Imperator - Development Diary - 20th of May 2019

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Warthull

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This. And would actually make it mire fun. You have pops mechanic, use them for christ sake, dont make it all just about modifiers. That is just boring. If we wanted EU4 all over again we wouldnt have bought I:R. As of now there is not a single migration mechanic. That is the perfect chance to introduce one.

I couldnt agree more.

After last week's exciting dev diary, some of the parts in today's diary still seem like a step in the wrong direction (for me at least), notably province improvement.
Its more of the "wait for points and then spend them for modifiers" system thats been subject to some complaints.
Also, the 2 year waiting period doesnt really make it feel much less like the standard "press button and get (now slightly delayed) instant modifier reward".

The base mechanics of the game (e.g. pops) should allow for a lot more dynamic and continuously evolving empires, using more interconnected systems/mechanics (migration would be one).
As it stands it feels like big missed opportunity.
 

Testeria

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The only mana I ever use on conquest is Scroll for claims.
These changes, as others have already said, do extremely little to make playing tall more interesting at all.
I don't want more arbitrary, overpriced, irrelevant and boring mana buttons for my tall gameplay, I want more actual things to do.

I'm not arguing this is good or bad, just pointing out devs reasoning.
 

Ragnarrr

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Can you remove the civic power cost for setting up trade routes? It's already limited so adding a power cost seems kind of pointless. If you don't want people to constantly switch capital bonuses then just add a timer until it can be changed or even a big negative opinion modifier with whoever you're trading with.
 

mak-k

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I don't understand the pop system at all. If we proceed from the game mechanics and the numbers of the time 1 pop = 1000 population. Here it is something abstract. When open data provinces wonder - because at that time Rome was a city with a population of 400-450 residents, Carthage 500-750к, damask 1000-1200к. There Alexandria . And in the game pop is not tied to any history or common sense. By the way, when Hannibal went to Rome, he had an army of 59,000 men with him, and that was the limit. And we run 100 000 army of homeless
 

Nicolas-

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Modding wise, the issue with this is that provinces/states do not support variables.

This change kinda blocks something in a mod I've been working on (that creates variables on a city level that take into account tax and commerce), any chance you make states/provinces support variables as well since they are now more important than cities?
 
Last edited:

TolHydra

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YAY! I can click buttons! -Said no one ever.

Capture.PNG


Remember when Creative Assembly made games solely about war, (total war after all) and we got our "fix" from you guys?

And It's tragic how the roles are reversed now, especially as time goes on. I was so disappointed with their Rome II that I stopped giving them any attention for a while. Years later, much to my own surprise, it appears that they have learnt from your games, expanding the depth with each title, adding multiple ways to make your country successful (Especially in the upcoming one if gameplays on youtube are anything to go by). While as time goes on yours are basically regressing into their old campaigns with few extra buttons. And their old campaigns were basically drawn out excuses to have goofy battles with flaming pigs. Not pure map painters which don't even have battles, like EU4 and I:R.

Even Civilization is taking a few cues in map modes with their lenses while you've not only forsaken any ideals to make strategy games any grand-er; Being active examples to other industry giants like Firaxis, You're not even trying to meet your previous goals to make a halfway convincing game like CK2 1.0 or EU3. 3!

And going forward, unless you convince them down to your level and they center Civilization 7 (or the next next mainline TW) around lazy, arbitrary, nonsensical points; I don't see you leading anyone anywhere anytime soon.
 
Last edited:

Limbojack

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We have done some changes to trade that may not seem that impactful to you at a glance, but gives us more tools in making the game deeper and more flavorful.

These changes don't seem to add any meaningful amount of flavor. If it makes it easier for you to improve the trade system later that's a good thing, but I was kind of expecting us to see such an improvement in patch 1.1 already.

Improving your Provinces
Now he have added 4 new province level abilities, that each cost 400 power of its given type, and starts a process that 2 years later will give you a permanent bonus to that province.

