses from the other options are significant (+15% factory/dockyard output for a year kinds of buffs). Those might be worth the PP.

Overall, I wouldn't say that Secret Master's meme is wrong. In my case, I'd already beaten Germany and Italy by 1941 (serially; the war was a little strange*), so figured I'd give it a whirl while waiting for the Allies-Comintern war to start. It does cost a huge about of PP, though; I still don't have all the designers and military staff slots filled (along with wasting some PP on knocking down a couple of autonomy levels). Even with both PP generator politicians, it's costly enough that I doubt I'd bother if I weren't just fooling around. I did run across some references to a faster path if you also keep Edward as king and go down that branch, rather than staying on the left-side democratic path.

The focus time is also a significant opportunity. The development focuses aren't terrible, but they compete with a lot of research bonuses located in the rearmament path that the UK can make use of.



--
* Austria and Hungary formed their alliance, so Germany attacked them rather than Poland, and went on to Yugoslavia. That's when I decided to intervene; eventually beat them back on that front along with the usual Weser-Ems invasion and also France breaking out across the Rhine. Italy never joined the Axis, and was eyeing Yugoslavia after knocking off Greece, so they justified and declared maybe a month or two before Germany capitulated. The Yugoslavs were holding out against Bulgaria and Legionary Romania plus Italy fairly well, but then got overrun because I was selfishly conquering Italy instead of shoring up their fronts. Their exiled government was living in Venice while the red tide swept up the boot. At any rate, not as much pressure as the more usual historical path, though the timing for the outbreak of war was about the same.

 

[Anaraxes]

I've updated the wiki with details from this thread. I could still use a pointer to the source of the effect of the Imperial Trade and Appeasement decisions. (The other two grant National Spirits for factory output and construction speed bonuses. I haven't noticed anything in the interface or code to tell me what the other two do.)

I've assumed that the five possible levels of the Economy and Defense proposals correspond to the number of dominions that agree to the decision. That is, some of the dominions could reject the "minor" decisions without scuttling the entire thing. But that's just a guess based on the fact that there are five levels defined in the code; I think each one bumps up the final level of the decision, so these don't have to be 100% pass to have some effect.

 

[MechaThumper]

I've updated the wiki with details from this thread. I could still use a pointer to the source of the effect of the Imperial Trade and Appeasement decisions. (The other two grant National Spirits for factory output and construction speed bonuses. I haven't noticed anything in the interface or code to tell me what the other two do.)

I've assumed that the five possible levels of the Economy and Defense proposals correspond to the number of dominions that agree to the decision. That is, some of the dominions could reject the "minor" decisions without scuttling the entire thing. But that's just a guess based on the fact that there are five levels defined in the code; I think each one bumps up the final level of the decision, so these don't have to be 100% pass to have some effect.

Correct about the five levels. The bonus gets scaled on how many accept, except for the federation, they all have to accept except for india. If india doesnt accept there is an event that lets you continue with the other four dominions, with india declaring independence and leaving the faction, or to scrap the federation idea completely.

All info was grabbed from the files, but there's screen grabs below. I don't know if the trade one works, it should be doing the same as the hungarian trade deal with Germany but I don't see any change from before to after the acceptances. It would be almost wholly useless anyway as what it should be doing is allowing you to receive a higher share of the trade from them:

 

[Anaraxes]

Perfect; thanks! I've updated the wiki to include the information from those tooltips.