Are you being deliberately obtuse for a specific reason? Do you have a point or are you just arguing for the sake of it?
Imperator - Development Diary - 1st of July 2019
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But this is exactly the point.
Because there ARE people who refer to all currencies as mana.
There are also people how think it applies to abstract currencies. (so prestige is mana, gold is not).
There are people how think it only applies to instant-spend currency.
All mana is on this forum, is a shorthand to mean " the things I personally dislike about PDS currency implementation". Everyone has a different personal dislike, to it make all the conversations completely hopeless.
You give a prime example in your own post, where you talk about the "horrendous mana mechanic". You may feel this explains things. It does not. I'm guessing you dislike as aspect of monarch points? But what aspect? I've no idea.
If you want to convince people of your point, you'd be much better advise to clearly state that point, using actual game terms and actual descriptions of your issues with them.
And they are wrong. Mana has a specific definition and only certain currencies qualify as mana. Attempts at pro-mana people to expand the definition to include things that aren't mana, like gold, prestige etc, are merely attempts to derail the conversation and ridicule peoples misgivings about the mechanics. These people know exactly what mana is, they are merely trolling.
I can assure you that just because you have a definition for a fuzzy idea, not everyone shares it.
Personally, I think there were numerous problems with the implementation of currency and monarch points.
I want people to meaningfully share their views to make the game better.
Using the term mana stops people sharing their views effectively... and stop meaningful conversations.
To take a previous example... "remove mana" is about as effective as "build the wall"
"Build the wall" stops meaningful debate as people revert to shouting empty slogans. It does nothing to advance a conversation about migration policy.
LIkewise, "mana" stops people talking about what they actually like or dislike about game mechanics.
Oh yeah.
There will be a difference in what fractions a society wants its pops to be. Don't expect tribes to get 33% citizens
Does this mean that, for example, Rome can adopt anti-manumission laws to maintain a large slave population?
I'd rather if there was no % of static pop balance and it was more organic. But since we are not getting that, it would be hella cool if we at least got laws to change the % of pops they will gravitate to. So in case of Rome we could keep it at 45% slaves, 25 freemen and 30 citizens. And as a greek republic, you could keep it at 20 slaves, 30 freemen, and 50 citizens and stuff like that depending on the laws or government types. But I'd rather if it was laws to be more flexible and sandbox.
It doesn't have any specific meanings. It's broad term, and means different things for everybody. Prestige IS mana tho. You said yourself that mana is obscure currency, well, prestige is just that. In game, the currency you've been referring to is called Monarch Power, you would've avoided this arguing if you had made your point using actual terms instead of vague definitions like "mana". mana is a meme, not actual term. It's same as people who say "thing":
-Get me that thing.
-What "thing"?
-The thing, you know.
There's also "pope mana", "gov mana" etc. Not all of what people call "mana" is a bad mechanic. And cuz there is NO such thing as mana in game, people understand it how they want to.
Person who's trying to mislead anything are people like you. Let's be honest, you here jsut to hate on something, not to give actual opinion. If you wanted that, you'd give your point right away, in meaningful terminology.
Will war affect in any way how the pops migrate and assimilate? It would be great to have pops migrate away from war zones. Also shouldn't there be a option for pops to migrate to other countries for example via trade routs or major ports?
Lol, thank you for showing me that you don't know what mana is
You are the biggest facepalm ever. You take broad term and try to prove something. Literally, mana means anything, cuz it has no official meaning.
Jargon page on EUwiki
Good to know. I'm waiting for this update to give it a try again, i really hope it gets better. Thanks for listening the fans.
Nice update on the way, thanks for the improvment. I am wondering, are you gonna touch the navie in that update or not at all ? (i know its a lot to ask for an update, could be later anyway but i was only wondering)
Seems the enemies have dificulties to bring troops on other island when they start a war (as example, i am Iceni and the Pict declared war on me for many years already and they never came on my island to attack and i saw their fleet is double size mine)
Thanks and continue your good work
Seems the enemies have dificulties to bring troops on other island when they start a war (as example, i am Iceni and the Pict declared war on me for many years already and they never came on my island to attack and i saw their fleet is double size mine)
Thanks and continue your good work
If you want to keep being wrong, then by all means feel free. That isn't anything to do with me. Prestige and Piety and Legitimacy are not mana. It's a shame that whoever edited the wiki is as clueless as you.You are the biggest facepalm ever. You take broad term and try to prove something. Literally, mana means anything, cuz it has no official meaning.
