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Well, we're back after a hectic week of PDXCon and office relocation. Those that were able to attend PDXCon were able to play the Livy update in its current state, and there are a number of interviews and articles emerging that contain snippets of information on the various upcoming mechanics that will be appearing soon.

However, fear not! Dev Diaries shall continue, and I'll make sure you all get a detailed view of what is coming in the Livy update, as well as The Punic Wars; the free Content Pack accompanying Livy.

Today, we'll take a look at Statesmanship, and a few of the UX improvements associated with it.

The concept of statesmanship was borne out of a desire to add both a level of character progression to the political scene, and to add a new aspect to decision-making when appointing Officers.

Statesmanship itself represents the bureaucratic skills of a character, intentionally avoiding conflation with military prowess, as we felt this mechanic did not translate well to the military aspect of the game.

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As you can see here, Statesmanship dictates how much of a character's relevant attribute they are able to apply to their current role, scaling the effect of an office accordingly. We'll be taking a look at scaling the effects of offices to account for the slightly average top-end threshold for characters, and to ensure that highly skilled individuals have their abilities properly represented.

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Statesmanship grows at a different rate depending on which job a character currently holds, with 'lesser' jobs such as governorships and technology offices acting as lower-level training positions. The effect of tech officers will not be scaled by statesmanship for balance reasons, and characters holding one of these offices will plateau at roughly 25% statesmanship, over a period of time.

Higher offices will yield a higher statesmanship plateau, however, characters with certain traits may find themselves able to naturally attain higher statesmanship levels, as well as those of higher social status (more on this in a future diary!) being more likely to make capable officers.

The reason we wanted to make this change was to do away with the highly simplistic choice of officers; prior to 1.3, there was little reason not to fire someone and replace them with a higher stat character.

Lastly, characters holding high office (one of the eight primary offices) yet who have low statesmanship, may result in certain undesirable events being fired, and consequently, those characters who attain a particularly high level of statesmanship may be responsible for firing positive events. This leads me on to the next feature we're implementing in Livy - the Minor Event Queue.

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The minor event queue, shown above in the bottom right corner of the picture, is a first step towards delineating between content that we want to interrupt the player with, and content that we consider optional or of low importance.

Events spawned by characters, either due to statesmanship level or otherwise, all fall into the category of minor importance. We wanted to show these to the player, but we found that interrupting the experience with a popup demanding a choice, was often quite invasive to the gameplay experience. Instead, events categorized as 'minor', will be added to the event queue instead.

Here, they will time down to 0 days, before dismissing themselves by selecting the first, default option. If you choose to interact with them during this time, you will receive a popup event as you might expect, albeit with a slightly different visual style:

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We fully intend to iterate on this concept in future, perhaps allowing for additional functionality, and converting events that people find repetitive or unimportant to the minor category. The most important aspect of this change in my own opinion, is that we now have a way to bring out more of the character simulation that we previously deemed too minor to interrupt the player experience with; hopefully resulting in a more engaging world, for those who wish to engage with the content.

Now I shall hand over to @Trin Tragula , who'll bring you up to date with some of the map and content changes coming in 1.3, as well as another shiny new feature!

/Arheo

Hi all :) Today I will be going over some of the flavor additions in the Update as well as the new Map Mode Manager.

Regional Changes in the Livy Update

One objective that the Livy Update aims for is to increase the flavor in the world and one way that we hope to do so is by adding more regional flavor. The map has been updated with more territories and playable countries in a number of regions, and we have also added more local Omens and Heritages to countries in the game.


Additional Omens:

While Pompey added a great deal of variety in terms of Omens to the game it was often unclear why you had a particular Omen. In Livy Patch will add a clear indication as to why you have a certain Omen available to you.

omenpatron.png


As can be seen above the tooltip of an Omen will now always state what made it available to you, in this case Helios is available as he is the patron deity of Rhodes.

