I think the worst issue with supply and attrition right now is that occupation of unguarded cites causes attrition. ak ones not in zone of control of a fort
Imperator - Sunday Morning Design Corner - May 5th 2019
- Thread starter Johan
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
I'm not talking conceptually, I mean given that Imperator already exists and has mana removing it isn't just a case of "oh let's just take away all of the mana costs from everything" or some equally simplistic implementation.
Obviously if the game had been designed from the outset without mana that would be entirely different.
Yes that is really annoying, you can avoid it by not occupying the cities but it require some Micro to do so.
Yea, I was to write about this but my post was already too long
Mines have MANY things to it. They were absolutely necessary to wage a war. Gaining control of Balkan and Greek mines was a reason why Philip and Alexander could do what they could do. Silver mine discovery allowed Athenians to fund their fleet.
Also mines needed labor and a lot of it. worker slave life expectancy was about three years if I remember so to get Your gold You needed blood, and to get blood You needed war or piracy at least. This is also great for fighting flavor: if You win a war would You send Your opponents to die in Your mines? Kill them all for opposing You? Sell them into slavery? Release them to incorporate into Your empire as freemen or military units? There is so many possibilities.
@Johan
In my opinion it's not so much bonuses that are needed to make religions and cultures feel more diverse - it's events.
Events from Saturnalia to Samhain, to interactions with your characters that, well, characterize them based on traits and culture (beyond the current repetitive binary choices), would add so much to the game, and an enormous amount of replay and exploration value.
More events for controlling certain provinces, or any other triggers to be found during playthroughs would help your empire feel alive and developing in a way that just painting the map and having bigger stacks cannot.
In my opinion it's not so much bonuses that are needed to make religions and cultures feel more diverse - it's events.
Events from Saturnalia to Samhain, to interactions with your characters that, well, characterize them based on traits and culture (beyond the current repetitive binary choices), would add so much to the game, and an enormous amount of replay and exploration value.
More events for controlling certain provinces, or any other triggers to be found during playthroughs would help your empire feel alive and developing in a way that just painting the map and having bigger stacks cannot.
Is there a way to see important characters in other countries? Aside from the initial pop up when a country is about to descend into chaos, that tells me I can now use a new character action to support pretenders and shows several character portraits, I can't find a way to get at the other potential pretenders to offer support. (Unless they are personal rivals of the ruler, anyway, then they can be accessed via the ruler's character screen.)
This is more a UI/religion thing, but is there any chance that you'll be getting rid of the "sacrifice pig" button on the Jewish religion screen, ideally replacing it with some other icon and sound effect?
Problem is, you're comparing it to EU: Rome whereas everyone else is comparing it to CK2 and EUIV who've been out and in active development for nearly a decade now. Maybe not entirely fair, but that's you competition in this genre of games.
- 1
When talking about omen Power, one issue I have with omen Power is how incredible weak it is compared to Everything else. 10% omen Power can give you 2% taxes or 0.5% disciplin. To get 10% omen Power take you 4 Techs or two inventions and for that you get basically nothing.
If omens are to be developed also make sure to make omen Power a worthwhile investment rather than one of the weakest modifiers in the game. If you can not change base value on omens, make Tech and inventions add more omen Power or let omen Power influence other things.
Also omen Power should be tied into stability instead of being something that is static.
If omens are to be developed also make sure to make omen Power a worthwhile investment rather than one of the weakest modifiers in the game. If you can not change base value on omens, make Tech and inventions add more omen Power or let omen Power influence other things.
Also omen Power should be tied into stability instead of being something that is static.
@Johan thanks for this post. I would like to adress three things.
1) abstract currencies are not bad, because they are abstract. They are bad, when they artifically limits your possibilities and force you to chose between strange options (invest in military technology or... speed up you army - for instance). I have never seen anyone complaining about prestige or piety from CK2 (or army expirience from HOI4). They are very different from EU4/I:R mana, because in CK2 they are gained from your actions, not from from some invisible character pools (in EU4 at least you can hire advisors). I would love that type of currencies - that you can actively earn by your actions. It is kind of other way around right now. So, for instance, you should be able to earn some Sword Mana from battles or drilling your troops, Paper Mana from trade or development or even helping you allies - and then spend on something (like technology, military traditions) . It would be much better. I know that it would be hard to balance and think about good way to use that, however.
2) This game badly needs better internat management. I do not hope for the level of representation as in Victoria 2, but I hope you will introduce somewhen something like POPs needs or agendas. Buildings and religions (omens) are another thing - it is very immersion-breaking when all you can do is to add another granary or marketpalce to your city. For Jupiter's sake, this is antiquity - a period when great cities emerged. You should do something about that.
3) war and geography should have even greater impact on you country development. I like that you can gain some slaves from conquest, but being in peace for a long time should also have great impact on your economy. Also, professor Jared Diamond taught us that geography is the main reason for a direction of cultural development. It should be somehow represented in the game. For instance, if you have a lot of costal provinces, you should be able to develop ship technology faster. But it is just an example, I am sure you could create better mechanics.
Anyway, I like many of annaunced changes.
1) abstract currencies are not bad, because they are abstract. They are bad, when they artifically limits your possibilities and force you to chose between strange options (invest in military technology or... speed up you army - for instance). I have never seen anyone complaining about prestige or piety from CK2 (or army expirience from HOI4). They are very different from EU4/I:R mana, because in CK2 they are gained from your actions, not from from some invisible character pools (in EU4 at least you can hire advisors). I would love that type of currencies - that you can actively earn by your actions. It is kind of other way around right now. So, for instance, you should be able to earn some Sword Mana from battles or drilling your troops, Paper Mana from trade or development or even helping you allies - and then spend on something (like technology, military traditions) . It would be much better. I know that it would be hard to balance and think about good way to use that, however.
