Imperator - Development Diary - 1st of April 2019

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Barbarbarbarbar.
 
I like the Barbarian system.

It's a bit weird to see a lot of modern Turkic and Chinese geographycal names on the map of Central Asia, but I understand that it's hard to find historically correct names for this period, so it's OK.

Toktogul Reservoir did not exist untill the 20th century.

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The distribution of regions on the Pamirs looks unrealistics, because it completely ignores local terrain. There are mountain passes and valleys along them. Those valleys are separated from other valleys by high impassable mountain ridges. For instance, this feature of local terrain was one of the reasons why there is so many different languages on the Pamirs.

I suggest to change the borders of regions so that they would better represent the geography of the Pamirs - see the picture below.

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I'm not sure what Miena is, and if it's really necessary in the game; most likely, it shouldn't be connected to Toquzbolaq (whatever it is).

Tashqurgan seems to be located more to the east, on the pass leading south from Kashgar to Kashmir.
 
There ought to be something in game referencing Sid Meier's Civilization somewhere in there, it's too good to pass up. That series is too known for the frustrations of barbarians to just pass this by. Achievement? Raging Barbarians option? Event where they capture a pop, with the text referring to the pop as a settler?
 
When I saw the word "Slavs", I admit I got very excited. But then I remembered that it's just a pipe dream to create an early Slavic empire.
 
Hi!
In today's Developer Diary for Imperator Rome we will be talking about Barbarians, what they represent in the game and how you can interact with them. We will also go over the regions on the far side of the Himalayas, the Tarim Basin and Tibet.

"Barbarians"

Throughout antiquity there are many marginalized peoples living "off the edges" of our map, and in the isolated and hard to tame regions of the world. Bedouins in the deserts of Arabia, Slavs or Sarmatians in eastern Europe, etc. Barbarians represent them and the threat they posed to nearby civilized neighbors. They will continue to pose a threat to pops long after a region has been conquered until they have been civilized through the influence of nearby settlements.

Barbarian Strongholds
View attachment 467884
Around the map, in impassable, uncolonizable locations, there are local modifiers called Barbarian strongholds. In this location Barbarian power will build up over time until a Horde spawns.

Since Barbarian strongholds are in impassable locations they cannot be directly interacted with, however the governor policy for Civilization Effort in an adjacent province can increase the civilization level in the stronghold's location, and eventually downgrade, and then remove the stronghold.

Barbarian Power
View attachment 467883
How strong barbarian presence exists in a location. The higher Barbarian power the more likely it is that a horde will spawn there. Higher Barbarian Power also results in bigger Hordes when an army is formed.

Barbarian power is influenced by Barbarian Growth.

Barbarian Growth
View attachment 467882
This is how quickly Barbarian Power Grows in a location. The primary source of this modifier is from Barbarian Strongholds, in impassable, uninhabitable, land.

Civilization value reduces barbarian growth wherever it is present, therefore barbarian power growth is going to slow down and then regress once an adjacent province has increased its civilization rating enough.

Current barbarian power, Civilization and Barbarian Power growth rate can be seen either in a mapmode for Barbarians or in the locations themselves, in their location interface.

Barbarian Hordes
View attachment 467881
Once Barbarian power has built up sufficiently a horde will spawn. The size of this army will depend on how high Barbarian power was in the location in which it spawned. All armies that spawn from the same location will be considered part of the same Horde.

The Horde will move into settled territory and begin occupying cities. Every city that falls will have its local Civilization Level reduced by the horde.

If a Horde is defeated by an army the leading general will get money and the units in the Barbarian army will be distributed in the winning country as Slaves.