New Patron Deities (ie Omens that are available because of your capital location) :
  • Poseidon: Corinth, Chalcis
  • Herakles: Acragas, Kos, Thasos
  • Hephaeustus: Acragas, Athens, Lemnos
  • Asclepius: Acragas, Epidauros
  • Aphrodite: Athens, Aphrodisias, Corinth, Paphos
  • Eros: Thespiai
  • Hera: Argos, Samos, Olympia, Elis, Ionia
  • Artemis: Ephesos, Delos, Ionia, Nesiotic League
  • Helios: Corinth, Rhodes
  • Persephone: Locri
  • Dionysus: Amphipolis, Orchomenos, Naxos, Thebes, Boeotia, Nesiotic League
  • Pan: Arcadian Cities and Tags

We have also added a whole group of new Omens for Crete:

omencrete.png

  • Diktynna
  • Eleuthya
  • Velchanos
  • Rhea
  • Diktean Zeus
  • Ariadne
  • Amaya
  • Karmanor

Specific Omens for Hellenistic Pontus (Similarly to the Serapis cult omens getting these will entail reacting to flavor content):
  • Herakles
  • Zeus Stratios
  • Selene
  • Cybele
  • Mithra
  • Men
  • Aphrodite
  • Dionysus

Lastly while the main flavor focus of the update is related to missions we have added a number of historical flavor events for the following countries:

  • Massalia
  • Thrace
  • Iberia
  • Armenia
  • Phrygia, Pontus and Paphlagonia
  • Diadochi Coronations

Map Changes

No Flavor Update would be complete without map changes. The livy update brings an updated map and new countries in a number of areas.

Hibernia & Caledonia:
hibernia.png


Not much is known about the island today known as Ireland at Imperator’s start date. Nonetheless it is certain that the island was not devoid of political entities and @Snow Crystal has given it a second go through and added a number of playable tribes here. This increases the dynamics of politics and warfare, even if migration and colonization are still necessary to control the island. Modern Scotland has also been a facelift.


Baltics:
baltics.png


Another area revisited is the Baltic coastline of modern Lithuania and Poland, adding both more colonizable land and more tribes to the dynamics in northern Europe.


Sicily:
sicily.png


As the Free Content Pack coming along Livy will focus on Rome and Carthage it felt natural to focus on adding more detail to the island of Sicily, which was often at the frontline of Punic and Italic conflicts. The Livy update will greatly reduce the conglomerate country “Siculia” which previously represented all the central Sicilian states acting independently in the power vacuum after the Carthaginian-Syracusan wars. Instead there are now 3 such states (Siculia, Calactea, and Tyndaria) in a common defensive league.

The update also sees the addition of both Carthaginian client states (Selinous and Heraclea Minoa) and the subject state Gelas under Syracuse on the southern coastline next to the independent city state of Akragas.


Greece:
greece.png


While Greece is in many ways already one of the more interesting places in the game some historically important powers have up to now lacked the detail and strategic depth that they need to be accurately represented. The Livy update revisits Attica and Boeotia with more territories and impassables, as well as the seazones surrounding the mainland itself. The objective here has been to make the region more strategically interesting (in a similar way to Peleponesos) by adding in historical mountain passes and fortresses.

Navigable Rivers

The Pompey update added a number of Navigable rivers to the game and the effect these have had on both land and naval warfare is something we have found very beneficial to the game. The Livy update will therefore add navigable zones to a number of rivers that did not have them before:

danube.png


  • The Danube/Ister River is now navigable up to the Iron Gates
  • The Ganges now has additional arms to the Ganges Delta and its tributary, Brahmaputra, is navigable up to Balipura.
  • The Rhone/Rhodanus is now navigable up to Arelatis.
  • The Garonne/Garumna is now navigable to Praemiacum.
  • The Seine/Sequana is now navigable up to Avalocum.
  • The Loire/Liger is now navigable up to Turonorum.
  • The Elbe/Albis is now navigable to Aregellia.
  • The Dniestr/Tyras is now navigable up to Clepidava.
  • The Dniepr/Borysthenes is now navigable in the entirety of the portion before it enters impassable land.



