Imperator Dev Diary: Traditions and more inventions

Imperator Dev Diary: Traditions and more inventions

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MohawkWolfo98

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I have to agree with the negative comments re. 'stepping through' the trees. You say it makes it more organic, but that's not how it comes across at all. More organic to me would be tied directly to integrated cultures, number of pops of that culture, etc. If you as a Greek state decide to conquer Italy (not at all unreasonable), once you've integrated an appropriate culture you should be able to start taking their traditions etc. There is no logical or 'organic' reason why you should first HAVE to 'step through' a different culture (that quite possibly isn't even represented in your empire at all) just to get to the one that it quite clearly makes total sense that you would by that point have access to, except game mechanics.
Yeah, I agree with this. Whilst I agree we should not encourage disjointed invasions, if u add culture specific troops then I would love to adopt through military traditions to have a Roman army made of Germanic horsemen, just like how Caesar did. It would really increase the flavour and makes the military traditions tree really useful rather than modifiers.

I would put some conditions to prevent disjointed invasions - the pops must at least x % of ur empire, integrated culture levels set at Noble, as well as y number of years to have such a tradition. Furthermore, with diplomatic and naval range, I cant as Rome just suddenly invade Britain anyway.

EDIT: Something unique as well, if as Rome u begin applying Germanic traditions and integrating foreign pops etc, you could trigger an event chain or events from the Senate of the optimates and the Boni grumbling at how their way of life and military tadition is being destroyed by barbarians etc. That would be cool!
 
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Agree with most of the suggestions to somehow allow adopting any other military tradition given integration status of cultures with those traditions, enough pops etc.

In my oppinion the game will benefit most when different game mechanics become more and more intertwined and integrated and not just separate mechanics. This really gives depth to the game.

So I would like to see integration of mechanics e.g. in:

- Unlocking military tradition with the integration of cultures (calls in this thread)

- Great wonders with temples (gradual build up of temple complexes containing relics and not just a separate phalusoid great wonders tgat we were shown)

- Relating individual cohorts to pops, ther social class and culture based in specific territtories (giving consequences to pops in the territory if the cohorts get slauthered etc.)

I know nothing about game design and programing and perhaps such integration of mechanics is really hard to implement or it is processor heavy or something.

Otherwise, I am glad we are seeing sweeping changes to the game, I have no doubt that the game will pick up a more numerous playerbase in time. The Devs are doing an amazing job!
 
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Bovrick

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Another option to unlock Military Traditions from other Cultures could be needing a General/Military Office Character of an appropriate Integrated Culture. Maybe with sufficient Popularity/Prominence. Then unlocking a single new Military Tradition tree fires off an event chain around that person, with Loyalty impacts on Generals of other Cultures for a to give some Civil War risk as the drawback, or another bout of "Integration" growing pains for Cohort Morale.
 
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I should add that there is also a requirement to have an integrated culture of the appropriate variety, in order to be able to adopt different culture traditions - the tooltip is simply too ugly to show right now ;)
Just to clarify, unlocking foreign traditions does just that, unlock. Not replace? So we can pick stuff from both traditions and create a hybrid culture?
 
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gamblingworld

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This looks ace. I always felt like the ideas system in EU4 was great because it made your country feel distinctive- you literally made radical choices about powers you would have (ie more or less merchants, drastically stronger navies, the ability to colonize) that would make each run super different.

I felt that ability to customize your run was a big gap in imperator. It looks like you're going full steam to add it though. Can't wait to play the new version.

My one other big feeling about imperator was that the European tribes never felt right. I feel like going into Europe as rome in this period should be like wading through treacle, tribes should be forming into huge alliances to try and crush you if you disrupt them too much too quickly.

As it is though tribes are just something to be brushed aside, and wading into Europe is kind of dull. I hope you get a time to revisit the mechanics of tribal interaction. I know she came later but i want to feel the wrath of Boudica if i delve too deep and too quickly into the European tribes.
 
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Dayvit78

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Yes yes!
I have been wanting choice in inventions and military innovations since the start. It works so well in EUIV, I don't know why in IR, it was just a boring, linear progression.
 

MohawkWolfo98

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This looks ace. I always felt like the ideas system in EU4 was great because it made your country feel distinctive- you literally made radical choices about powers you would have (ie more or less merchants, drastically stronger navies, the ability to colonize) that would make each run super different.

