Imperator Development Diary #4 - 18th of June 2018

[Johan]

Hello everyone, and welcome to the fourth development diary for Imperator!

This time we’ll take a look at the different types of units an army can have in the game.

Archers
These units can assault, prefer to fight from the second row, and can be built by anyone. They are good versus infantry, but weaker versus cavalry. They are cheap and fast to build.

Camels
These units prefer to fight on flanks, and require the camel trade-goods to be built. They are quick to build, and move quickly. Strong versus lightly armored types.

Cavalry
These units prefer to fight on flanks, and require the horse trade-goods to be built. They are more expensive to build, and move quickly. Countered by heavy infantry and warelephants, but very good against everything else.

Chariots
These units can be built if you have the celtic or mauryan traditions. They are rather cheap to build. They are very good against light infantry, but weaker against other units.

Heavy Infantry
These units can assault, and require the iron trade-goods to be built. They are not cheap, but are really good against cavalry, light infantry and chariots.

Horse Archers
These units prefer to fight from the second row, and require the steppe horse trade-goods to be built. They cost similarly to cavalry, and are deadly to slower moving units.

Light Cavalry
These units prefer to fight on flanks, and require the horse trade-goods to be built. They are not very expensive to build, and move very quickly. Weak against most units, but strong against archers and light infantry.

Light Infantry
These units can assault, and can be built by everyone. They are are cheap and quick to build, but weak against every other type of unit.

Warelephants
This unit requires the elephant trade-goods be built. They are very expensive to build, but are very good against units that can not quickly run away.





One interesting thing for modders is that you can add and make as many unit-types as you’d like, and they are all written like this.

archers = {
    army = yes
    assault = yes
    is_second_rank = yes
    
    
    enable = yes

    maneuver = 1
    movement_speed = 2
    build_cost = 2
    build_time = 45
    

    light_infantry = 2.0
    heavy_infantry = 1.25
    cavalry = 0.75
    warelephant = 1.0
    horse_archers = 1.0
    archers = 1.0
}

Next week we’ll talk about pops for a bit!

 

[DanubianCossak]

Love the elephants! Army diversity! :faints:

 

[MrNewVegas]

In what sense is heavy infantry good against cavalry? I know you need to abstract anti-cavalry tactics away somehow, but surely cavalry performs very well against everything that isn't pikes? Also, are horse archers good against all infantry types? This is not mentioned, but isn't that like the whole point of using horse archers, that they can't be engaged by infantry unless they want to be engaged?

 

[Reezy]

I don't really understand how Chariots are going to be useful. If LI is weak to everything, why build a unit that is only extra powerful against LI?

 

[DanubianCossak]

In what sense is heavy infantry good against cavalry? I know you need to abstract anti-cavalry tactics away somehow, but surely cavalry performs very well against everything that isn't pikes? Also, are horse archers good against all infantry types? This is not mentioned, but isn't that like the whole point of using horse archers, that they can't be engaged by infantry unless they want to be engaged?

Unless we are talking about medieval heavy cavalry with lances and stuff, cavalry is not that great vs massed heavy infantry. It doesnt have enough shock to break the formation, and if it fails at that, every horseman is then jumped by multiple people and pulled off the horse.

 

[Ipsissimus]

I love early dev diaries!

 

[Kliwarrior]

How many rows are currently planned for armies? Two, like EU4 ?

 

[MrNewVegas]

I don't really understand how Chariots are going to be useful. If LI is weak to everything, why build a unit that is only extra powerful against LI?

Make everything that isn't light infantry prohibitively expensive, that's my guess. You need to make light-infantry useful as a gap-filler and have a core of heavy infantry, that are to be used only if your archer + light infantry stack doesn't wipe them down. I would think you should only include light infantry because if you don't your heavy infantry has to do all the work, which is very bad for long-campaigns. Hastati are the light infantry, and then Princeps + Triarii are the heavier infantry.

It goes like this:
Include LI because you don't want your HI to get mown down by their anti-HI units
Include HI so your LI doesn't get destroyed by cavalry and chariots
Include C to counter their LI and A
etc. etc.
Now I'm not saying you won't just be able to bankroll the HI spam after 40 years, but they can't NOT include LI, it would be dumb.

 

[Vonboe]

Hello everyone, and welcome to the fourth development diary for Imperator!

This time we’ll take a look at the different types of units an army can have in the game.


View attachment 381027 Archers
These units can assault, prefer to fight from the second row, and can be built by anyone. They are good versus infantry, but weaker versus cavalry. They are cheap and fast to build.


View attachment 381028 Camels
These units prefer to fight on flanks, and require the camel trade-goods to be built. They are quick to build, and move quickly. Strong versus lightly armored types.


View attachment 381029 Cavalry
These units prefer to fight on flanks, and require the horse trade-goods to be built. They are more expensive to build, and move quickly. Countered by heavy infantry and warelephants, but very good against everything else.


View attachment 381030 Chariots
These units can be built if you have the celtic or mauryan traditions. They are rather cheap to build. They are very good against light infantry, but weaker against other units.


View attachment 381031 Heavy Infantry
These units can assault, and require the iron trade-goods to be built. They are not cheap, but are really good against cavalry, light infantry and chariots.