Map Mode Manager

A common request for improving the UI of Imperator has been the addition of new Map Modes. We generally agree that map modes can be a very useful way to show information, the map is after all the main interface that our game is played on. At the same time Imperator had quite a few map modes already, too many to add more in the row that is constantly shown above the mini map.

In order to accommodate more Map Modes the Livy update comes with a map mode manager, which lets you open any map mode that exists in the game, and if you so wish, drag and drop it on the bar of map modes above the mini map for quick reference. The map mode keyboard shortcuts will now point to the slots in the map mode bar rather than to specific map modes.

dragdrop.png

Screenshot of the terrain map mode being dragged to the bar above the minimap.

The update itself will not come with any new map modes but now that we have a Map Mode manager we hope to add new ones in future updates when we see the need for it.

If you have suggestions for new map modes that you would like to see, we would love to hear them :)

That was all for today, next week we will be back on our usual Monday time and @Snow Crystal will tell you all about the Carthaginian Mission Trees that we are adding to the Punic Wars content pack :)
 
They do not have the same effect with different localization. As of a couple of patches ago the effects also differ depending on what your Omens are.
As a Hindu you have a different set of effects available to you compared to a Druidic tag for instance :)
Likewise these patron deity omens unlock effects you would otherwise not have in that pantheon.

More religion specific flavor would be absolutely great, no doubt about that, but this is not a case of just adding more localizations, not in the current version and not in Livy either :) .

I think actually most of us would be quite easy to please, with the addition of extra regional deities in text localisation, if we just had some graphical variance in the images in the omen tab it would go a long way into making it feel "different" . I appreciate there is a cost to hire artists, and that many developers probably don't keep them around post release for this kind of thing (resulting in possible artistic variance, CK2 portrait packs were a product of this I'm guessing), but it would be massive in showing that IR is not a bland game for very simple changes.

Other than that comment, its good to see the changes (including to deities). I'm surprised how much change has happened to the British Isles, we were a boring place back then before the Romans civilised us ;)
 
Indeed. In fact, in Roman politics, getting a governorship was one of the highest positions aside from being Consuls/Praetors. It was very powerful because some governors could run their provinces like their personal kingdoms, with their own armies and secret foreign dealings, as long as the Senate go the tax money.

For some men, becoming a governor was an opportunity to earn enormous sums of money, which they could use in their later political career. Cicero came to prominence investigating and removing governors who bled their provinces dry to leech money from them, and fixing the damage they did.

Governorship shouldn't be a minor position.

The most minor position possible would be that of the court medic (shouldn't even exist in republics, realistically speaking), yet it is presented as a major position, equivalent of a cabinet minister lol

Yes - governors were usually senior figures - this links back to the cursus honorum, governors were promagistrates, ex-consuls or ex-praetors - a well thought through sequence of offices would really help immersion, there should be qualifications required to access the senior posts
 
What if most higher-rank characters werent appointed to office manually and directly, but instead characters in the cabinet fought for appointments dynamically - behind the scenes if you will - depending on their powerbase, family prestige, popularity, stats etc. In an ideal world, there would be lower and higher offices, and a character would have to amass some statesmanship to be eligible for the latter, creating a sort of progression and a natural, gradual generational shift in the upper echelons.

In a monarchy, the player would be able to overwrite this by simply choosing whoever they want at a tyranny cost, but in a republic, you would be stuck with whoever actually climbed up the ranks, and if you wanted to get rid of them then you'd have to use the put on trial interaction, or maybe promise them a favor to convince them to resign.

As there are relatively few governors, those could be appointed via event which would give you a choice between, say, four most eligible candidates, each from a different "great family". rather than just appointing some no-name nobody to such a high office. This would go to the event queue in order not to disrupt gameplay, so you could choose between managing it and having a roll of the dice choose at random on event timeout.

