Imperator Dev Diary: Traditions and more inventions

Imperator Dev Diary: Traditions and more inventions

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Arheo

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Big fan of unlocking inventions only through innovations. Also, I really like how cultures can now borrow military traditions from neighbors - much more realistic. Also, really loving the new artwork/UI we keep seeing.

I should add that there is also a requirement to have an integrated culture of the appropriate variety, in order to be able to adopt different culture traditions - the tooltip is simply too ugly to show right now ;)
 
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This update is getting better and better with each dev diary. It's going to be amazing !
 

Seleukos.I.Nikator

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I should add that there is also a requirement to have an integrated culture of the appropriate variety, in order to be able to adopt different culture traditions - the tooltip is simply too ugly to show right now ;)

Oh, but that was a very important detail that you'd missed. Good to know that!
 
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Praetorian44

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Can we mod the gold cost for innovations back in? Or even change the cost to a different currency if it fits the mod?
 
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I should add that there is also a requirement to have an integrated culture of the appropriate variety, in order to be able to adopt different culture traditions - the tooltip is simply too ugly to show right now ;)
But... Will we be able to adopt any culture traditions of a culture that we have integrated? In other words, if I'm Greek and I integrate an Italic culture, will I be able to adopt Italic traditions? Or from Greek traditions I can only go to Levantine traditions? In order to adopt the Italic traditions, do I need to first adopt whichever culture traditions can adopt the Italic ones?
 
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And I'm not convinced about removing the gold cost for inventions completely. I would have liked to see an innovation system that required a monthly gold investment to produce innovations. And the more you invest monthly, the faster you get innovations (sort of the R&D budget of your empire). Also, removing the scaling gold cost completely removes one of the advantages of tall empires... I would have preferred to have a scaling cost, but maybe not scaling as much as it does right now.
 

Arheo

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And I'm not convinced about removing the gold cost for inventions completely. I would have liked to see an innovation system that required a monthly gold investment to produce innovations. And the more you invest monthly, the faster you get innovations (sort of the R&D budget of your empire). Also, removing the scaling gold cost completely removes one of the advantages of tall empires... I would have preferred to have a scaling cost, but maybe not scaling as much as it does right now.

The disparity between tall and wide was simply too great; though it should be said that tall will still have the edge on technology in research points and gaining innovations.
 
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Arheo

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But... Will we be able to adopt any culture traditions of a culture that we have integrated? In other words, if I'm Greek and I integrate an Italic culture, will I be able to adopt Italic traditions? Or from Greek traditions I can only go to Levantine traditions? In order to adopt the Italic traditions, do I need to first adopt whichever culture traditions can adopt the Italic ones?

You require to step through the trees; we do not want to encourage disjointed naval invasions of Britain/India just to pick up optimal traditions. If gameplay like that is encouraged, the system feels even less organic than before.
 
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The disparity between tall and wide was simply too great; though it should be said that tall will still have the edge on technology in research points and gaining innovations.
I am assuming you will be liberal in giving additional innovations? Or will tech gain be faster. As it seems the amount of inventions you will be able to gain from just techs is very limited.
 

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You require to step through the trees; we do not want to encourage disjointed naval invasions of Britain/India just to pick up optimal traditions. If gameplay like that is encouraged, the system feels even less organic than before.
So... if you are greek you can only embrace levantine, Then you could embrace whatever tradition of the levantine tree and so on...
With Epirus you would be forced to embrace levantine despite expanding to the Italic Peninsula.
Not good.
There must to be a way to avoid these tactics like require x large amount of POPS... Anyway i wouldn’t mind people mixmaxing and cheesing if I can have a more dynamic and unique system.
 
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Biegeltoren

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I do hope this doesn't preclude cultural units from existing. I want my gaullic cav auxiliaries and my potentially mixed arms for the diadochi, or purely greek military, but only recruited from greek pops as well.
 
