Imperator - Development Diary - 7th of January 2019

Imperator - Development Diary - 7th of January 2019

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Trin Tragula

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As we didn't get Ethiopia today, will we get it next week @Trin Tragula ?
An astute observation ;)
It will come at a later time. Had some things that needed seeing to first.
Rest assured there will be continued map updates in each diary though :)
 

alvaro

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Agathocles also had help from some of Carthage's Numidian "allies".
In game terms we would consider the Numidians a type of Carthaginian subject, but that is for a later diary. :)

That said, if one wants to hire mercenaries to use against Carthage in the system described in this DD then it is necessary to first bring them home to Rome. They start out exiled after all.
a type? are we going to have several types of vassals? mate, you are not helping with my hype :p :D
 

TheDarkMaster

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Is there any mechanics for mercenaries beyond just hiring them on a temporary basis? I was always disappointed with other games that the only special mercenary orders where special cases that had a unique creation mechanic for them. I'd like to be able to use them to hire to train a professional army, organize an elite mercenary guard ala the Vangarian or Swiss guard, and potentially negotiate a more permanent arrangement (stuff like landing them or form permanent contracts at a slightly lower maintenance cost) just as a few examples of potential mercenary mechanics.
 

Palando

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An astute observation ;)
It will come at a later time. Had some things that needed seeing to first.
Rest assured there will be continued map updates in each diary though :)
Any hint on what part of the map you're going to show us next week :oops:?
 

Bearjuden

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Another few questions that occurred to me, and then hopefully I will not have any more and maybe a few can be answered:

  • Can mercenaries relocate what province they are based out of at all? I think larger companies would tend to move towards areas contested by larger empires (more able to afford their services) while all companies should prefer to move towards generally contested areas as opposed to peaceful areas, preferably with the concentration of companies scaling to how much the area is contested (that is, companies should recognize that at some point it makes more sense to make a smaller area your niche area to be hired in than it does to join 11 other companies in the same place). I definitely think relocation should make it in in some capacity though, since why would a mercenary company continue to reside in an area that no fighting has happened in for 100 years?
  • Can new mercenary units be created and old ones destroyed, and if so, is it something the player has agency over at all (telling your 4th son to go find prestige fighting amongst the mercenaries) or is it something that happens semi-randomly?
    • If so, will any mercenary companies with geographically dependent names change names when they do so?
  • Can mercenaries change their size and unit composition or will they always recover to be the exact same size and shape?
    • Related to question 1, if relocation is not a thing, will mercenary companies in peaceful areas grow smaller over time, and vice versa?
  • Will mercenary companies ever refuse your offer to hire them? Even beyond not having paid mercenaries last time, let's just say Captain Alpha has personal beef with your nation's leader. You want to hire Captain Alpha in a war. Can he tell you to sod off? Or even give a discount to your enemies if they want to hire someone? Does this extend to if they have a rivalry with one of your generals or other characters in your administration they dislike?
    • In summary, how much does the personal element of your ruler and his advisors and generals and administration all impact the geopolitics?
 

cristofolmc

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Different types of subjects depending on the country. Colour me hyped.
 

MaximusSC

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Hiring the army immediately brings it under your control, but does not move it to your territory. Instead, hired mercenary armies hired outside of your territory will begin in a state of exile, so they can be brought to your territory to then be used in whatever conflict you intend.
I don't understand why would/should hired mercenaries start out exiled? They were 'hired'. It seems counter-productive to hire mercs only to move them several provinces before they can start fighting. They should be able to start fighting immediately. Of course without some sort oversight from the hiring nation the mercs could/should have a higher flight risk where they become rogue or even turn on the hiring nation. Maybe a competing nation could increase that risk by offering them more gold (ducats, for the EUIV players).
 

Rubidium

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I don't understand why would/should hired mercenaries start out exiled? They were 'hired'. It seems counter-productive to hire mercs only to move them several provinces before they can start fighting. They should be able to start fighting immediately. Of course without some sort oversight from the hiring nation the mercs could/should have a higher flight risk where they become rogue or even turn on the hiring nation. Maybe a competing nation could increase that risk by offering them more gold (ducats, for the EUIV players).
It's almost certainly a balance aspect. Otherwise you could do things like hire mercenaries based in the province you are attacking (as someone else mentioned) to suddenly increase the army in the middle of a battle (in which case multiplayer battles would partially come down to who hit "hire" first, never a fun thing) or hire mercenaries based in the middle of the enemy nation to suddenly conquer the capital while the army was fighting elsewhere (let's face it, realistically no country would let an unaligned army camp outside their capital during wartime, but there is no way to deal with unhired mercenaries in-game before someone hires them).

Sometimes you need to sacrifice perceived realism for gameplay.
 

MaximusSC

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there is no way to deal with unhired mercenaries in-game before someone hires them
Sure there is. If you consider unrest in a province or nation as a potential factor as to how many mercs (% of unhappy population) might be available for hire. Thus making the number of possible hired mercs fluid. The happier a nation keeps it's civilians the less likelihood separatist's would be willing to sell out to another nation.

