Imperial elective - non-reformable?

[MateuszS]

It appears that player can't change government of Byzantium to something better (other way than factions). While in christian BYZ it's minor inconvience, it blows up pagan reformation:
- heir designation from meritocracy and civilized doctrines doesn't work in elective governments
- agnatic clans just make BYZ/RE agnatic
- enatic clans cause chaos: while allow player to choose only women, succession doesn't change and christian electors still choose men

 

[SigurdStormhand]

Well, historically changes of religion never really affected the way the Emperor was chosen.

Heir Designation determines YOUR heir, not the heir to the Empire, likewise Enatic Clans determines that YOU can only vote for women.

Imperial Government is not reformable because it's already "completely reformed" in the same way the Republican Government is. These Governments already have fully worked out legal and customary justifications for how they choose their leaders, it's everybody else who needs to "catch up" in the minds of the citizens.

 

[makaramus]

so its good when you can hold cities directly but not good when you cant change goverment
I must be honest I was getting tired of seeing byzantium being forced into gavelkind over and over again so I dont care so much and its still very strong goverment since you can:
1)Blind people to make them cannot be ruler
2)You got more power in your hand

also make sure you give titles to people like you and you will allways secure your heir

 

[nightgerbil]

so its good when you can hold cities directly but not good when you cant change goverment
I must be honest I was getting tired of seeing byzantium being forced into gavelkind over and over again so I dont care so much and its still very strong goverment since you can:
1)Blind people to make them cannot be ruler
2)You got more power in your hand

also make sure you give titles to people like you and you will allways secure your heir

ye but a kid cant inherit. you only have to lose your 50year old and his 32 yr in old in rapid succession (thanks death chess, black death or assassins) and not your playing your 12 year old grandson... who guess what? isnt emperor cos you couldnt make him heir. GG start over.

 

[SigurdStormhand]

ye but a kid cant inherit. you only have to lose your 50year old and his 32 yr in old in rapid succession (thanks death chess, black death or assassins) and not your playing your 12 year old grandson... who guess what? isnt emperor cos you couldnt make him heir. GG start over.

Children can inherit - you just need to have bribed the two-three most powerful electors.

 

[Federalist girl]

(Incidentally a government system that doesn’t put kids in charge is actually a GOOD system )

 

[Furion Matsuya]

(Incidentally a government system that doesn’t put kids in charge is actually a GOOD system )

Yeah but the kid isn't actually ruling, that would be bad in and of itself but it's the Regency that's the real issue lol.

 

[Serenity84]

Coming to power as a child isn't a bad thing in the long run. A regency may be annoying, but long reign bonuses stack up pretty early on. So eventually everyone loves you no matter what you do

 

[WJS]

But can't we just have a government system that lets me hold any holding type without penalty and lets me choose whoever I want as my successor?

Oh, right, nomad.

[/s]

 

[SigurdStormhand]

(Incidentally a government system that doesn’t put kids in charge is actually a GOOD system )

This is what Brothers and Nephews are for.

 

[nightgerbil]

(Incidentally a government system that doesn’t put kids in charge is actually a GOOD system )

Hey I like tanistry. Thats a GREAT system. Imperial elective though...

 

[Enriador]

Imperial Elective is an insanely powerful succession type - you just must know how to deal with it - aka to ensure a steady supply of high Martial/Intrigue dynasts around.

This difficulty is countered by having the most powerful government type in the game *and* Duchy Viceroyalties, so it's a very fair trade. Rather than bashing an election law you don't understand, try figuring it out.

 

[nightgerbil]

Imperial Elective is an insanely powerful succession type - you just must know how to deal with it - aka to ensure a steady supply of high Martial/Intrigue dynasts around.

This difficulty is countered by having the most powerful government type in the game *and* Duchy Viceroyalties, so it's a very fair trade. Rather than bashing an election law you don't understand, try figuring it out.

Ok fair; learn how to deal with it. So how do you suggest dealing with losing 2 rulers in rapid succession early in a run when you havent had a chance to grow your dynasty yet? no other system is as punishing as this or as likely to game over you early on. Sure after 5 generations when half the nobilty is my dynasty its np. I understand it (the law) perfectly and spent time in game using it so I do understand its flaws: you also overstate its strengths but thats ok.

So please enlighten if you will?

 

[makaramus]

Ok fair; learn how to deal with it. So how do you suggest dealing with losing 2 rulers in rapid succession early in a run when you havent had a chance to grow your dynasty yet? no other system is as punishing as this or as likely to game over you early on. Sure after 5 generations when half the nobilty is my dynasty its np. I understand it (the law) perfectly and spent time in game using it so I do understand its flaws: you also overstate its strengths but thats ok.

So please enlighten if you will?

sometims bad things happen.
sometimes you will start the game, play 5 days and die without heir

 

[nightgerbil]

sometims bad things happen.
sometimes you will start the game, play 5 days and die without heir

Sure and sometimes black death hits and everyone dies and you can't do a thing. Thats just RNG. Whats your point? We were talking about how Imperial goverment being unreformable kinda blows if you would prefer a diff inheritance system. Why would we want that? because it makes you more vulnerable to the rng and in some circumstances less able to recover. Cue the people queuing up to tell me Im wrong I just need to l2p.

 

[Enriador]

how do you suggest dealing with losing 2 rulers in rapid succession early in a run when you havent had a chance to grow your dynasty yet?

Depends on bookmark, but on general terms:

1) Imperial rulers can hold cities and hoard insane amounts of money. Use it to buy cheap Favors - and thus Electoral support - from councillors.

2) Sway the electors with highest electoral power, and send your Chancellor to their capitals.

3) Use Intrigue focus to slander the most voted non-dynastic candidates

4) Always pick good commanders/viceroys, preferably those with the Content trait and high opinion. Use the character finder to Invite outsiders if necessary.

5) It's possible to lose in all electoral systems - from Princely Elective to Eldership. It doesn't represent a game over, and with the steps above you can retake your throne within a generation *and* use that time to grow and improve your dynasty.

There are plenty of Roman restoration runs around. Imperial Elective has been proven to be a challenging yet perfectly manageable succession law, you just gotta use your brains.

 

[makaramus]

Sure and sometimes black death hits and everyone dies and you can't do a thing. Thats just RNG. Whats your point? We were talking about how Imperial goverment being unreformable kinda blows if you would prefer a diff inheritance system. Why would we want that? because it makes you more vulnerable to the rng and in some circumstances less able to recover. Cue the people queuing up to tell me Im wrong I just need to l2p.

hey... if you having that much problem at convincing people to vote for your heir then take their titles away (since they are permant titles you can allways take them away) and give them to your son or someone you possesed with demon cult

 

[SigurdStormhand]

Ok fair; learn how to deal with it. So how do you suggest dealing with losing 2 rulers in rapid succession early in a run when you havent had a chance to grow your dynasty yet? no other system is as punishing as this or as likely to game over you early on. Sure after 5 generations when half the nobilty is my dynasty its np. I understand it (the law) perfectly and spent time in game using it so I do understand its flaws: you also overstate its strengths but thats ok.

So please enlighten if you will?

Avoid appointing commanders with high diplomacy and make sure as many members of your council as possible are unlanded lowborn foreigners, for starters.

Aside from that, keep a close eye on the relative vote scores and always keep money back to bribe a couple of high-value voters like your Marshal.

Above all, prioritise the succession over everything else because a smooth succession means a stable Empire and stability, and prosperity, are more important than anything else.