Imperator DD : Civilization, Buildings and Macedon

Imperator DD : Civilization, Buildings and Macedon

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Arheo

Game Director, Imperator: Rome
Feb 13, 2018
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Greetings all!

Today, @Chopmist will be taking you through the mission trees for the final nation we’re covering in the Heirs of Alexander content pack: Macedon.

Before we deal with the bloodthirsty Kassander however, it’s time to explain some of the mechanics I’ve been teasing on twitter over the holidays.

Civilization Value

There are some significant changes coming to civ value. As an abstraction, it has never quite resonated with me - it is used at various points in the game to represent different things, and can be largely ignored beyond a certain point.

For the purposes of this rework, local civilization value is being more explicitly defined as the state of the infrastructure and sanitation of any given location. The monthly growth of civilization is not being changed explicitly, and this represents the education level and tradition of learning in a location. A territory with low growth will take longer to reach the cap, as before.

Where previously, civilization had a significant impact on the happiness of poptypes, this is being reduced. This is in part due to the cultural rework which focused on cultural poptypes and citizenship - after all, why should a citizen or noble resent living in a low infrastructure province if that is the norm for the area? Instead, the cultural impact of your pops will be far more important to the stability of your nation.

Civilization will now have a significant impact on the output capabilities of a province, and should be regarded as one of the most important local values. As such, we’re giving it pride of place in the new territory UI:

1.png


The effects of civilization are similarly important:

2.png


As you can see, the civilization value of a territory still has some effect on happiness, but far more impact on the overall output. Population output is now also tracked in the territory UI:

3.png


A territory will ‘break even’ at 30 civilization value, assuming no other modifiers are present. The output of territories where the dominant culture is not integrated will be subject to a further penalty, as will settlements:

4.png


(nb: the current starting max civilization level has not yet been adjusted for any territories - it will appear as over the cap in many of these WIP screenshots)

Pops will be relatively happy living in rural provinces, but will produce less compared to their urban brethren. This can of course be offset, as we will find out later.

Generating Civilization Cap

Along with these changes, an important change to the way in which we generate civilization cap is being introduced:

5.png


The contributions from government type and oratory technology have been drastically reduced, and are likely to be reduced even further. Instead, local factors become far more relevant - namely: buildings.

Most buildings will now contribute directly to civilization capacity in a territory, providing a huge amount more local variance in development levels throughout the map. Later in the game, you can expect to see flourishing capitals approaching 70-90% civilization, with values higher than this being reserved for those truly keen on eking the most out of their territories.

Building Changes

Related to the above, the building system is undergoing a minor refactor. As an addendum, I’d like to point out that while I’m aware many of you want a deep cultural building system, that is not something that we have the scope to address in this update.

6.png


City buildings have now been split into two categories -limited and unlimited. The top row of buildings are theoretically unlimited, and will function similarly to before - albeit with some rebalance, and now adding to civilization cap.

7.png


Most of the repeatable buildings will grant 2 civilization cap, with the notable exception of Aqueducts, which will function as before, granting flat local population capacity.

The bottom row of buildings are limited to a finite and unmodifiable (during gameplay) quantity. This functionality will of course be available to modders. Many of these limited buildings (with the exception of ratio buildings) will also require unlocking in the invention trees.

8.png


Pop ratio buildings are limited to 3, somewhat limiting the viability of mono-pop cities:

9.png


Finite buildings will be ‘capped’ visually to ensure you are aware you’ve reached the cap:

10.png


All the numbers you’re seeing are still subject to balance, of course. These changes aim to reduce some of the micromanagement and choice paralysis associated with having up to 16 unique buildings in an arbitrary number of cities, as well as adding some depth and progression to city building by tying buildings to the new technology system. In addition, the ‘gardening’ feeling is something that I know many of our players enjoy - playing tall and getting the most out of your pops should be enhanced by many of these changes.

Settlements will not be entirely left untouched by these changes, either. One of the big choices you’ll have to make during your campaign, if you head down the civic invention tree, is likely to interest those with a penchant for construction:

11.png


While still likely subject to balance, this exclusive choice will enable you to more definitively choose a ‘tall’ or ‘wide’ focus. Note that along with this change, all settlement buildings will still be unique - you are unable to sport a settlement with 2 mines, however you would be able to construct both a mine and a fort, or a barracks and tribal settlement.

/Arheo
 
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Chopmist

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Hello there, it’s Joe from Content again, back to talk you through the next set of missions coming in the Heirs of Alexander expansion. This time we’ll be looking at Macedon.

The story of this kingdom is a complex one, the crown flitting between the dynasty of Alexander’s successor Cassander and a myriad of petty claimants until the Antigonid dynasty eventually secured the throne, remaining there until the Roman conquest.

The Fates decided the Antipatrid dynasty would be short lived, but things were fairly stable in Macedon after the Antigonids took power, with wars against barbarians, Greek leagues, and the Illyrian tribes but no ambitious campaigns on the scale of the Diadochi wars until the Roman conquest. This need not be the case under your leadership, and there will be many opportunities to make moves.

Ultimately Macedon received three mission trees, with the latter two being available to any Macedonian country that supplants the Antipatrids in Pella, including the Antigonids, as well as the original tag.

