Imperator - Development Diary - 4th of March 2019

Imperator - Development Diary - 4th of March 2019

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Trin Tragula

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Hello and welcome to another development Diary about Imperator:Rome!

Today I will be talking about some changes we have done to the alliance system since it was last described in a developer diary, as well as the Military Traditions and political geography of India. :)

Alliance Changes

As we described in previous development diaries, calling allies to arms in Imperator has for a long time transferred the war leadership to a stronger party. There were a few different reasons for this, most importantly being able to drag in a major power to use them offensively as a small country is not necessarily realistic or balanced. There are risks with going to war even if you win that the greater country opens themselves up to, such as the risk of occupation and enslavement of its population.

Problematically however the transfer of war leadership often resulted in situations that were hard to predict or read. Small conflicts would frequently spiral into huge ones, with the biggest empires getting involved in situations where they would have little gain from doing so, while calling in all their allies.

The old system for transferring war leadership has therefore now been scrapped, with a number of changes to how alliances work introduced instead. Most prominently an alliance is now a contract of military cooperation between equals, whereas other types of treaties will be used for situations where a greater power defends a lesser one.

Transfer of War Leadership
warleadership.png

War leadership will now only transfer to an overlord when a subject is attacked, or from a guaranteed country when its strongest (most populous) protector is called. Once war leadership has transferred, the new warleader can call in their subjects and allies.

While allies will still help out in wars they will never take over leadership of the war from you.

Alliances & Guarantees
guarantee.png
Alliances can now only exist between countries of the same rank and Great Powers can never have any allies at all (instead they will have to defend themselves and rely on guarantees or subject relationships to protect others).

When your country changes rank through acquiring more cities, all existing alliances will be transformed into guarantees (there will also be a confirmation dialogue if demanding land in peace would result in a rank change).

A guarantee is now no longer just a casus belli but will instead lead to a call to arms when the guaranteed country is attacked, and it now also costs 1 diplomatic relations slot.

With these changes we hope to better reflect the drastically different types of relationship states could be in during this era, where a power may well act to defend, weaker states, but never as an equal (Rome itself is a good example of this type of diplomacy). With the possibility of more advanced cooperation between powers of more comparable strength.

Country Ranks
newranks.png
Allong with the changes to alliances we have changed the country rank definitions a bit. In particular we have increased the number of cities needed to be a Great Power (and therefore without allies) significantly, meaning there are no longer any Great Powers at the start of the game (though the Maurya Empire is close).

Country Ranks:​
  • Migrant Horde: No Cities
  • City State: 1 City
  • Local Power: Between 2 and 24 cities.
  • Regional Power: Between 25 and 99 Cities.
  • Major Power: Between 100 and 499 Cities.
  • Great Power: 500 or more Cities.

India
indiaall.png
Today it is time to visit the subcontinent of India, separated from Persia and the Middle East by mountain ranges and deserts. This is also as far east as the map will go, it extends all the way to the Arakanese mountains and the natural border between India and Burma. India sticks out compared to all other regions we have been through in a number of ways, it is a region of vast fertile plains, high mountain ranges and deep jungles (a terrain type rarely found outside of India). India is also home to a very large part of the world population, even in 304 BCE, and the countries here generally have far larger resources than one might expect from their size.

Politically India has in history often been as diverse as Europe, with a number of different states fighting for hegemony, but at times it has also been united under great empires. Alexander the great, in his day, invaded even this region and conquered most of the Indus valley, leaving a number of Greek satraps and Greek settlements behind. In 304 BCE the subcontinent has however just watched the rise of the Maurya Empire under Chandragupta Maurya, who have risen from relative obscurity in the southern Indus Valley to defeating both the Nanda Empire, and the remaining Greek Satraps in India.

Religiously India at the start of our game is dominantly hindu but with Jainism and Buddhism both on the rise. Buddhism especially would come to spread from India in all directions, eventually becoming a major world religion.

