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Joroman said:
Roi, in hindsight my decision was correct. The war with Sweden was short. True, I would have smoked Denmark in NA, but he had the larger fleet, sadly, and would have paid a visit to my isles. This time the battle would have gone different as he no longer has his leader, but the war would have cost me pretty much the same amount as it took me to buy him off.

One final point -- in order for me to take Yorkshire, I wasn't sure I would have enough score points to force him to give it up....

Why start a war when the ROI (aka Return on Investment) of peace is larger!
there is a great difference between paying 450d for war and giving your enemy 450d to bypass it. you could have spent the money on ships which you get to keep at the end of the war, now your opponent gets the money to build his own ships, and only had to lose a pretty much worthless prov, and got a huge sum of money for it.
just my 2 cents from my experience and observations:)
 

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Hi, not sure if you guys remember me, (Constantine), but I'd be willing to sub if you need it.

Looks like you have a rather good game in the works.

ICQ is 305652187
 

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Sure, .. rather suprising that Persia hasnt been torn apart yet.

What year are you guys in, and additionally, what time/ day do you normally meet?
 

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Roi, last game String, who subbed for Spain, criticized that England is too poor for the age. Now you are criticizing my choice of not going to war. Well, I got England 1.5 game-turns ago, and have tried my best to get some development going. The war with Denmark did not help. Now finally that I am at peace, you are suggesting I go back to war!

Ok, let's look at the opportunities. For 450d, I can buy ~50 galleys. Add to my other ships, that is still less than what Denmark can bring to the table. Last time I tried, and though I won 3 naval battles, his leader was killing more of my ships than I was killing his. All my victories did were to delay his invasion and I lost a great number of ships.

I got my province back immediately and the payment terms are for 10 years. I thought it less risky at that particular moment. Very well could be that I missed an opportunity, but there is no way of knowing how things would have turned out.

Incidentally, I am going to a friend's wedding in San Francisco this weekend. If you are not doing anything on Sunday, care to sub for me?
 

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Joroman said:
Roi, last game String, who subbed for Spain, criticized that England is too poor for the age. Now you are criticizing my choice of not going to war. Well, I got England 1.5 game-turns ago, and have tried my best to get some development going. The war with Denmark did not help. Now finally that I am at peace, you are suggesting I go back to war!

Ok, let's look at the opportunities. For 450d, I can buy ~50 galleys. Add to my other ships, that is still less than what Denmark can bring to the table. Last time I tried, and though I won 3 naval battles, his leader was killing more of my ships than I was killing his. All my victories did were to delay his invasion and I lost a great number of ships.

I got my province back immediately and the payment terms are for 10 years. I thought it less risky at that particular moment. Very well could be that I missed an opportunity, but there is no way of knowing how things would have turned out.

Incidentally, I am going to a friend's wedding in San Francisco this weekend. If you are not doing anything on Sunday, care to sub for me?
and now you are still poor and funding the growth of an opponent
 

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King John said:
It would have been hard for England to get past the Danish fleet, even if cooperating with Sweden. However, if I didn't feel the threat of a Anglo-Swedish naval attack so much I might not have given up Yorkshire. 450D for Yorkshire isn't a bad deal, and war probably would've been more expensive. When Yorkshire is the main, or the only thing England would've wanted this was I think the best way to get it.

:rofl: of course you think that.... Buf Fact is, England is played by a newbie, and has been screwed by subs. It was in excellent shape, after I played first session, 2 manus, all of the british isles, and several NA colonies.

But eventhough it has been screwed, you would have had a much harder time fighting both sweden and england.
 

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devil said:
:rofl: of course you think that.... Buf Fact is, England is played by a newbie, and has been screwed by subs. It was in excellent shape, after I played first session, 2 manus, all of the british isles, and several NA colonies.

But eventhough it has been screwed, you would have had a much harder time fighting both sweden and england.

If you had played, England wouldn't have gotten off so cheaply in the first war agaisnt Denmark and France. And had I played during that session, my country wouldn't have lost 40 warships to attrition :rolleyes: , and put Otto Krumpen to better use. But the fact is, you lost by forfeit, I'm not going to entertain any of this "you're lucky I quit" sentiment. You're lucky you quit :) . Had you stayed on, the only difference would be that my peace terms would've been harsher(only maps in the first war and one prov in the 2nd are rather lenient).
 
Last edited:

King John

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Roi Soleil said:
and now you are still poor and funding the growth of an opponent

Every country is an opponent. England may want a strong protestant naval oriented ally in the future though. Denmark may have been a nuissance for England, but it's not the only thing it should worry about. *Points a finger at Spain and Port's cot mongering in the east* ;) .
 

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Specterx said:
Joro, I think it's important to realize that paying off KJ as you've done, and in your position as England in this game, is a bit like giving up Czechoslovakia to Hitler ;)

Nah, I'm out of good leaders now, and if I wanted to take more from England I could've done it in the last war.
 

