Imperator: Rome Developer Diary - 12th of October 2020

Imperator: Rome Developer Diary - 12th of October 2020

  • Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

Kapitalisti

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they don't have to be called scientist, maybe inventor or researchers or whatever it was called in ancient Rome
It... wasn't. Any sort of stuff we'd understand as "research" today was done by assorted scholars, philosophers, generals (for military "tech") and random smart dudes with cash and free time. So, nobles and citizens. There's really no need to get too granular with the pop classes.
 
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This was very necessary, looks much better! The previous system made no sense at all. The technology window could use some artwork though, looks a bit uninspiring right now...
 
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WolfAleron

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This looks amazing. I just hope that the "martime patrols" invention indicate some sort of change to the trade system that allows us to use our navy to protect our trade, just like in Eu4.
"Protecting trade" is dumb immersion braking mechanic that shouldn't exist in EU4 in the first place.
 
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Kadanz

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Teaser looks like an infrastructure mapmode of road networks. So a mapmode for better viewing of your road systems?
 
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Gilbert95

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Overall I like this approach, especially in the potential for the technology and invention system to me more tightly integrated with other aspects of the game. Right now they basically stand alone you occasionally spend some excess cash to get an extra modifier here and there. There is no sense of planning or working the tech/invention progression into your strategy. I will echo several others here and say I hope the invention UI gets a little more love before release.

Lastly, I find myself starting to agree with those who have a problem with the teal buttons. I think the new UI/UX is a huge improvement and addresses one of my biggest concerns since game launch. I also think the idea of differentiating buttons in a clear and distinct way is the right way to go; I just find the particular color jarring.
 
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trjacobin

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Yeah, I feel like teal needs to go. Why not opt for a copper or a bronze color? That would also seem a bit more era suitable as well. Hell, I'll even take a faded gold or a light purple, just not teal (and this over-saturated!)
 
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KBKDB

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As much as I like what I am seeing, I do have a concern.

What happens when you research everything? I know this is a problem in the current state of the technology system as well, but I would love to see something to Stellaris implemented.

More specifically, repeatable technologies/inventions.

Also, the current state of the military technology route is not good at all once you research all available inventions. With each new level of military tech, you get higher and higher military upkeep with insignificant morale gain. Please take a look at that as well. Gaining a technology level should not result in punishing the player.
 

Herennius

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Also, the current state of the military technology route is not good at all once you research all available inventions. With each new level of military tech, you get higher and higher military upkeep with insignificant morale gain. Please take a look at that as well. Gaining a technology level should not result in punishing the player.
I see were you coming from, but on the whole too abundant Gold is a problem in later phases of the game. So while I'm not "married" to the logic of technical progress increasing army upkeep, I'm wary to simply take that gold sink out. If that is done, another replacement has to be found. But I guess all of that will come in consideration, as they hinted that the economy will see significant changes.
 
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Todie

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Invention Benefits:
Most inventions will still focus on making your country slightly better at something, modifiers to things like the strength of certain units, to population happiness for specific pop types, how good your country is at demanding land in wars, etc.
The new system does however also support direct effects from inventions, or locking actions, laws, unit abilities, etc, behind them. Instead of the implementation of a certain invention just getting you a better ship type it might also get you a better port, or a new ship.
To some extent this relates to features that we have yet to talk about, so there isn’t too much to show here yet.
@Braindrift

I wonder to what extent we’ll see inventions that add both a modifier and some new unlock combined in one... for example, tribesmen inventions would do well to be combined with something - anything - but particularly with any unlocks pertaining to migration or levies or whatever.

To keep with the matter of the tribal-focused inventions: if you can't give these inventions components that are meaningful to non-tribes, I hope you can move them to earlier in the tree at least, to be in closer reach for low tech tribals.

Also, maybe it would be good to have many of the military inventions sthat are specific for tribal governments / tribe-centric cultures to be placed early in the tech tree..?
 
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Decius

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@Braindrift

I wonder to what extent we’ll see inventions that add both a modifier and some new unlock combined in one... for example, tribesmen inventions would do well to be combined with something - anything - but particularly with any unlocks pertaining to migration or levies or whatever.

To keep with the matter of the tribal-focused inventions: if you can give these inventions componenets that are meaningful to non-tribes, imhope you can move them to earlier in the tree, to be in closer reach for low tech tribals.

Also, maybe it would be good to have many of the military inventions sthat are specific for tribal governments / tribe-centric cultures to be placed early in the tech tree..?
The best would be, if tribes and non-tribes would have different inventions when it comes to tribesman bonuses. So inventions are replaced, with the government type or they have different trees with pop bonuses. Or a similar solution.
 