In the last few diaries I have noted that there are numerous problems in finding sources and references for history of this era. India is far more well known than Germania or Scandinavia at our start, especially the part that was relevant to the Mauryas or the Greeks and their emissaries (some who visited the Mauryan capital in modern Bihar). India is also a very big place however, and there are still many parts of it that where we have had to extrapolate later day information.


Indian Military Traditions:
traditions.png

Starting Tradition - Rathas: Allows Chariots

“Maurya Path”
  • Versatile Infantry: Archers Offense +15%
  • Descendants of Airavata: War Elephant Defense +15%
  • Warhost of the Empire: Light Infantry Morale +10%
  • Natural Pathfinders: War Elephant Jungle & Forest Combat Ability +15%
  • Dedicated Archers: Archers Discipline +10%
  • Homeland of our Fathers: Heavy Infantry Forest & Jungle +15%, Light Infantry Forest & Jungle +15%
  • Integrating the Tribes: National Tribesman Happiness +20%
  • Finisher Bonus - The Bureaucracy of War: Monthly War Exhaustion -0.02
*Coastal Path*
  • Natural Harbors: Galley Cost -15%
  • The Vyuha System: Archers Morale +10%
  • Masters of the Sea: Trireme Morale +10%
  • Plunder!: Allows Raid Ports Ability, +20% Enslavement Efficiency
  • Flexible Divisions: Morale of Armies +10%
  • City of the World's Desire: Fort Defence +15%
  • State Artisan: Archers & Chariot Cost -10%
  • Finisher Bonus - The 'Diplomatic' Fleet: Trireme Discipline +10%
*Noble Path*
  • Fit for a King: Chariot Defense +15%
  • Trained to Kill: War Elephant Discipline +10%
  • Armored Archers: Archers Defense +15%
  • Padma Vyuha: Allows Padma Vyuha Tactic
  • Imported Horses: Chariot Discipline +10%
  • Elephantine Abundance: War Elephant Cost -15%
  • Exotic Soldiers: Mercenary Maintenance -15%
  • Finisher Bonus - Striding Besides Giants: War Elephant Morale +10%

Northern India
nortpunjab.png

(Indus Valley)
nortgujarat.png

(Western Coast, the Maru Desert and the Avanti region)​
nortgangeticplain.png

(Gangetic Plain)​
nortindiabengal.png

(Bengal)​
Northern India is dominated by the Indo-Gangetic Plain, much like the Nile delta this is a very densely populated and fertile part of the world. Unlike the Nile Delta however it is far greater in size. The plain itself has been the heartland of a number of empires throughout history and at our start it is dominated by the newly formed Maurya Empire, which has just recently established its capital in Pataliputra, in north eastern India.

The Indus region in the far west has for a period of time been under Greek rule, after having been conquered by Alexander the Great and then handed over to a number of successive Greek Satraps. It is now theoretically part of the Seleucid Empire, but in practice these satrapies are under Mauryan control. The Seleucid and Mauryan empires have been in continuous conflict for a number of years now, ever since Seleucus and his son Antiochus moved east to secure Bactria, and the eastern Persian Satrapies.

As our game starts the Seleucid-Mauryan conflict is about to end, with the Seleucids handing over control over large parts of the eastern parts of their empire in return for a truce with the Indian conquerors and a great number of War Elephants to use in their wars with the other Greek Successors.