Please reconsider the power costs of these improvements before releasing the patch, because they are way too weak considering the price. I mean, 400 martial powers for a small bonus to output and loyalty simply isn't worth it even if playing tall.

Coordinate Urban Development - Pay 100 Civic Power to start a process that at the end of 2 years time, you will get +1 local civilization in that city until the end of the game. This can be repeated as much as you want, but you can’t do it more than once in a city at the same time.

This is even worse than the provincial bonuses. Paying as much civic power for +1 local civilization to a single city as for an country wide invention is a terrible trade off. For the same cost we'd be able to move 25 slave pops, so please take a second look on this aswell.

One problem we identified was the lack of options at times when playing tall, and that you had too much resources that you had no use for when you were not busy conquering.

The main problem with this DD is that while you've given us plenty of cost-inefficient things to spend our mana on, you haven't given us anything to do other than the clicking of buttons. Based on what you've just told us, playing tall in 1.1 will be pretty much the same as playing tall in 1.0.3, just width a few extra buildings and trade routes.

Playing tall in I:R is pretty much limited to trade and technology, and unfortunately patch 1.1 don't seem to improve much on that front. Maybe you should add laws that change our type of government so that both monarchies and republics can choose to go tall. Let's say the government type "maritime republic" for republics and something similar for kingdoms that actually change the rules for the game for nations of that spesific government type. Maybe they should have a limit of possible owned cities or provinces before they take a penalty hit to corruption in addition to taxes, commerce, loyalty and unrest - meaning that we would have to play around with diplomacy, vassals and trade. Maybe you should even give these government types unique casus bellis allowing them to vassalize bigger nations, and changing it so that they can demand mana, trade goods without take a trade route and commerce efficiency from their vassals.
 

Sakkura

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Can you remove the civic power cost for setting up trade routes? It's already limited so adding a power cost seems kind of pointless. If you don't want people to constantly switch capital bonuses then just add a timer until it can be changed or even a big negative opinion modifier with whoever you're trading with.

I dunno about removing it entirely, but at least a reduction in the cost would be nice. A civic power cost does help limit what you can do if you're expanding a lot, giving tall playstyles a little advantage (which is certainly in order).

Bear in mind expansionists are getting some more civic power because they no longer have to spend a ton of it moving slaves out of a starving capital.

I don't understand the pop system at all. If we proceed from the game mechanics and the numbers of the time 1 pop = 1000 population. Here it is something abstract. When open data provinces wonder - because at that time Rome was a city with a population of 400-450 residents, Carthage 500-750к, damask 1000-1200к. There Alexandria . And in the game pop is not tied to any history or common sense. By the way, when Hannibal went to Rome, he had an army of 59,000 men with him, and that was the limit. And we run 100 000 army of homeless

1 pop equals 1000 troops, but not necessarily population. Imagine if 10% of the population is capable of front line combat, then that would be 10K population and 1K troops. The numbers get a little more reasonable that way, but of course it's still abstract to some extent. Imperator will never be a fully realistic simulation.
 

mak-k

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No, we are talking about the population. In those days in different armies of the countries there were different percentages of employment of the population. The usual number is 5 percent but this is the usual in today's world. During its heyday Rome reached 600 000 army but it was a General mobilization. During the time of the Roman legions is 3,500 (600 cavalry), 400к to residents could not put so many of the military responsibilities of citizens (given that the army took not all)
 

Mulway

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Again wait for mana to fill then spend and get shiny modifiers. Also probably nobody uses them or even if people use they won't make any real difference. Like you already roflstomp everyone at some point. Win more buttons everywhere.
 