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Denmark AAR

In fifteen fiftyfour, the Danish army and fleet were organized for an invasion of England. The House of Oldenburg was to claim the English throne, by right of the royal marriage of the young Danish prince to the daughter of the queen of England.
54 warships were thought enough to control the waters surrounding England, but it quickly became apparent that more ships were needed. 40 galleys were built in the harbors of Sjaellend, and with them finally the English navy was forced to flee, though only after two defeats. Then Johan Rantzau, commander of the Danish army took charge, disembarking with 50,000 soldiers to Anglia. A great battle took place in which the defending army of 36,000 was destroyed. Now the rest of the army disembarked from the fleet to seige and cover lands in southern England and the army beseiging London split to cover cities in the north and disperse the English as they tried to reform.
Months and years passed, London fell but the English held on. They had rallied once more in the north, and were holding out, though much of their lands had been taken and their navy beaten once more. Peace negotiations were taking place though, and a truce was finally signed for Yorkshire and connecticut.
The army departed for home, but then the king recieved a vision. He saw an army of Swedes marching against an army of Danes. Daniel Rantzau was standing on a hill far from the field, but Thor, the mythic god of war led the Swedes into battle. The Danish lines were broken, and routed completely by the deadly Swedish leadership. King Fredrik interpreted the dream as a call to arms.
Daniel Rantzau prepared the army, and in 1566 Denmark declared war on Sweden. A great pitched battle took place between the navies of the combating powers. Denmark won, and from then on had the advantage at sea, but the Swedish navy remained a problem until the end. The army besieged Sweden's German possessions, and a force landed in Kurland. Another force besieged Kalmar, while no sign of the Swedish army could be found. Finally, it attacked the army in Kalmar, driving it out, but the Danish fleet intercepted their fleet and forced it to flee. The army in Kurland, after badly hurting the morale of an attacking army, was annhilated in the shock phase of the battle.
Danzig was taken soon, and all of the rest of Sweden's German possessions. Then Daniel Rantzau led a series of assaults in Southern Sweden, capturing fortress after fortress. When the Swedish army answered with a counter attack, it was beaten back. At the seige of Stockholm, Daniel Rantzau fell, but the war was already won. A peace was signed for Sweden's possessions in Western Germany.
 

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well, dark ages of Sweden has passed, and our greatest fear, Denmark neighbor is behind.

Since beginning of our joining Sweden for reigning it in 1505, we were afraid of Denmark very much. Poor economy, lack of manpower, no near leaders, and neighbor, who tends to be warmonger - that made a sense of our strategy and diplomacy. We followed politic of other countries, specially with any mad offer of Denmark like: splitting baltic lands, releasing TO for it`s event, anti-german alliance, attacking Russia for poland lands, taking Bremen and Hannover and so on. Sweden looked for any ways not to be killed by Otto and Daniel, finally everything is behind.

King John, the ruler of Denmark unpleasantly suprised us by good trade skill, but finally Sweden had usually 1.5 times less income and that suits okay unless Denmark leaders would attack us. Finally that happen, Sweden was a bit stubborn, while could be sneaky by producing false - Denmark asked to sell Kurland for not big number of ducats, and the best solution would be to delay the deal until the end of session, but Sweden decided to be proud, and was attacked in 1566. We knew, that we need to survive for 4 years, because there were no chance to struggle with Daniel The Shocker Six with our economic and manpower. Denmark didn`t use all benefits of tactic that could make our life much harder, and Sweden did everything able almost ideally. Several sieges were kicked, and some infantry annihilated, and we could not make fight directly with Daniel for almost 3 years. Bremen and Hannover were sieged and captured without resistance at all - Sweden perfectly understood the role of this provinces, when Denmark offers us to join them - we just got income from them for 30 years, and that was very important for swedish economic.

Big loss was Danzig, but finally risk of unoading troops to Danzig to kick sieges was too much big, because danish fleet sailed around and could block us there forever without chance to return to homeland. That gives majority of warscore points to Denmark and that was key to make us peace later.

After several unsuccessful attempts to capture any province at baltic or sweden, Denmark found out Daniel is very fine for assaulting. Really Sweden couldn`t resist this point at all also, because 16K infantry with Daniel could assault small forts, but we worked to delay assaulting as much as possible (Denmark finally assaulted only two forts). In fact three small tactical mistakes were done - first time we attacked Daniel with half maitenance, second time we suddently clicked (and initiated by lag), so troops retreated from Svealand instead of fighting there against danish minority. And when we were moved to final attack newcomer monarch Hans (2-3-2) leaded the army instead of better leader (4-3-4) and the battle was lost in shock phase.

Finally Denmark could gain warscore for stabhitting, and Sweden was pleased to be given Bremen and Hannover, useless strategic lands for us for now. We saved key provinces, and Denmark lost leaders advantage forever. Without leader Denmark wouldn`t able to capture 2 south swedish province, that allowed finally to stabhit for 2 provinces, and honestly, if Denmark continue sieging, i was hoped a lots to kick Denmark forces back coz higher morale after death of Daniel in 27 dec 1569.