Again, in a monarchy you would be able to overrule this selection at a tyranny cost and loyalty drop for all great family members if you really need to. Put on trial or offer favours if you have to change a governor, instead of being able to switch them whenever you want.

Essentially, I think that doing away with direct appointments would do the game good - characters instantly become more important if you cannot just dismiss them at will whenever you want, whereas if you can do so, they are just pawns you freely manipulate, even with systems like statesmanship to dissuade you from doing so.

That is not to say the player would be bereft of means to affect appointments - quite the contrary actually - between direct appointment of generals and researches, giving out holdings, choosing between governor candidates from events, possibly sending characters as emissaries to establish embassies in important foreign countries, which could come alongside a diplomacy overhaul, etc, you would be able to indirectly manipulate who becomes popular and influential, and thus who is likely to achieve high office in the end, just not as directly as now.

What I'm trying to say is that sometimes less direct control can make for a more fun, interesting, and immersive gameplay experience than outright micromanagement of everything. It would also reduce tedium. What do you think?
 
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Very good dev diary with lots of interesting content.

The statesmanship concept is very intriguing and the new omens add some extra regional flavour and depth.

One thing that puzzles me, though, is why the governorship is regarded as minor post compared to all the court positions?

Both in reality and in the gameplay terms the governors (or satraps) would be one of the most powerful men in the country with much greater amount of 'statesmanship' to their credit than, for example, the court medic or philosophos. That's perhaps something that you may want to think about.

Indeed, i would agree. One example is Caesar used his governorship of Gaul to become powerful enough to overthrow the senate and win many consecutive victories against the opposing Pompey faction armies
 
Crunbum
"Essentially, I think that doing away with direct appointments would do the game good - characters instantly become more important if you cannot just dismiss them at will whenever you want, whereas if you can do so, they are just pawns you freely manipulate, even with systems like statesmanship to dissuade you from doing so.

That is not to say the player would be bereft of means to affect appointments - quite the contrary actually - between direct appointment of generals and researches, giving out holdings, choosing between governor candidates from events, possibly sending characters as emissaries to establish embassies in important foreign countries, which could come alongside a diplomacy overhaul, etc, you would be able to indirectly manipulate who becomes popular and influential, and thus who is likely to achieve high office in the end, just not as directly as now.

What I'm trying to say is that sometimes less direct control can make for a more fun, interesting, and immersive gameplay experience than outright micromanagement of everything. It would also reduce tedium. What do you think?[/QUOTE]


Excellent ideas for a more dynamic political experience. I really like your thinking - less is more, in this case less direct control = more immersion, makes character manipulation much more interesting as you would have more investment.
Several really interesting ideas suggested involving quid pro quo's, eg tyranny or trial or favours cost to intervene in directly selecting candidates. Yes to limiting choice of candidates severely, largely to 'great family' candidates but should be possible for 'new man' candidates to emerge from outside the select circle (think Marius and Cicero).
 
What do you think?

You made a good suggestion that immediately pissed off a raging mouth-breathing fanboy. That means it was actually a good suggestion. :)

It is the senate's job to appoint praetors, tribunes and quaestors and so on, not the ruler. Even EU-Rome had Senate appointing offices. They should do away with this oversimplified system of appointing indefinite-term ministers in republics by hand, and only allow manual reappointment at a heavy cost of political influence and tyranny (because doing so is subverting the senate's authority).

Every election, new characters should be elected for each office. Even better if there are accurate age limits for countries like Rome (so no 19 year old Consuls or 22 year old Praetors), as well as the 10-year ban from holding the same position again that was common in republics.

This way, republics will actually work like a republic, not a monarchy with another name. And it is realistic as well - an elected ruler would need time and influence to stack up offices with his friends and lackeys due to high costs of manually replacing elected candidates.