Starting Countries:

nortindiapolitical.png

  • Maurya: In time the Maurya empire would come to unite almost the entire subcontinent, and be remembered as one of the more successful pan-indian Empires. In 304 BCE however this is a very young kingdom, not unlike the big Diadoch monarchies in the west. The ruler, Chandragupta Maurya, would in time build a state different from previous ones in this region. It is hard to overstate the influence of the Maurya empire, not just because of the amount of land it came to include but also due to the conversion and missionary work of Ashoka for the Buddhist faith.
  • Atavia: Not all parts of the Maurya empire is ruled directly by Chandragupta’s governors. The tribal forest regions were generally kept in a more loose relationship as a subject state. Atavia is a settled tribe (previously known as a Tribal Kingdom), and starts as a Tributary of Maurya.
  • Kamarupa: In the far east, in the jungles of the Brahmaputra alley, the tribal state of Kamarupa remains independent from the Maurya empire.
  • Kalinga: Independent kingdom in modern Orissa. Kalinga famously resisted Maurya rule until it fell to Ashoka in a very bloody and savage military campaign. So much so that Ashoka is said to have sworn forsworn excessive violence and embracing Buddhism.
  • Karusa: Tribal state in the jungles of Eastern India. Not much is known about this region at the start of the game in history.
  • Indravana: Another tribal states in the hilly jungles of modern Orissa and Chattisgarh.
  • Bhoja: Tribal state in the Nimar valley, western India.
  • Rathika: Tribal state on the north western coast of India. Right on the border of the Maurya empire.


Southern India
southtamil.png

(Southern Tip of India, Sri Lanka and the Tamil Country)
southcentralindia.png

(Central India)
While most states in the south are not as well documented as northern India the Indian ocean ports here would become known to Roman and Greek traders, this region is also home to some of the oldest dynasties in the history of India, such as the Pandya’s, Cholas and Cheras.

Especially the island of Sri Lanka and the Tamil country in the far south west are very populous regions however and while not as strong as the Maurya empire in the north they are owned by powers with the potential to grow their influence in 304 BCE.


Starting Countries:
southpolitical.png
  • Ashmaka: Weak Tribal State in the dry Deccani upland, just south of the Maurya border. Would be conquered by the successors of Chandragupta, who would also extend the road network south through this region.
  • Pitnika: Coastal kingdom controlling parts of the Western Ghats and the Konkan coastline.
  • Kuntala: Tribal state in the central South Indian upland, eventually conquered by the Mauryas.
  • Andhra: The tribal Andhra state centered on the Krishna river rule parts of the eastern Indian coastline, a region that still bears their name.
  • Mahisha: Tribal state of which we know very little in the South Indian interior plateau. Conquered by the Maurya empire within a generation of our start.
  • Alupa: Long lived Tribal State on the coast of Karnataka, ruled by the Alupa Dynasty. Would in time survive many of the great empires of India, including the Mauryas, far into the middle ages.
  • Satiyaputa: Tribal state in the Mysore plateau and the western Ghats.
  • Chera: One of the most important kingdoms of the far south, the Chera control a number of the Indian Ocean trade ports, that would remain commercial entrepots up until present day.
  • Ay: Small kingdom on the tip of the Indian subcontinent, in modern Kerala. The Ay dynasty, is one of the oldest known lineages of its region.
  • Chola: Autocratic Monarchy on the eastern coast of southern india (later known as Coromandel, a name based on what they called their realm). The Cholas would historically create their own overseas empire but at our start they are just a local power in this region.
  • Pandya: Autocratic Monarchy in the rich Tamil country ruled by a dynasty that considers itself already quite ancient by 304 BCE (and in fact they are also playable both in Europa Universalis 4 and Crusader Kings 2).
  • Anuradhapura: Kingdom ruling the island of Sri Lanka at our start, based around the great city of Anarudhapura. The kingdom would in time become greatly influenced by the spread of the Buddhist faith, an influence that remains to this day.
 

Gibsy

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You weren't kidding when you said soon. lmao

Now to read. Cheers! :D
 

magriboy0750

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Alliances can now only exist between countries of the same rank and Great Powers can never have any allies at all (instead they will have to defend themselves and rely on guarantees or subject relationships to protect others).
Best change ever,i hope it will make the game more harder when you are a great power in late-game.Without allies,it will be,i hope,harder to conquer the little states.
Cordially.
 