Now Sweden laughs at Denmark attempts to settle peace by pointing on rich Iberians and mightly Russia (our good friend). Sweden executed almost all denmark wishes for many ages, and Denmark kicked all that in a moment and started sudden attack. This behavoir can not be trusted, and we finally come out from shadow, having leader and morale advantages. Sweden knows very good how to use it`s advantage against wealth and fleet of Denmark, and tactical moves are open book for us... It is very sad that Denmark war with England brought King John to decision of galleys building, otherwise Sweden would control sea for first months of offensive war and would win campaign (we put in shadow 40 built galleys, sure there shouldn`t be completely hidden, but we hoped much of them won`t be noticed). But now we are going harder way, and we feel ourself enough strong not to let Denmark go without compensation.

Busy King of Sweden,
Tonio
 

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edits if possible please: 220 ducats from swedish treasury to russian one
 

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Edit & a sub

Edits for England: +1 stab (hit the cancel military access twice due to lag).

ENGLAND NEEDS A SUB for this weekend. I will be travelling and will not be able to return in time for the game. I have asked a few people, but no confirms yet. Starting today, I won't have access to ICQ or email -- please email/ICQ the GM if you can sub on Sunday. Thanks!
 
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I think the reason there is problematic exploration is that there are random explorers. I wish I knew how to just dump those random events and keep the others...... any ideas? Besides making my own file, I dunno. I dont think you can sleep/history out random events since they can occur multiple times. Maybe I will tinker with that idea....

I hated to read that long Temujin posting about being dissappointed. I certainly can relate to his exasperation. People really need to work on chilling out and stopping the argument cycle. I am not lily white here myself, I am just pointing out a problem.
 

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King John said:
If you had played, England wouldn't have gotten off so cheaply in the first war agaisnt Denmark and France. And had I played during that session, my country wouldn't have lost 40 warships to attrition :rolleyes: , and put Otto Krumpen to better use. But the fact is, you lost by forfeit, I'm not going to entertain any of this "you're lucky I quit" sentiment. You're lucky you quit :) . Had you stayed on, the only difference would be that my peace terms would've been harsher(only maps in the first war and one prov in the 2nd are rather lenient).


:rofl:
That war would never have happend, so the whole basis is wrong, get your facts straight before you begin rambling....

I told france he should contact me after session, and he could have it, the lag was unbearable to even talk... He never did, and I never played second session, we obviously had some bad miscommunication... Shit happens, would have been solved had I played, I didn't...

Had I/you played that session I would sunken your navy, and helped sweden and brandenburg take the whole of denmark... I would have given maps of canada to france and sweden, just to piss you off. And leave me alone while you killed yourself, when you wouldn't accept defeat.

I quit this game cause of lag, some bad GM'ing, bad setup and very bad sportsmanship from some players...

King John you are the worst looser I ever seen, just that you write this shit pissed me off... you are bordering the newbies... your performance yesterday proved that again... rather ruin the economy / nation. Than take a minor setback.... hell you let sweden get 85% of the NA coast, because you wouldn't cede 2 provs... :rofl: But guess I should thankyou, because you are so stubborn. The sweden I subbed, was set back on track, I am quite sure the perm will be more than pleased.

But now that you show your true colors, I am glad I missed the session and didn't stay in this game...
 
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ryoken69 said:
I think the reason there is problematic exploration is that there are random explorers. I wish I knew how to just dump those random events and keep the others...... any ideas? Besides making my own file, I dunno. I dont think you can sleep/history out random events since they can occur multiple times. Maybe I will tinker with that idea....

I hated to read that long Temujin posting about being dissappointed. I certainly can relate to his exasperation. People really need to work on chilling out and stopping the argument cycle. I am not lily white here myself, I am just pointing out a problem.

I do not think you could sleep out random events :wacko:,

And if you do, it could cause an imbalance in them, causing others to appear more ofter; but then again the imbalance would be not that heavy.
 
Aug 1, 2001
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Well, I am building another new random event file anyway. These are going to use a blind-option system to create uncertainty of outcomes. Look at this example.

Event: Rebel Uprising
Option A: Put it down brutally
Option B: Concede to some of their demands

There are three copies of this event. Each Option has "triggerevent" commands instead of normal commands. The trigger commands point to pre-made fixed effect events with no options. So when the event pops up, both options appear to do nothing (i.e. blank option list). Thus the player does not know which of the three copies he has gotten!

Copy 1:
Option A: -1 Stab, 2 random revolts
Option B: -1 Centralization, -100 ducats

Copy 2:
Option A: -2 Stab, 4 random revolts
Option B: -2 Centralization, -200 ducats

Copy 3:
Option A: +1 Centralization, Revolt Risk -5% for 12 months
Option B: -2 Stab, 5 random revolts


Thus when you make your choice, you dont know what the consequences will be. In the first copy, the people are lukewarm about either option. Repression of the revolt results in a moderate loss, concession results in moderate losses as well. In the second copy, the people are hostile towards you. Both options are exagerrated and consequences are more costly. In the last case, the people are awed by your power. Putting down the revolt increases your control over the country and discourages more rebellions. But concession in this case makes you look like an appeaser and thus you suffer.

Of course, going into this choice you have no idea what you are facing. Just like in real life.......?