Another thing to consider is that mercenaries should never be (or they should rarely be) as strong as a fully trained and equipped army. That is unless those separatists (mercenaries) are funded by an outside source (Somewhat like what players can do in EUIV by supporting rebels).

you could do things like hire mercenaries based in the province you are attacking (as someone else mentioned) to suddenly increase the army in the middle of a battle
That would simply add yet another element to the game. If the number of mercs you hire in the middle of a battle are factored by unrest of said province. The hiring nation still has to have the cash to pay the mercs.

In addition other things could be added when hiring mercs. Things such as the mercs could demand territory to be their own (probably the province they are hired in). Mercs could also demand promises before they will accept a call to arms from a foreign country. They could demand things such as to be Governor of province or to be a general or even a marriage into royalty or to spread/strengthen/enforce their religion.

As an option to counter hired mercenaries from inside one's nation the host nation could have the option to hire loyalists. This would result in or allow for a civil war of sorts.
 

Will Steel

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This sounds nice but I have a few questions:

1. Can the mercenaries be forcibly disbanded from your lands in late game? As said, it doesn't make much sense that there would be giant mercenary armies sitting around Italy when frontiers of Rome lie in Gaul and Syria.

2. Who pays for those mercenaries? Do characters in that mercenary company (especially the leader) pay out of their own personal money? Do they disband if they are unable to sustain themselves?

3. Can mercenaries change their home cities and relocate?

4. Can new mercenaries pop up around the game with time? Can rich citizen characters create their own mercenary bands?

5. Can "disenfranchized characters" after a civil war (Pompey's sons for example) turn into mercenaries and sellswords to sustain themselves in foreign lands?

6. In the same way, can mercenaries double as adventurers? Things like princes or rogue citizens starting their mercenary companies and then trying to take over the republic/kingdom's throne.

7. Can permanent named mercenary companies be created in mods? For example if I wanted to mod in a permanent mercenary company named "Warriors of Olympus" can I do so?

8. Are there ship-based mercenaries like CK2, so that landlocked nations can hire and use ships if they need transport?

Also, I agree - they should use local traditions instead of whoever hires them. If I hire a mercenary Greek army, I want them to fight in the Greek fashion, not suddenly turn into Roman legions. If I hire Numidians with their famous cavalry, I want them to fight like Numidians not suddenly drop down to my level.

Also, a suggestion - add a small money cost to mercenaries when they are hired, instead of just the 50 mana cost. Mercenaries have three kinds of payments - the advanced payment (when hired), the regular contract pay (the usual monthly payment) and the final disbandment pay.

Maybe make the mana cost dynamic, based on the size of mercenary company? A small band shouldn't cost the same as a huge army.
 
Last edited:

WolfAleron

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Graphics look amazing. Hope it'll run better then stellaris and won't or jsut run super slow or slow down the more you play. Cuz This looks amazing, hoping it'll become my new Fav game, cuz thus far nothing beat EU4. So waiting, hoping <3
 

Kliwarrior

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Do Mercs use ships (or any kind of naval movement) ?
Baleares slingers were quite famous and the should start in their islands.

It would be nice to have a chance to "overpay" mercs and have them changing side (or at least become free again)
 

Trin Tragula

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Not sure i like the idea of mercs being bought with mil points. Perhaps a base currency cost modified by the size of the company as well as the type of units it has, e.g. more heavy infantry would make it more expensive to hire etc. Overall though, i like the change from EU4's system of merc spam.
The points are used for hiring them but the major actual cost is paid in money, as upkeep and in severance when you fire them.
They are hardly cheap at 400% higher pay than normal troops :)

Think of the monarch points as the effort to actually make the deal and integrate the company in your military. Whereas the money in upkeep and upon disbanding is their actual salaries (only paid for doing actual work).
 

wickermoon

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Weren't standing armies something of an oddity back then? As far as I know only Sparta, Rome, Egypt and Macedonia had these (not even Persia). Am I wrong in that assumption? Then why did Paradox decide to depart from Crusader Kings II's feature of handling "reserve armies"? I really would've liked to see different states having different kinds of military doctrines, like having a standing army or just having a reserve army. In that same vein, I'm also very sceptical about the fact that mercenaries are supposed to cost 400% more than your standing armies. Does that really make sense or is it a game balance thing and totally anachronistic?
 

Lord Hoosier

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Weren't we supposed to get Eithiopia?
 

Palando

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ORiemaster198

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The Arabian nations look rather interesting. Quite curios to see how they play, in comparison to the more well known classical nations.
 

Lord Hoosier

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I'm very excited about Himyar!
 

jubanos

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Apologies for a simple question, but I haven't read every dev diary yet and am a bit confused by the year '451' in the screenshots. Is that 451 BC/BCE and the year 'decreases' as the game advances?
 

mavregade

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Apologies for a simple question, but I haven't read every dev diary yet and am a bit confused by the year '451' in the screenshots. Is that 451 BC/BCE and the year 'decreases' as the game advances?
It’s the Roman calendar - years since the founding of Rome.