Coldrefreader of Bulgaria

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IMO one of the issues with tall is that the only way to advance through "nation rankings" is by the amount of cities you own - there's no population, technology, culture, religion, trade or military significance of any kind whatsoever.
I would like to see this reflect nations' influence in a better way.
 

cristofolmc

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The dev team so many years after the release of EU4 still hasnt understood that any mechanic that depends on a resource you dont obtain from any strategic choice, but from just sheer luck based on the random stats of a random character is just not fun. It cannot be fun, since it doesnt involve any organic long term strategy so you can decide what kind of country you want to shape and follow through adapting that strategy. No, you just wait for a good character with good stats, wait for mana to pile up, click a button and two years later you'll have a bonus. Always a bonus, just a number (when they have a pop mechanic. It seems like a sin to me). Does this allow to make more money while staying small? Yes. Does this make it fun and make you want to stay small instead of go blobbing? No, not at all. 1.1 its just the same as 1.0.3. Waiting for pops to grow and mana to pile up (mind you, there are cool mechanics like pilling up growth bonuses and raiding that make playing tall slightly fun. But instead of going deeper on that, they decide to go down the EU4 path of stacking mana to click a bonus to get a modifier. Not fun at all). So I dont see, on this side of the game, people coming back to I:R when they can stick to EU4 which is pretty much the same.


All of this is funny because other dev teams in the company have come up with cool pop and tall mechanics. Not only dev teams like Stellaris, but also mods like Meiou and Taxes.
But instead of following the successful path, they make the same mistakes as EU4. That way and based on player numbers, people seem to prefer the original and stick to EU4. Its your company and your game, but...*shrug*.

Lets hope the character side of the game gets much more better than this because as of now tall play remains the same. Youll just be able to make more money. Which isnt fun per se if you dont have anything to do with it.
 

Jack Churchill

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Ugh...... Province growth shouldn't come from expending points. I'd personally prefer CK 2's system where things grew (somewhat) dynamically.

Prosperity isn't a perfect system, but it's just so much more enjoyable to see my carefully protected counties grow more productive than to use Paris or London as a mana sink.
 

Jack Churchill

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The dev team so many years after the release of EU4 still hasnt understand that any mechanic that depends on a resource you dont obtain from any strategic choice, but from just sheer luck based on the random stats of a random character is just not fun. It cannot be fun, since it doesnt involve any organic long term strategy so you can decide what kind of country you want to shape and follow through adapting that strategy. No, you just wait for a good character with good stats, wait for mana to pile up, click a button and two years later you'll have a bonus. Always a bonus, just a number (when they have a pop mechanic. It seems like a sin to me). Does this allow to make more money while staying small? Yes. Does this make it fun and make you want to stay small instead of go blobbing? No, not at all. 1.1 its just the same as 1.0.3. Waiting for pops to grow and mana to pile up (mind you, there are cool mechanics like pilling up growth bonuses and raiding that make playing tall slightly fun. But instead of going deeper on that, they decide to go down the EU4 path of stacking mana to click a bonus to get a modifier. Not fun at all). So I dont see, on this side of the game, people coming back to I:R when they can stick to EU4 which is pretty much the same.


All of this is funny because other dev teams in the company have come up with cool pop and tall mechanics. Not only dev teams like Stellaris, but also mods like Meiou and Taxes.
But instead of following the successful path, they make the same mistakes as EU4. That way and based on player numbers, people seem to prefer the original and stick to EU4. Its your company and your game, but...*shrug*.

Lets hope the character side of the game gets much more better than this because as of now tall play remains the same. Youll just be able to make more money. Which isnt fun per se if you dont have anything to do with it.
Stellaris has it's own pop issues (infuriating growth mechanics) so I'm not sure I'd use them as an entirely positive example.
 

EDL_

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Though i do like some of the changes, overall direction of others makes me not the happy.
I was hoping for new mechanics, but all i can see is "press the button to spend mana and get some modifier".
 

mak-k

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Me in game it is shocking the, that even hiring ships not requires people (for examples in the war with Persia Athens could field about 12,000 overland army and about 30 100,000 - 36,000 fleet) . Then the ships from the air. In addition, there is a simple accounting employed cohorts (because it is clear that army recruitment require maintenance ) So there is no point accumulation of armies and game ancient time turn into a Zerg rush