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You require to step through the trees; we do not want to encourage disjointed naval invasions of Britain/India just to pick up optimal traditions. If gameplay like that is encouraged, the system feels even less organic than before.
Hmm... I don't think I like this. This does not feel organic at all. If someone wants to go out of their way to invade India as Macedon, and integrate an Indian culture just to get access to Indian traditions... I think they might deserve it? If we have to step through the different trees, we can still find ourselves invading a few provinces in Levant (to adopt Levantine traditions), then a few provinces in Tunis (to adopt North African traditions), then a few in Italy (i just made up this order) just to adopt Italic traditions... And this does not feel organic...

I think a better system would be to require the integration of a culture from the specific culture group as well as a certain number of pops of that culture. In this way one would need to conquer more land (or raid slaves, or grow pops), and you would avoid these potential exploits.

In any case, great stuff. Keep up the good work!

EDIT: clarified the "culture jumps"
 
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I had kind of given up on this game, but these changes have peaked my interest again.

Awesome job :)
 

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You require to step through the trees; we do not want to encourage disjointed naval invasions of Britain/India just to pick up optimal traditions. If gameplay like that is encouraged, the system feels even less organic than before.
What about my example with Migrations? That would be completely organic/historic.

Plus doesn't the Diplo/conquest range handle the issue of distant invasions, or is that being scrapped?

I get that there's a concern that you can tap into any tree as soon as you have a single Pop to Integrate of each Culture group, which is a bit cheesy. You could currently just go and enslave a single Pop from each Culture group and have the option to open any tree whenever it suits. Surely there can be a different threshold to meet rather than hard coding a path between these trees: maybe to allow Integration you need a City/Province that is majority that Culture? Or if that is even too bad, make the requirement be a Province that is Majority that Culture and Majority State Religion, to really make you work to earn obscure Cultures.

Ideally we could have a system relating Cohorts to Pops, and Traditions would only influence the Cohorts from the appropriate culture group. That way you would only want to integrate a culture with enough Pops to make it worthwhile.
 
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or the family tree viewer in Crusader Kings III.

is it possible that Great Families are shown in a similar family tree viewer?

all else looks great sofar!
 
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Shogun96

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You require to step through the trees; we do not want to encourage disjointed naval invasions of Britain/India just to pick up optimal traditions. If gameplay like that is encouraged, the system feels even less organic than before.

I get what you're trying to do, but I think the system should be more flexible. A Macedon player who reunites Alexander's empire should be able to adopt Indian traditions.
An Epirus player who conquers Rome should be able to adopt italic traditions.
A Roman player conquering Gaul should be able to adopt Gallic traditions (as they historically did, btw, as several Roman weapons were actually copied and then perfected from the gauls).
 
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I have to agree with the negative comments re. 'stepping through' the trees. You say it makes it more organic, but that's not how it comes across at all. More organic to me would be tied directly to integrated cultures, number of pops of that culture, etc. If you as a Greek state decide to conquer Italy (not at all unreasonable), once you've integrated an appropriate culture you should be able to start taking their traditions etc. There is no logical or 'organic' reason why you should first HAVE to 'step through' a different culture (that quite possibly isn't even represented in your empire at all) just to get to the one that it quite clearly makes total sense that you would by that point have access to, except game mechanics.
 
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I have to agree with the negative comments re. 'stepping through' the trees. You say it makes it more organic, but that's not how it comes across at all. More organic to me would be tied directly to integrated cultures, number of pops of that culture, etc. If you as a Greek state decide to conquer Italy (not at all unreasonable), once you've integrated an appropriate culture you should be able to start taking their traditions etc. There is no logical or 'organic' reason why you should first HAVE to 'step through' a different culture (that quite possibly isn't even represented in your empire at all) just to get to the one that it quite clearly makes total sense that you would by that point have access to, except game mechanics.

This issue arises from the use of trees to unlock inventions. Instead of trees, other gates could be used.

As other have said, integration of other cultures, having freeman from those cultures, etc.. could be the only gate to those inventions. (or you could add research level if needed)

The whole tree thing is a representation of a system based on building inventions over other inventions. But this is not always the case. Inventions can come from gameplay, events, etc...

One extreme example, "centuries of war" military tradition could unlock only after using armies with heavy infantry for at least 100 years.
 
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