Barbarian Diplomacy:
View attachment 467879
A horde that controls at least one city can be negotiated with. This means that you can open diplomacy with it just like you would any other country, though the options you have when interacting with them are slightly different from those with other countries.
  • Settle: Offer the Barbarians to settle the land they currently occupy, they will join the city as Tribesmen of the culture and religion of their location they spawned in.
  • Create Client: Offer the barbarians to form a new Tributary State with the land they currently hold in the country. The new country will be a tribal chiefdom of the same culture and religion as the location the barbarian horde spawned in.
  • Demand Surrender: Demand that the Barbarian Army is dissolved and all land returned. The Barbarian army will provide slaves and money as if it had been defeated in a battle.
  • Pay Off: Offer money to have the Barbarian armies leave your lands and seek targets for pillaging elsewhere.
View attachment 467880
(A Barbarian Tributary has been created)​

High above the plains of Northern India and the great Maurya empire lies the Tibetan plateau. Then as well as now large parts of this region, especially the Changthang highland, was largely unsettled. But in the south there were a number of thriving societies, most prominently the dominant Zhangzhung kingdom which would remain the most influential state of Tibet for many centuries yet. Buddhism is still a young religion by the time our game starts and had still not spread to large numbers beyond India. The tibetan state in the game instead practice the Bon religion, which here represents the pre-buddhist Tibetan faith.

Tibet is also another region where I have to add a bit of a disclaimer. While we can be certain that this region was both populated and influential there is not a lot to go on when it comes to the details. Therefore what we have is extrapolated from later information to a large degree.


Starting Countries:
View attachment 467869
  • Zhangzhung: Tribal Regional Power in the western Tibetan Plateau. Controls Mountain passes into India, Kashmir, Pamir and the Tarim Basin. Said to be the birthplace of Tibetan religion.
  • Tsang: Tribal state in Central Tibet controlling the central Brahmaputra valley. Also controls a number of mountain passes into India and directly borders the more powerful Zhangszhung kingdom.
  • Sumpa: Settled Tribe in western Tibet controlling the westernmost pass into India, in western Kamarupa.
  • Yarlung: Small tribal state in the Yarlung valley in western Tibet. Controls one of the mountain passes towards India and thereby directly borders the Maurya Empire, and Kamarupa.
Tarim Basin & Sogdia:
View attachment 467868
While we quickly touched on Sogdia, and the Ferghana valley in the Diary about Bactria, we now return here to look at the independent factions in this region. The center of Sogdia around Marakanda, later Samarkand, is in the hands of the Bactrian Greek Kingdom there are also independent states here. The Tarim Basin, with the harsh Taklamakan desert at its center, as well as Sogdia to its west would in time become important as an important transition point between China and the West. This region is central to what would become known as the Silk Road. While such trade surely existed to some degree already when our game starts it would not grow to be an important factor until later in time.


Starting Countries:
View attachment 467867
  • Sogdia: Not all parts of Sogdia is controlled by the Graeco-Bactrian kingdom. This Autocratic Monarchy represents the local Sogdian and Tocharian people and at start its control does not extend further than the mountains around the Ferghana valley itself.
  • Wusun: Tribal state to the North of Sogdia, one of the first regions to be invaded by the Yuezhi when they arrived on the scene.
  • Tayuan: Kingdom in the eastern Ferghana valley representing the parts of the valley that are not under Graeco-Bactrian control. Tayuan controls the route between Sogdia, the western parts of Central Asia, and the Tarim basin, a crossroad that would in the future prosper especially as part of the Silk Road.
  • Phrynia: Mountain kingdom controlling large parts of the Pamir Mountains, a region so high up that it has been referred to as the ‘Roof of the World’. This is yet another route through which Tibet and the Tarim Basin can be accessed from the Bactrian lowlands.
  • Shule: Small trade kingdom in the western part of the Tarim Basin, centered around the city of Kashgar. Like the Tayuan state they occupy a position that would eventually be instrumental in the formation of more frequent trade connections between China and the west.
  • Kucha: Kothanese kingdom in the northern part of the Tarim Basin, based around the city of Kucha.
  • Pishan: Small tribal state in the Southern Tarim basin. Controls one of the passes into the Zhanzhung kingdom.
  • Khotan: Larger kingdom in the Southern Tarim Basin, would in time become famous through its adoption of Buddhism and grow to control a much larger part of this region. By 304 BCE however this kingdom has still not adopted the faith for which it would eventually become known, and it is also not yet the regional power it would become.
  • Loulan: Most distant of all the Tarim kingdoms is the small state of Loulan. Most of what is known about this kingdom is from Chinese sources and in time they would also become a Chinese subject state historically.
Does every impassible province have a barbarian stronghold, or just a few?
If just a few what's the ratio you're aiming for? Or does it vary from location to location?
 