It makes no sense that the ruling Consul manually appoints Tribune of the Plebs...a position created specifically to oppose him and keep his powers in check in real life. It also makes no sense that Senate can vote on whether to send a character to prison, but has no say in whether to appoint him a general or governor or minister. THAT exactly is the wonky design problem with imperator that needs to be fixed.

I don't think monarchies should have that problem though. Three should be a political influence cost to replacing positions, but not tyranny.
 
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Is there a mechanic to deal with the problem of diversity fade away?

Those differences are exciting, but when country became bigger and bigger, all those conquered military traditions or omens are destroyed, but this is not the same in history.
 
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Is there a mechanic to deal with the problem of diversity fade away?

Those differences are exciting, but when country became bigger and bigger, all those conquered military traditions or omens are destroyed, but this is not the same in history.

Interesting point - maybe could use a regional recruitment pool to reflect strength of local military traditions?
 
statesmanship sounds cool, on the one hand, yet on the other hand in ancient times no one cared how good you are at your job, most offices were held by heritage, rather by merit. especially for autocratic monarchies.
 
You really should revisit Anatolia, especially Western Anatolia as its map is not sufficient. There should be much more impassable terrains as well as farmlands around Ionia for example. Currently there are no fertile lands in Anatolia.
 
statesmanship sounds cool, on the one hand, yet on the other hand in ancient times no one cared how good you are at your job, most offices were held by heritage, rather by merit. especially for autocratic monarchies.

I think that's an overstatement.

People did care how good you were are your job, its just that the talent pool is much more shallow than in society with greater social mobility and that open class consciousness and solidarity among the elite wasn't questioned in the same way it would be today, to my understanding.
 
I think that's an overstatement.

People did care how good you were are your job, its just that the talent pool is much more shallow than in society with greater social mobility and that open class consciousness and solidarity among the elite wasn't questioned in the same way it would be today, to my understanding.

Indeed - There is also the fact that people who were educated and had merit and skill to be an administrator...often came from the said elite heritage, because education was expensive. People who could educate their wards to a degree of high skill were either nobles, or rich merchants (who would eventually become nobility).

Even in republics where anyone could get elected to positions, politicians still needed skills, money and so on. Heritage and merit worked together in republics, weight being skewed one way or another depending on whether a nation was a republic or a monarchy.

Granted, education was more readily available in all major civilizations in this time compared to medieval era, but merit and heritage were somewhat tied together. It was never a single factor.

The statesmanship system represents it kinda good enough.
 
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I think you should give access to Aphrodite as a patron deity if you have your capital anywhere in Cyprus. Her cult was extremely important on this island.

I really like what you did in Sicily and Ireland, by the way!
 
I think that's an overstatement.

People did care how good you were are your job, its just that the talent pool is much more shallow than in society with greater social mobility and that open class consciousness and solidarity among the elite wasn't questioned in the same way it would be today, to my understanding.
You might be right. However, it was drastically different among states.
 
Would love to see a map settlement/city/metro mapmode that shows which territories have available building slots. Think you could just pull it from the macro builder.
I'd go even further and say that map modes should be entirely moddable, with modders being able to create entirely new map modes as they see fit.
I've had this pet peeve with almost every PDX game I've played, more complex mods could really use that feature.
M&T managed to do it for EU4 in a very inventive way, but only as a consequence of completely abandoning the trade goods mechanics.
 
Imperator dev diaries are always so exciting to read. I do think it is the most innovative of paradox's games.

But heres an example of why people say it feels the same playing no matter where you are:
This statemanship mechanic feels like it fits well in a civilized empire like rome, or greece, or other civilized places like that. But it feels out of place with tribes in northern europe. While i'm sure experience makes for better leaders in tribes, too, something called "statesmanship" has feeling of an ill fit.

But other than that, it does seem like an exciting development :)

YES! This should not be something the minor tribes have especially the barbarians. Also, the Sicily and Greece redos are awesome but Ireland and Baltics? I mean c'mon what is the point of those?