2) This game badly needs better internat management. I do not hope for the level of representation as in Victoria 2, but I hope you will introduce somewhen something like POPs needs or agendas. Buildings and religions (omens) are another thing - it is very immersion-breaking when all you can do is to add another granary or marketpalce to your city. For Jupiter's sake, this is antiquity - a period when great cities emerged. You should do something about that.
3) war and geography should have even greater impact on you country development. I like that you can gain some slaves from conquest, but being in peace for a long time should also have great impact on your economy. Also, professor Jared Diamond taught us that geography is the main reason for a direction of cultural development. It should be somehow represented in the game. For instance, if you have a lot of costal provinces, you should be able to develop ship technology faster. But it is just an example, I am sure you could create better mechanics.
Anyway, I like many of annaunced changes.
Last edited:
I hope to not appear aggressive or against someone, but the thing it's simple. The games and the company growth in the last ten years was fantastic. This is the company that developed what is now CK2, the Hearts of Iron series, the Europa Universalis series, Victoria, various stand alone game, etc... this is no more a company of niche games, but a company with a lot of feedback from the various games. With the development of business and products, also tastes and expections develop within the costumers and they expect to start from a more refined and evolved state of the base products, thanks to all the "know how" that the company acquired in the years. Eu: R had fallacies but was somewhat acceptable from the niche costumers because the situation of scarcity, now people expected some important step foward, that happened probably only and partially technically (the map is gorgeous, the character potrait system it's fantastic) but not in the depth and in the flavour, the things people expect more in game about historical context and maps. So what this mean? That after you have developed the Smartphone you can't sell the next phone with the feature "call people through phone numbers" and expect that the majority of costumers like this for the simple fact that the core feature it's perfectly working. The people and the costumers are entitled? Well maybe yes from an ethical point of view, but in business ethics it's only a part of the deal, the point is that business worked this way since the first badly done wheel.
- 1
Well, the problem might be that we are not those players ten years old. We have grown up with Paradox, which sticks in its bussiness model all the time.
There is no doubt that IR is amazing in release, such as the map, DNA, statistics of ancient states and tribes. However, the style is based in EU4, which we appreciated it in 2012 but have got tired now.
If this game is not released by Paradox, most of us would support it with few complaints. Regretfully, it is Paradox's product. We want more realistic and deeper game costing higher price when it's released, rather than a bland shell but cheeper. It's Paradox's misfortune but also its fortune.
There is no doubt that IR is amazing in release, such as the map, DNA, statistics of ancient states and tribes. However, the style is based in EU4, which we appreciated it in 2012 but have got tired now.
If this game is not released by Paradox, most of us would support it with few complaints. Regretfully, it is Paradox's product. We want more realistic and deeper game costing higher price when it's released, rather than a bland shell but cheeper. It's Paradox's misfortune but also its fortune.
- 1
Looking forward for the 1.1 patch. Keep up the good work Johan & the dev team. It is okay to receive a rough launch. Many games bounced back from much more.
I think this might be worse than HOI 4's launch. Hopefully the trajectory is similar. I just wish it had gotten delayed.
It is not like they have any choice, either they permanently damage their reputation and may eventually lose Everything or they continue developing on the game.
HOI4 is their most played game.
That's why I said I hope Imperator follows its trajectory. I still think a delay could have smoothed out the launch.
Likely their next game will be delayed and be more expensive to purchase on release. What people seems to want is like 69.99$ releases and maybe 39.99$ dlcs with the price reflecting the quality and effort put in.
@Johan I would just like to say that for me at least I got exactly what I expected after reading dev diaries and watching most streams. As it stands now I find the base game to be a solid and fun release, already sunk 60 hours into somehow so thanks to you and the team! Really looking forward to the 1.1 update, after following the development of paradox games for many years I think the initial roadmap seems like a great starting point for the future development of the game.
What I'm most looking forward to, apart from QoL updates already mentioned, is more content in the form of flavor events both nation/culture specific and generic ones. After having played CK2, Stellaris and EU4 in their current state Imperator does feel a bit "empty" in comparison, even though it is a completely unreasonable standard to compare with, so the future increase of events and stories will definetly liven things up.
Also, as someone mentioned earlier in the thread, I think a change in the weights used by the system to determine slave distribution would be great. I feel the capital recieves a bit too large a share of captured slaves.
Ps. Creds to the AI team, the AI definetly feels more proactive to me. Was dominating britain, got a civil war and instantly almost all AI nighbours jumped on the bandwagon in my moment of slight weakness. Got my first game over in a singleplayer strategy game for as long as I can remember hehe.
What I'm most looking forward to, apart from QoL updates already mentioned, is more content in the form of flavor events both nation/culture specific and generic ones. After having played CK2, Stellaris and EU4 in their current state Imperator does feel a bit "empty" in comparison, even though it is a completely unreasonable standard to compare with, so the future increase of events and stories will definetly liven things up.
Also, as someone mentioned earlier in the thread, I think a change in the weights used by the system to determine slave distribution would be great. I feel the capital recieves a bit too large a share of captured slaves.
Ps. Creds to the AI team, the AI definetly feels more proactive to me. Was dominating britain, got a civil war and instantly almost all AI nighbours jumped on the bandwagon in my moment of slight weakness. Got my first game over in a singleplayer strategy game for as long as I can remember hehe.
But what if one wishes More slaves to end up in capital? Also second combat row confirmed?