The barbarian system looks interesting. Strategy games with arbitrary map borders always have problems with the edges of the game board being unrealistically beneficial. For example, in Total War Rome 2 nations like "Garamantia" usually overrun major powers like Carthage simply because minors have their flanks secured while Carthage has enemies on all sides. Barbarians spawning in could defray this issue. However, this mechanic also has the possibility of being extremely annoying if it's unbalanced. If the barbarians are too frequent or too resilient, the system could turn into an irritating micro-intensive whack-a-mole.

On a different note, talking about Tibet reminded me of a concern I have relating to Maurya. Imperator is clearly a game about blobbing where bigger = better. Given Paradox's history of being unable to restrain large nations with internal mechanics, what's going to stop an AI Maurya blobbing from Bangladesh to Baghdad in every game? What's going to stop Maurya from being like Ming in the release version of EU4, the Ottomans in the current version of EU4, the Byzantines in the release of CK2, or the Abbasids after CK2's SoI DLC? The footage I've seen from the dev clash doesn't inspire confidence in this regard, with Maurya being an invincible hyperstable superblob 95% of the time, and simply tanking through any megarevolts without collapsing. In my opinion India shouldn't have even been included in the Imperator map at least on release. India was very much its own ecosystem during this timeframe, with only a small amount of political interaction with the wider Mediterranean world from Alexander's conquests. Maurya would have been an excellent candidate for a mechanic similar to CK2's China system, which could allow a player to "conquer" or interact with an offmap India without disrupting the game's balance by including Maurya as a full nation.
 
Barbarians look cool. Will they be more inclined to go after the bigger nations since they likely have more stuff to take. Or will they take what they can get.
And can barbarian-strongholds return if the civilizing presence retracts in the face of disaster?
 
Barbarians look cool. Will they be more inclined to go after the bigger nations since they likely have more stuff to take. Or will they take what they can get.
And can barbarian-strongholds return if the civilizing presence retracts in the face of disaster?
Hopefully it is a case of "if civilization gets high enough, the barbarian stronghold goes away, if civilization gets low enough, a new stronghold is formed", with the limits being something like 40 to remove a stronghold and 10 to create one.
 
Hopefully it is a case of "if civilization gets high enough, the barbarian stronghold goes away, if civilization gets low enough, a new stronghold is formed", with the limits being something like 40 to remove a stronghold and 10 to create one.
Maybe they could add a barbarism suppresses modifier for when a strong civilizing presence keeps them from going out and rampaging.
 
When the white walkers lead a barbarian horde of wights out of the Himalayas onto the Asia steppe and beyond are there supplies of dragon glass on the map or can Odin, Thor and Tyr be invoked to save the day?
 
I will consider this as "we will add china in a DLC"
I don't believe that is the reference to the eventual inclusion of China (something I do eventually wish to see but understand why it is not included in base game). I believe it is more of a reference to an event chain that is caused later in the game, similar to the Mongol Invasion or the fantasy Aztec Invasion in CK2.
 
I don't believe that is the reference to the eventual inclusion of China (something I do eventually wish to see but understand why it is not included in base game). I believe it is more of a reference to an event chain that is caused later in the game, similar to the Mongol Invasion or the fantasy Aztec Invasion in CK2.

Let me belive in whatever I wanna. They will add china... they will *brakes and cries dramatically*