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Jays298

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Yeah, I feel like teal needs to go. Why not opt for a copper or a bronze color? That would also seem a bit more era suitable as well. Hell, I'll even take a faded gold or a light purple, just not teal (and this over-saturated!)
What if they color coded them in bold, vibrant colors, so its not like all notifications have the same color. Think of Crimson, Green, Indigo, I liked the original blue even if it clashed with the oceans.

Or when in doubt just paint the whole thing in Roman red.
 

Mikebloke

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Looking forward to 2.0 more with this update, yes the UI/UX changes is great, but its changing up the bare bones features to another level that will revive the game for me. The tree is not super different to what we have, but it'll feel more like a proper flow to it, and as someone else said, the lack of seeing visually what came before and what will come after made it difficult to connect with it. Now we can role play a bit more with it as well, and have an idea about where to go with things.

I appreciate other people are a bit like "yeah but what if you research everything" but I don't think that is the current issue right now, also I think generic research at end of tree system doesn't always work. Yes for grand games like civ or "end of technology" styled games like stellaris or alpha centauri its fine, maybe not so much for an ancient era game. Also, if the research is still very much purchase based, you'd pay end game money (presumably decent by that point) continually to get... what benefit? Late game God mode of other resources, modifyers?
 
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Limbojack

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What happens when you research everything?
I sincerely hope we won't be able to research everything, unless we max out a small, highly developed OPM for research point generator.

It seems like they're taking a page out of Vic2's book, which is a great thing, and in Vic2, far from every nation is able to max out research, and that's a great thing. If you're only able to get ~75% of the techs, that means you'll have to make hard choices about what to prioritize (in theory, hopefully they won't make certain choices OP).
 
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Nooooooooo... I was worried a tech tree was going to be the solution to the problems with the invention system. Really dissapointed. Now cultures and regions that have 'unlocked' certain techs for centuries or millenia will have to unlock them again at the Roman pace. CKIII and EUIV made some steps towards moving away from such silly systems, Innovations and Institutions could be improved upon, but are already far superior to a tech tree. (Not to mention how a lot of these things make little sense as 'Inventions', as they had already been 'invented' for a veeeery long time.)
If a level up provides a free innovation, countries that start at level 1 or 2 would have free techs at start.

Here's an idea: instead of one tree for all, reshuffle tech trees.
The actual techs would stay the same but the paths to unlock them would vary for different tags, cultures and religions.
E.G. a these cultures and regions would start with these different techs at the first steps, each religion has its own tech tree etc.
This could be easier to do than making unique branches but provde a lot of diversity.

Way way way too much clickable content. Its cool to organize the invention system which is a complete mess of random upgrades, but you also need to trim it down.
But the number of techs stays the same. They're just displayed more obviously.

Please consider improving the current trade system for 2.0!
Yes, do it.
 
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Dolor Max

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Why not use the Research Points to drive progress through the trees?

This can be a combination of:
  • Buildings (libs/academies/Wonders)
  • Researcher's skill
  • Money support. (e.g. central support of research)
  • Trade. This was one of the main ways ideas flows around the ancient world (I believe)
  • Nobles/citizen pops
This can further be divided into research points per tech area
  • Specific buildings now provide research points
    • Temples --> Religious tech
    • Training camps --> Military tech
    • Market places --> Economic tech
    • etc.
Just some thoughts... :cool:
 
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Krey_Lollipop

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My first thought upon seeing the teaser was some form of pilgrimage. However, on second thought I don't know if it makes sense to cross Persia on religious grounds. But those lines really do look like they're representing something! Power? Technology? Supplies?

On the subject of innovations, I think EU4 has some interesting ideas that could be brought over. What I believe would be most epic is if innovations worked like an expanded version of institutions. But instead of the slow spread in that game, you'd be actively helping it along by spending, managing trade routes, fighting wars etc...

If that's too much work, then I suppose an english parliament mixed with some splendor could do the trick. So based on the size of your empire, you get an amount of seats you need to win. Some could be bought with gold, while others might require you to fend of pirates, perform certain trades or perhaps elevate a relevant family. Then upon winning enough seats you unlock the innovation. (EDIT) Just to be clear, it wouldn't be called parliament or seats. It would just be the same mechanics. So you're not bribing the athenians to use better triremes, but rather doing small things that would help new technology spread, like investing in relevant infrastructure or appointing skilled commanders. It also shouldn't be as direct as parliament, so in that regard it should be more like lobbying in HoI4.
 
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ludna

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I don't like tree systems. Not mission trees, nit focus trees, nor invention trees. Even if all systems have a tree system under the hood.