I felt that ability to customize your run was a big gap in imperator. It looks like you're going full steam to add it though. Can't wait to play the new version.

My one other big feeling about imperator was that the European tribes never felt right. I feel like going into Europe as rome in this period should be like wading through treacle, tribes should be forming into huge alliances to try and crush you if you disrupt them too much too quickly.

As it is though tribes are just something to be brushed aside, and wading into Europe is kind of dull. I hope you get a time to revisit the mechanics of tribal interaction. I know she came later but i want to feel the wrath of Boudica if i delve too deep and too quickly into the European tribes.
I agree with all ur points but I certainly hope any updates doesnt follow the pathway as Boudicca, seeing as she was defeat by a Roman Army a tenth her size and surronded :)
 
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rogfturner

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You require to step through the trees; we do not want to encourage disjointed naval invasions of Britain/India just to pick up optimal traditions. If gameplay like that is encouraged, the system feels even less organic than before.
I respectfully wonder that if one can casually invade Britain or India as Rome, then there is an issue with diplo/naval reach, and/or supply system...?
 

Arheo

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Just to clarify, unlocking foreign traditions does just that, unlock. Not replace? So we can pick stuff from both traditions and create a hybrid culture?
Correct
 
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With all the changes to the UI that have been made, will we get to see how the Great Works UI has changed for the new update too?
 
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Good stuff! Romans were famously good at plagiarism so it's great that you can choose to do that now.
The unlocks are 'hard-coded' per culture and not tied to geographic proximity or integrated cultures, correct?
Regardless, more choice is great. I really like the direction you're taking with this!
"you will eventually be able to unlock almost any tradition category from anywhere in the world."
 

Seleukos.I.Nikator

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This sounds a bit OP, actually. I hope bonuses have been rearranged so the better ones are at the ends of the trees, to entice people to follow one or two.
But you still need to spend the military points to unlock each invention. So I don't think that this will be so easy for you to really unlock all of them.

You may try to prioritize gaining the military experience, but that comes at the price. Training your troops might, for example, be very beneficial in terms of gaining military experience, but it will put a huge strain on your economy.
 
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Maybe adopting a foreign tradition requiring that culture to be majority compare to your primary culture would solve the issue and make it more organic. Also, if you look at it, that's how/when this thing happened in history. Of course this requirement is beside the integrating requirement.
Yeah, I agree with this. Whilst I agree we should not encourage disjointed invasions, if u add culture specific troops then I would love to adopt through military traditions to have a Roman army made of Germanic horsemen, just like how Caesar did. It would really increase the flavour and makes the military traditions tree really useful rather than modifiers.
Unlocking culture-specific units via integrating them would be better I suppose.
 
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Maybe adopting a foreign tradition requiring that culture to be majority compare to your primary culture would solve the issue and make it more organic. Also, if you look at it, that's how/when this thing happened in history. Of course this requirement is beside the integrating requirement.
I wouldn't say a majority, but a certain percentage or number at the point you unlock the tradition (but you shouldn't lose it afterwards, if the pops of a culture drop after embracing their military tradition).
 

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I wouldn't say a majority, but a certain percentage or number at the point you unlock the tradition (but you shouldn't lose it afterwards, if the pops of a culture drop after embracing their military tradition).
I favor the majority factor more. It's more logical thus immersive and would be less cheesy.
 

Decius

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I favor the majority factor more. It's more logical thus immersive and would be less cheesy.
It could/should be a high percentage or number, but not necessarily the majority, because this might be too limiting and if balanced right it still shouldn't be cheesy (and imo you should have to grant the noble rights to such a culture too). I just prefer it that way, because historically it was way more often the case to borrow things from other cultures. So the sweet spot has to be found between gameplay (cheese) and historical immersion. The devs could test this and choose the best solution. It's difficult to say, what the ideal balance looks like, if we cannot test it.
 
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master_kong

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I just prefer it that way, because historically it was way more often the case to borrow things from other cultures.
I think borrowing things should be represented by integrating cultures. Changing military traditions should be more limiting.
 
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Decius

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I think borrowing things should be represented by integrating cultures. Changing military traditions should be more limiting.
Afaik you don't change the military tradition, but add a military tradition "tree" (or whatever it looks at release) from the other culture. Or did I misunderstand, how the new system works? So imo it presents "borrowing" military units and tactics.
 
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