Wagonlitz

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Is there a reason that the most eastern parts of Bengal are uncolonised? Seems a bit weird given how it's a very fertile and densely populated area, though I don't really know much about Indian history, so perhaps things were vastly different there in the past.
 

Nikolai

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Interesting changes in the new dev diary. But not so sure about the change making Great Powers not able to have allies at all? A bit restricting, no? Will current alliances be cancelled the moment you go over 500?
 

lemmox

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No alliances for Great Powers is a bold move, and definitely not one that I think translates to more recent eras. But I'm curious to see how it works out in this context.
 

Trin Tragula

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Interesting changes in the new dev diary. But not so sure about the change making Great Powers not able to have allies at all? A bit restricting, no? Will current alliances be cancelled the moment you go over 500?
They will be transformed into guarantees.
The peace view will warn you that you change rank and ask you if you’re sure you want to though :)
 

Rabid

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Balance changes sound good. Sufficiently dominating powers not being allowed to have allies is something I've wanted in EU4 also.

I wonder if the Pandyas are the only dynasty which exists on map at the start of Imperator, CK2 and EU:4?

p.s. I think that this displays the great injustice of them getting only generic Indian NIs in EU4!
 

Joccend

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About how many cities are in Italy/Greece? I'm just curious about the size countries need to reach to become a Great Power and how 500 cities looks on the map in Europe.
 

Palando

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About how many cities are in Italy/Greece? I'm just curious about the size countries need to reach to become a Great Power and how 500 cities looks on the map in Europe.
Rome has 288 cities in the dev clash, while owning most of Italy and parts of northern Illyria.
 

jmurray27

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You should make the no great power alliances not effect player to player alliances. Sometimes you just want to paint the world two colours with your co-op partner and I would hate to see something like this get in the way.
 

Gibsy

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Rome has 288 cities in the dev clash, while owning most of Italy and parts of northern Illyria.
So at that point conquering all or most of Gaul/Iberia would probably be enough to get GP status. Presumably anyway.
 

magriboy0750

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You should make the no great power alliances not effect player to player alliances. Sometimes you just want to paint the world two colours with your co-op partner and I would hate to see something like this get in the way.
I think it will be moddable.So if you want to do so,simply mod it.
 

Cahokia

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Is that part of the Bengal Delta colonizable or is it wasteland? It looks like wasteland since it doesn't have the white highlighting but its not painted in Mauryas colors even though part of the Himalayas wasteland are. Is this intended? I don't care which it is I'm sure you know it's historical precedence just wanting nice borders in India. o_O
 

WolfAleron

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Is there a reason that the most eastern parts of Bengal are uncolonised? Seems a bit weird given how it's a very fertile and densely populated area, though I don't really know much about Indian history, so perhaps things were vastly different there in the past.
I was reading online about this period of history in Asia. And you know what? Lands east of Bengal have just huge question mark on the maps xd so no info what was there I guess.
 

hashinshin

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You should make the no great power alliances not effect player to player alliances. Sometimes you just want to paint the world two colours with your co-op partner and I would hate to see something like this get in the way.
You should keep the rules for player and player alliances. Co-op games are the vast minority of multiplayer games, and multiplayer is a huge abuse case of terrible and unfun alliances if EU4 MP has taught us anything.

My main concern is this change has killed AI alliances in multiplayer. Nobody will want to ally AI if you're stuck in to either option:

A. Not being able to call them in to offensive wars
B. Not being warleader when they're attacked
 

Iskhiaro

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I like the changes to alliances, makes a lot of sense! Could you confirm which nations start as major powers, given that there are no great powers at the start of the game?
 

Wagonlitz

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I was reading online about this period of history in Asia. And you know what? Lands east of Bengal have just huge question mark on the maps xd so no info what was there I guess.
I wonder why provinces then are included rather than being wastelands, given how other question mark areas in e.g. Ukraine and the Baltics things just are made wastelands.
Though perhaps some prominent country takes that land later in the period.