View attachment 381032 Horse Archers
These units prefer to fight from the second row, and require the steppe horse trade-goods to be built. They cost similarly to cavalry, and are deadly to slower moving units.


View attachment 381033 Light Cavalry
These units prefer to fight on flanks, and require the horse trade-goods to be built. They are not very expensive to build, and move very quickly. Weak against most units, but strong against archers and light infantry.


View attachment 381034 Light Infantry
These units can assault, and can be built by everyone. They are are cheap and quick to build, but weak against every other type of unit.


View attachment 381035 Warelephants
This unit requires the elephant trade-goods be built. They are very expensive to build, but are very good against units that can not quickly run away.


Next week we’ll talk about pops for a bit!

Hi @Johan

Hey many units models will there be?
Only infantry and cavalry like in prior games? or maybe unique models for each unit type?

 

[Johan]

I don't really understand how Chariots are going to be useful. If LI is weak to everything, why build a unit that is only extra powerful against LI?

Because you don't can't afford more expensive units, and/or do not have access to goods to build better.

 

[Jako473]

Make everything that isn't light infantry prohibitively expensive, that's my guess. You need to make light-infantry useful as a gap-filler and have a core of heavy infantry, that are to be used only if your archer + light infantry stack doesn't wipe them down. I would think you should only include light infantry because if you don't your heavy infantry has to do all the work, which is very bad for long-campaigns. Hastati are the light infantry, and then Princeps + Triarii are the heavier infantry.

It goes like this:
Include LI because you don't want your HI to get mown down by their anti-HI units
Include HI so your LI doesn't get destroyed by cavalry and chariots
Include C to counter their LI and A
etc. etc.
Now I'm not saying you won't just be able to bankroll the HI spam after 40 years, but they can't NOT include LI, it would be dumb.

He was asking why Chariots are there, not why Light Infantry is there (and you won't be able to spam HI anyways since an obvious strategy is to choke your enemy out of their Iron trade/resources), Chariots are remarked as being 'very' good against light infantry. How good that is, is up to debate, but I will assume it is better then cavalry. It'll mostly be used in the far east, and north, where they are permitted, because those armies will primarily function off of Light Infantry.

 

[nzranga]

I don't really understand how Chariots are going to be useful. If LI is weak to everything, why build a unit that is only extra powerful against LI?

If light infantry are cheap and available as the base unit for everyone then most early nations armies will be mainly light infantry.

Therefore during that early period chariots will be a cheap way to stomp those underdeveloped nations as they will be cheaper to use than the other units that can easily beat light infantry.

 

[Kliwarrior]

Make everything that isn't light infantry prohibitively expensive, that's my guess.

"Manouver" wasn't in EU:R , it's a quite interesting concept. @Johan is it correct to think that the basic "manouver" of HI is quite lower than LI ?

 

[MrNewVegas]

He was asking why Chariots are there, not why Light Infantry is there (and you won't be able to spam HI anyways since an obvious strategy is to choke your enemy out of their Iron trade/resources), Chariots are remarked as being 'very' good against light infantry. How good that is, is up to debate, but I will assume it is better then cavalry. It'll mostly be used in the far east, and north, where they are permitted, because those armies will primarily function off of Light Infantry.

Yes, you are correct, but I was drawing attention to why you might want to use Chariots - if LI is ubiquitous then Chariots become very good.

 

[Gamer_1745]

Will combat be something like HOI IV?

 

[Sanny]

In what sense is heavy infantry good against cavalry? I know you need to abstract anti-cavalry tactics away somehow, but surely cavalry performs very well against everything that isn't pikes? Also, are horse archers good against all infantry types? This is not mentioned, but isn't that like the whole point of using horse archers, that they can't be engaged by infantry unless they want to be engaged?

I'm not sure for other nations but I know that Roman heavy infantry countered cavalry attacks by forming a shield wall similar to Testudo (sometimes in squares), tightly packed that any cavalry charge would be knocked back by large shields and sharp shortswords called gladius sticking out of a formation like thorns ready to be thrusted at horses, especially since Auxilia were often kept as a rear guard behind the citizen legions and stationed on flanks in battle usually armed with shield and spears, and the ranks often consisted of archers too. Even if Cavalry punched through a legionary formation, the Auxilia would drive them back with spears and plug the hole. Roman Legionaries also tend to carry pilums which are like javelins when thrown can unseat anyone from their horse or capable of bringing horses down mid-charge.

 

[Scyth33]

No Skirmisher unit type? Archers seem kinda off when slingers or javelins were much more common during that time period.

Rome didn't even field archers until the late republic-Principate and even then only as auxiliaries.

 

[Grand Historian]

Well worth staying up till two in the morning to wait for. I'm very glad to hear that not only will combat have more variety but unit types won't be hardcoded.

 

[Jako473]

Well worth staying up till two in the morning to wait for. I'm very glad to hear that not only will combat have more variety but unit types won't be hardcoded.

This is definitely useful especially for those people who want a Skirmisher type and such, I know I will add that to my game at least.

 

[FFFanboy7]

No Skirmisher unit type? Archers seem kinda off when slingers or javelins were much more common during that time period.

Rome didn't even field archers until the late republic-Principate and even then only as auxiliaries.

This. It's like they grabbed EU4's combat system and just changed Cannons for Archers.