Jargon page on EUwiki
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I think you should step back a bit and reread what people are trying to say.
Nobody said that your definition of mana is wrong (and actually, I fully agree with yours).
What they are saying is that this definition differs from people to people, and the wiki example is a good proof.
Because you have a clear definition of what is mana and what isn't doesn't mean that everybody shares it, or even has one.
Now frankly if would be nice we could just stop with this nonsense about what is mana, what isn't or what is the correct definition.
This thread is about pop migration, not mana.
By the way the last mana thread was locked yesterday, it would be a pity if this thread ended the same.
I'm totally fine with dropping it, I'm just not in the habit of rolling over when someone accuses me of misleading people.
Cuz you ARE misleading. I'm not even talking about mana, but people like you. The word has no real definition. It's only oftenly used word in a community. And everybody uses it how they want. If YOU made up definition for yourself doesn't mean that it actually means something. I think if you wanna prove some point you should use widely accepted terms, and not the ones you established for yourself.
The reason you didnt see anyone calling prestige or legitimacy mana before MANA came up is because...they are not mana! The fact that mana doesnt have a scientific definition in the oxford dictionary doesnt mean it wasnt very clear what was meant by mana when the term first came up. And it first came up to refer to monarch points.And it was always used as that until the devs starting applying the term to all in game currencies to mislead people and make them in favour of the hated by everyone concept of mana.
And no, presitge is not mana as @Lambert2191 said . Its a currency. Just like in an RPG health is not mana, is health, and money is not mana, is momeny (both are currencies), and only MANA is mana, here the same applies. The term mana wasnt minted by the community to refer to currencies. The term was minted to refer to the monarch point system when it was released and the big debate begun.
The fact that people have broaden the term to defend it and mislead people doesnt mean they are using the term correctly. And no, the fact that the definition is not in science books doesn't mean you can start calling your cereals "mana".
And Johan, who was the one who started calling currencies mana to defend his obnoxious mechanic, has recently admited that currencies and mana are not the same. Of course he didnt use the term mana, he used tecnical terms, but same thing.
Mana most commonly used to refer to monarch points as shown by the wiki as it has the monarch points listed first and is often used to refer to monarch points in other places as well, rather than other things. As I have said before if monarch points did not exist in the past we would likely not be posting the word mana to such a great quantity.
However it has no clear definition except that it refers to magic right now, you could easily apply it to progress bars as they can at times be over simplified and therefore "mana" and still technically gaining points.
Im not sure about the others though. For some of them it might make sense for there to be little "physical" "In world" ways to increase them others obviously not, for instance is stability a type of mana? Or does it being caped and unable to be "spent" prevent this? But legitimacy and republican tradition are capped and can't easily be spent.
Prestige and piety in CK2 are not a type of mana in accordance with the list as you can almost go on increasing the rate of gain indefinitely. Like gold.
The pattern seems to be, I think, about whether the rate of gain can be increase or not to a almost indefinite amount, unless if its capped and can't be "spent" then it is not mana.
But then why is republican tradition/legitimacy there? (especially without stability)
(Personally I liked papal influence...)
However it has no clear definition except that it refers to magic right now, you could easily apply it to progress bars as they can at times be over simplified and therefore "mana" and still technically gaining points.
Im not sure about the others though. For some of them it might make sense for there to be little "physical" "In world" ways to increase them others obviously not, for instance is stability a type of mana? Or does it being caped and unable to be "spent" prevent this? But legitimacy and republican tradition are capped and can't easily be spent.
Prestige and piety in CK2 are not a type of mana in accordance with the list as you can almost go on increasing the rate of gain indefinitely. Like gold.
The pattern seems to be, I think, about whether the rate of gain can be increase or not to a almost indefinite amount, unless if its capped and can't be "spent" then it is not mana.
But then why is republican tradition/legitimacy there? (especially without stability)
(Personally I liked papal influence...)
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