Imperator: Rome Developer Diary #110 - Egypt Mission Trees

Imperator: Rome Developer Diary #110 - Egypt Mission Trees

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I think with more, and better, mission trees it becomes more of a shame that you can't progress two or three mission trees at the same time (or at least jump between trees with brief to moderate cooldowns in between).
Eventually, when I get time, I'll try and do a proper suggestions post. But it feels like a real shame when some of this cool content is missed because you can only do one mission tree at a time, and by the time you get to a tree you have already completed all the actual missions.
 
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Hi @AreysAK ! these missions look good!

a couple of questions:

Since one of the missions is called Chremonidean war, does it mean that Chremonides will be spawned in Athens as a character?

Of course! :)
And How will it work for those who don’t have the Hellenistic World flavour pack?

There will not be anything for the smaller nations, I'm afraid, we're only adding new missions for the big Diadochi nations (see Thrace, Macedon, Antigonids, Seleukids, Egypt).
I. Does it mean the Hellenistic World flavour pack will be removed from the Deluxe Edition and made free (like the Punic Wars)?

II. No changes to the mission UI?
I am one of those more critical of the changes to the UI. I just wanted to post the old and the new mission interfaces side by side so we can discuss the changes. Personaly I prefer the old one.

Why have the arcs above the statues been removed?

People have already stated a dislike for the basic arrows in inventions trees.

EDIT: I mean the niches in which the statues were set, not arcs)
mission art old.png
mission art new.jpg
 
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Okay, so next two weeks will also be dev diaries with mission trees then? Can't say I care about the missions that have been introduced for other nations so far at all, as a lot of the tasks are gamey and don't make sense with the way the game was designed; picking up random spread out ports for example, you want entire provinces to fully utilize local trade goods, picking up one port city is simply pointless, or the missions that want you to develop areas, when the only actual good way to develop an area is by stacking 2 types of buildings in a city, and food buildings in the other territories.

For people more interested in flavour this is good stuff don't get me wrong, but for me adding more mechanics for all nations to play around with, or adding smaller but more interesting little events and heritages around the world for flavour, would be the preferred way for the devs to spend their time.
 
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To PDX why did you remove the ability after forming argead empire to leave the capital where it is and instead give 3 choices only in 2 alexandrias and babylon ?
 

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Please make the Jewish pops more resistant to conversion to Hellenism or Kemetism than in previous patches, as a religion Judaism is supposed to survive the ancient age, even if Judea is annexed by its neighbors.

Also, it will still be possible to abandon Greek culture in favor of Egyptian one?
 
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I can't imagine this pacification was particularly easy, given that an explicit and core part of Judaism is remembering the story of having been slaves in Egypt. Not impossible, especially if, in this region, the Ptolemies focused on how Alexander had conquered Egypt as a way of distinguishing themselves from the more ancient Pharaohs, but definitely not easy.

Also, out of curiosity, wasn't the region renamed to Palestine by the Romans following the Bar Kochba Revolt, during the timeframe of the game?
 
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Also, out of curiosity, wasn't the region renamed to Palestine by the Romans following the Bar Kochba Revolt, during the timeframe of the game?
Palestine is what the Greek successor kingdoms called it, long before there were Romans in the region :)
 
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I can't imagine this pacification was particularly easy, given that an explicit and core part of Judaism is remembering the story of having been slaves in Egypt. Not impossible, especially if, in this region, the Ptolemies focused on how Alexander had conquered Egypt as a way of distinguishing themselves from the more ancient Pharaohs, but definitely not easy.
Historically, there was a good relationship with the Ptolemies. Josephus inserts a story indicating that Alexander was favorable during the conquest. Even if apocryphal, it's indicative of positive attitudes from the period.

Also, out of curiosity, wasn't the region renamed to Palestine by the Romans following the Bar Kochba Revolt, during the timeframe of the game?
Jerusalem was renamed after that revolt but this is nearly 150 years after game's end.
 
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Historically, there was a good relationship with the Ptolemies. Josephus inserts a story indicating that Alexander was favorable during the conquest. Even if apocryphal, it's indicative of positive attitudes from the period.
Indeed. A large community of Jews lived in Alexandria and was perfectly integrated into the local culture. While maintaining their religion and traditions, many Jews (also in Palestine) adopted Greek names, spoke and wrote Greek, and were very active in promoting their culture's position at court and good relationships with the Ptolemies. It is in this environment that the Septuagint translation was written, and several later books of the Bible were probably written in Alexandria. On the topic, it is interesting to read the Letter of Aristeas - almost certainly a later work, but it reflects a generally positive attitude on both sides. On the opposite side, the Seleukid domination was more oppressive and bloody.
 
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If the mission trees focus on the first few Ptolemies, does this mean we finally get to banish Ptolemaios Keraunos and succeed as Ptolemaios II Philadelphos instead? :p
Unfortunately, this type of event is too specific for a mission (what happens if Keraunos dies before you take up the mission?). That said, there might be ways around it... ;)
 
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Wow look so neat. Please change Egypt color so not look like wasteland. Also I have question about Mission Tree. Is all mission historical? If some mission not historical then should be option to disable those one.

I read about War Elephant and it say Cassander or maybe Pyrrhus of Epirus is first person to transport War Elephant by boat. It impossible before he do it. I think he might be only person who ever did it.

Pyrrhus of Epirus - Wikipedia

Pyrrhic War - Wikipedia

War elephant - Wikipedia
You can rest assured that all missions and events have sound historical bases.

