Imperator: Rome Developer Diary - 4th of November

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Efimer

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What might make it real interesting is if the numbers part of a character's stats were hidden...

I wouldn't mind about hidden stats numbers, but i should know if a character has high-average-low martial stats, for example

...Visible things would also be powerbase and loyalty because those are things that can be seen in the day to day...

Sure, the loyalty of a disloyal character will be the last thing you're going to see once yo turn your back to him.
Loyalty is a complicated thing, everybody wants to seem loyal, specially the treacherous characters, and sometimes you're able to perceive this duplicity, but i don't know how to show this in the game
 

TheMind

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I'm expecting to get burned at the stake for this but...

What might make it real interesting is if the numbers part of a character's stats were hidden. We could see if the character was "lively" or "dull", "Arrogant" or "humble", etc, but the numbers, nope. Kind of a crap shoot when hiring a guy, just like irl.

Visible things would also be powerbase and loyalty because those are things that can be seen in the day to day. But maybe a hidden variable "can be treacherous" added to some who appear loyal. Because we all know that never happens.

This might be a completely turn out for the books (even negative), but it should be implemented VERY carefully, in case.
 

Jerry_train0r

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What would these minor families actually do from a gameplay perspective? Just having them there while keeping great families would be unnecessary clutter. Immersive perhaps, but not really useful.
exactly. no difference between cutting off all families and introducing secondary characters in their place. no advantages except the loss of immersion and flavor. really, why do we need immersion and flavor in pdx's games? I just want to drive soldiers on the map
 

Jack Churchill

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exactly. no difference between cutting off all families and introducing secondary characters in their place. no advantages except the loss of immersion and flavor. really, why do we need immersion and flavor in pdx's games? I just want to drive soldiers on the map
Yes because eye rolling hyperbole helps either side in this discussion.
 

Bovrick

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Does this change make larger nations more stable?

Adding a Great Family by moving up a Tier will dilute the fixed Power Base assigned to the head of each Family, meaning each disloyal head is less of a concern for the Civil War calculation; as you'll likely need more characters to go disloyal to get the same share of your Power Base into the disloyal bucket. At the same time, the relative number of desired jobs for each Great Family will fall each time you add a new Family, meaning it should become pretty easy to avoid Spurned Families, and the Loyalty problems that come from that. Am I missing something, this seems counterproductive?

This change in general does feel very gamey. Maybe it really improves the game, I guess I will reserve judgement until I see how it plays.
 

Pugmak

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I wouldn't mind about hidden stats numbers, but i should know if a character has high-average-low martial stats, for example



Sure, the loyalty of a disloyal character will be the last thing you're going to see once yo turn your back to him.
Loyalty is a complicated thing, everybody wants to seem loyal, specially the treacherous characters, and sometimes you're able to perceive this duplicity, but i don't know how to show this in the game

On loyalty, there's signs and indicators on the day to day, just gotta pay attention, irl speaking. In the high pressure cooker world of ancient politics, I suspect its even more the case. But, in an effort to keep in interesting, I also suggested the hidden trigger of being capable of treachery. Be cool if that fired off only on a really big deal when you, the player, were really counting on that character's loyalty for something.

Anyhoo, just ideas. They're not going to be adopted and that's probably for the best. This isn't even the Suggestion part of the forum :/
 

Nebukatnezar

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Will there be an option to "remove" an unwanted family and maybe even seize their wealth? This happend quite often in history if families fall in disgrace from a rulers point of view or if they acumulated to much wealth. Even simply because they are to unpopular among the "common" people and to push the rulers own popularity be doing so.
 

Don Wing

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The Idea is GREAT! the changesm the flavour and the quality life things added, I had some suggestions.
- Increase the number of families by 1 per tier AND according to systems, Repubics and Tribes should have more according to size, Monarchies in middle and Despotic systems can even have one or two.

Example, A regional power shoud have: If Republic 5 Families (4+1), Tribes also 5, Classical Monarchies 4 and Despotic systems 3 (4-1)

Also, Republics / Greek cities, should have a more quantity AND quality number of possible characters to choose from, as they systems give acces to offices to common citizens. Despotic sholud be very limited to pool characters, for example.
 

Nussor

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Eh, I kinda like the idea, but I can already see issues with this system:
1. Basically everybody will be a cousin to eachother, first or second degree.
2. Families won't rise and fall as a result of emergent gameplay, but simply due to arbitrary changes in country rank.
 

TheMind

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Eh, I kinda like the idea, but I can already see issues with this system:
1. Basically everybody will be a cousin to eachother, first or second degree.
2. Families won't rise and fall as a result of emergent gameplay, but simply due to arbitrary changes in country rank.

The main problem I would address is the second one, that would very probably break the gameplay.
 

Nussor

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I would have like to see Minor Families that don't get scorned, but also can't adopt and procreate at a lesser rate. Prestige would not accumulate, but be a "constant" value, like Stability, with respective modifiers. So if one Minor Family gets some really great stuff done they might take the spot of the lowest ranking Major Family.

I understand that the number of characters in the game needs to be kept in check, but I'd strongly prefer a more organic system.
 

hcek

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2. Families won't rise and fall as a result of emergent gameplay, but simply due to arbitrary changes in country rank.
yes, that is disappointing. I'd rather there be the same number of families but with only a few qualifying as "great" with the number of allowable great families increasing with your country size and the families themselves rising or falling with the times. I'm curious how the system plays though.
 

Lord Lambert

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I'm expecting to get burned at the stake for this but...

What might make it real interesting is if the numbers part of a character's stats were hidden. We could see if the character was "lively" or "dull", "Arrogant" or "humble", etc, but the numbers, nope. Kind of a crap shoot when hiring a guy, just like irl.

Visible things would also be powerbase and loyalty because those are things that can be seen in the day to day. But maybe a hidden variable "can be treacherous" added to some who appear loyal. Because we all know that never happens.
100% behind this. Making things blurry is never a bad thing in these kinds of games. Humans are complicated, and theres sure as spit no way to put an accurate number on just how charismatic or zealous a person is, especially when that person speaks another language and lives half a world away. Obfuscating the crap out of all the hard numbers would be a great change.
 

MichaelJanuary

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There is already a huge number of subtle influences on characters (many of which totally goes over the head of casual gamers) including pseudo random events which could shift things completely.

The visible stats are fine, and if anything need better descriptors of what they really do and how they affect the game. For every hour of game time I've had, I had to spend as many hours reading wikis, reddit articles, forum posts to figure out how things like factions, sieges, assaults, influence, prestige, and a myriad other mechanics work.

Obscuring the numbers even further will just move people like me out of the game.
 

TheMind

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I'm expecting to get burned at the stake for this but...

What might make it real interesting is if the numbers part of a character's stats were hidden. We could see if the character was "lively" or "dull", "Arrogant" or "humble", etc, but the numbers, nope. Kind of a crap shoot when hiring a guy, just like irl.

Visible things would also be powerbase and loyalty because those are things that can be seen in the day to day. But maybe a hidden variable "can be treacherous" added to some who appear loyal. Because we all know that never happens.

How would you give bonuses for example when a character is a ruler or commander?
 

Pugmak

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How would you give bonuses for example when a character is a ruler or commander?

If it were up to me?

You'd get a good hint via the known traits. Those behaviors that the character has shown during his life.

The rest of it, the proof would be in the pudding. You'd know when you employed them. Rulers by how they ruled and commanders by how they did on the battlefield.

I'm sure the leaders of Rome didn't know they were sending failures to lead their army to face Hannibal at Cannae, after all.