As for the elephants, you make some heavy claims! ;) Pyrrhus was the first to deploy war elephants for war in Europe, and he certainly moved his elephants by ship, but he was not the one and only. Ptolemy II (who, by the way, loaned Pyrrhus his war elephants) implemented the system of hunting - transporting - training of elephants described in the event, which continued for about a century (about 270-186 BC) and is attested by inscriptions, papyri, and literary sources. There are several scholarly works on the topic - e.g. I would suggest "ELEPHANTS FOR PTOLEMY II: PTOLEMAIC POLICY IN NUBIA IN THE THIRD CENTURY BC" by Burstein, S.M.
 
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I would suggest "ELEPHANTS FOR PTOLEMY II: PTOLEMAIC POLICY IN NUBIA IN THE THIRD CENTURY BC" by Burstein, S.M.
Could have been a good story: "Harry Potter and the Elephants for Ptolemy" :).
 
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Hi @AreysAK ! these missions look good!

a couple of questions:

Since one of the missions is called Chremonidean war, does it mean that Chremonides will be spawned in Athens as a character?
Probably a bit cheeky on my part ;) No Chremonides, I'm afraid, but the "spirit" and goals of the war will be there.

And How will it work for those who don’t have the Hellenistic World flavour pack?
The Pharos decision was never locked behind a DLC (the Mouseion is). Of course, you will not be asked to do something you can't do because you don't have the right pack!
 
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Would you consider renaming ''Egypt'' into ''Ptolemaic Kingdom'' much on the spectrum of Phrygia correctly renamed as Antigonid Kingdom?
I think that Egypt is more a geographical turm much like upper and lower egypt, which I think are corrently regions in the game. At this era that the game takes place, after Alexander's death, the world and politics were focused more into the exeptional characters and leaders rather than regional level. Egypt is a poor term to describe the Ptolemaic Kingdom with syncretic gods, blend cultures, and territories from Cyrenaice to Palestine and the term reminds more the very ancient pharaonic era.
 
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This seems like a whole lot of steps in the right direction! Very nice indeed. What about a mission (either in the Eastern Border, Thalassocracy, or Greater Empire paths) that would replicate the strong interest under exactly the three first Ptolemies towards posing as the protector of the Ionian cities? We have a lot of epigraphic evidence for Ptolemaic propaganda in the local sanctuaries testifying to intense lobbying and grooming of the poleis of not only Caria, but also Ionia. It was in particular the threat of the Galatae after 270s that provided a useful external threat that Ptolemy II, especially, promised to safeguard the Asian Littoral against.
 

goodcigar

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Nov 24, 2020
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You can rest assured that all missions and events have sound historical bases.

As for the elephants, you make some heavy claims! ;) Pyrrhus was the first to deploy war elephants for war in Europe, and he certainly moved his elephants by ship, but he was not the one and only. Ptolemy II (who, by the way, loaned Pyrrhus his war elephants) implemented the system of hunting - transporting - training of elephants described in the event, which continued for about a century (about 270-186 BC) and is attested by inscriptions, papyri, and literary sources. There are several scholarly works on the topic - e.g. I would suggest "ELEPHANTS FOR PTOLEMY II: PTOLEMAIC POLICY IN NUBIA IN THE THIRD CENTURY BC" by Burstein, S.M.
If you make AI always do Mission that not exactly historic then game world will never be historic. That like railroad non-historic outcome. That why I am worry about Mission Tree. In HOI4 AI has Historic Mode and Non-Historic mode.

Pyrrhus and Ptolemy that still only two people who move War Elephant by boat. It obvious very hard to do and most people not do it. Hannibal not do it he march whole army through Spain, Gaul, and the Alps.

Also Ptolemy gift War Elephant unit to Pyrrhus. That not possible in game I not think. There is Pyrrhus of Epirus game on Steam call Hegemony III: The Eagle King from 2017 and Longbow Games. It get new DLC soon about ancient people on Sardinia. It have very good supply and logistic system.

Pyrrhus and His Army | Weapons and Warfare

Pyrrhus invaded Italy after “invitation” made by Tarentines, who called for help against Romans. Pyrrhus in preparation for invasion asked Ptolemy Ceraunus for help, which Ptolemy found this as good way how to get rid of Pyrrhus for time being, and to have open options in Macedonia, against Antigonus Gonatas. He sent 3000 cavalry and 20 elephants to Pyrrhus. Together Pyrrhus managed to muster 20000 heavy infantry (majority Epirote Pikemen, but also Macedonian and also a lot of Mercenaries from Greek states), 3000 horse, 2000 archers and 500 slingers.

Transporting this force over sea to Italy was feat of its own, as so far, nobody was able to transport elephants over open sea. yet, Pyrrhus fleet even got into a storm, which scattered whole fleet, so Pyrrhus landed with just 2000 men and 2 elephants, all 20 elephants survived transport which was an unprecedented accomplishment of their handlers, he marched to Tarrentum with this small force, and practically did nothing, until remaining of fleet landed. At that point he set up a garrison, and started to forcibly recruit Tarentines into his army. Some tried to escape, but garrison managed to catch a lot of them. He was afraid of their loyalty, therefore he mixed them into his Epirote Pikemen formations.
 
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AreysAK

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This seems like a whole lot of steps in the right direction! Very nice indeed. What about a mission (either in the Eastern Border, Thalassocracy, or Greater Empire paths) that would replicate the strong interest under exactly the three first Ptolemies towards posing as the protector of the Ionian cities? We have a lot of epigraphic evidence for Ptolemaic propaganda in the local sanctuaries testifying to intense lobbying and grooming of the poleis of not only Caria, but also Ionia. It was in particular the threat of the Galatae after 270s that provided a useful external threat that Ptolemy II, especially, promised to safeguard the Asian Littoral against.
Who told you it's not there? :p
 
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