Antipatros’ Legacy
By 304BC, Cassander had ruled Macedon as regent for thirteen years, and, unlike the other Diadochi, never claimed the title of basileus for himself. He has seen victory in the wars against Polyperchon and Olympias, securing Thessaly and successfully contesting the Antigonids in Greece, though his murder of the Argead heirs and harsh treatment of the Greek cities have given him a reputation for cruelty - embellished by the other successors to their benefit.

macedon1.jpg


Cassander’s immediate objectives are to prevail in the Greek wars against Antigonus, Chalcis being an important target, and ensure they do not reconquer Corinth, the symbolic center of Macedonian authority in the region. Establishing the League of Corinth is an objective Macedon shares with the Antigonids, creating a strong and loyal Greek feudatory if they can push the other successors from the peninsula.

macedon3.jpg


To help achieve these ends, Macedon has choices to make on the diminishing gold mines of Pangaeum, which funded Alexander’s initial invasion of Asia, as well as undermining the Athenian democracy to strike at the Antigonid’s hold over Greece, and establishing Antipatreia in Thessaly as an alternative to the Antigonid’s historical city of Demetrias.

macedon2.jpg


The long standing rivalry with the Taulantians and Epirotes will also be a pressing concern, their conquest putting an end to western threats and distractions from the Diadochi wars.

Macedon may also uplift or annex the Paeonian tribes to the north, creating stronger subjects or finally completing Philip II’s campaigns in the region, and continue the Macedonian tradition of recruiting the famed Agrianian javelinmen to permanently bolster their military.

Ultimately, the Antipatrids will turn their de-facto kingship into a reality, formalizing the Antipatrid-Argead dynasty as the new royal line of Macedon.

Hellenic Mastery
But we are not Mace-done yet. As mentioned above, the following trees are available to any Macedonian country which has supplanted Antipatrid Macedon, including the Antigonids. As such, their objectives can overlap with the first Macedonian tree to some degree.

The first is called Hellenic Mastery, and focuses on becoming the wider hegemon and cultural leader of the Greek world, something which Antigonus II and his descendants spent their time on the throne striving for.

macedon5.jpg


Macedon will aim to have their capital rival the sophistication of the old Greek cities, supplanting them as the population and cultural centers of the region. Philosophers may be attracted to the court based on the patronage Antigonus II gave to Zeno of Citium among many others, periodically providing skilled characters.

Becoming the cultural leader of the Greek world will also depend on religious power; developing the important sanctuary of Dion under Mount Olympus will provide access to a new deity, Zeus Olympios, as well as a unique treasure. Control can also be tightened over the famous oracles of Greece, providing periodic events with messages from the gods and pleasing your Hellenic subjects.

macedon6.jpg


Securing the main Greek cities directly will allow you to expand your influence - increasing assimilation speed and tax in the region - while controlling Messene will allow the construction of a fortress at Mount Ithome, a fourth fetter securing control over the Peloponnese which was suggested to Philip V.

Once the major Greek port cities around the Aegean are secured and Macedon has created a Metropolis to rival the cities of the east, the kingdom and dynasty will be secure.

Adriatic Dominance
Lastly, the third mission focuses on expansion westward into Illyria, something which was attempted unsuccessfully by Philip V, whose ambitions provoked the ire of Rome and ultimately led to their invasion of Greece and the end of the Macedonian kingdom.

macedon7.jpg


Macedon will vie to control the Hellenic colonies of the western sea by diplomacy or war, developing a chosen city to become its hub on the Adriatic, and constructing a road over the mountains between it and Pella.

macedon8.jpg


Ultimately this mission will see Macedon establish a foothold in Italia and dominate the entire Adriatic sea, with choices to make on the pirates that roam its waters and the fate of its natives.

That’s all from me!
 
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Kristaliorn

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Happy 2021 to Imperator Rome and all the team around it, hope you all have a great year. Also to the fans who support it with playtime , interaction and constructive criticism!
 
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Bovrick

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*Usual disclaimer that I obviously haven't done any playtesting of these changes, just a first impression!*

I appreciate that Aqueducts do not supply Civilisation value, but does this actually disincentivise the megacity? Adding Assimilation power and Output% to the Marketplace surely makes it easier to have a monster trading hub?
 
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Hi guys, happy 2021 to you all.

I think the new building system will be an improvement compared to the current one.

I dont know if it was adressed in a previous DD, but Id like to know about the Great Wonders DLC. Will it release with the 2.0 patch? Will it be an independent DLC from Heirs of Alexander, or will it be integrated into Heirs?
 
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Ukhan

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This is looking great, as usual.

I wonder how all these changes will affect tribes, which aside from the rural planning option only seem to be getting nerfed in this update. I imagine there are plans in store for the tribes to keep them competitive, now that they are losing their retinues. Couldthere be some information about this in a future dev diary?
 
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I guess Earthwork represents the Acropolis in each city? I don't think any Acropolis will occupy 10% of total land of your whole city, not to mention the average living density of the whole city would be lower than the slams. So in general occupying 10% of land area should lower less than 10% of population capacity.

And can we get an elaboration of how having just 3.0 shorter Combat Width is worth the investment? Fighting in a defensive terrain should give out much better advantages than just having a smaller number of files, especially for the Phalanges.
 
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Jiben

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This patch could be split in 2 and still be reasonably large. Can't wait to get my hands on 2.0 and Hoa
 
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I quote myself from 5th October

I've one big issue with the new Settlement-UI: You cant see buildings and Pop-Classes together! I need to know which pops living in my city to build the best buildings!

In this point, the old Territory-UI is better than the new one!

Please Paradox do not hide the most important informations about a settlement, the pop-classes and buildings, in different folders!
 
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Just done a quick search.

The Acropolis in Athens is 3.04 ha in size. Athens itself, just counting the densely populated urban area, is 41200 ha.

So I really don't see how building "Earthwork" should cost you 10% of population capacity.
 
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My gods, the buildings changes are everything that I always wanted, they're awesome! I like the power of the one-off buildings and I also love that you can't make a 80% noble only city anymore. Absolutely love it! This patch is full of awesome DDs.

So I really don't see how building "Earthwork" should cost you 10% of population capacity.
Game balance? I don't know the exact power of limitng CW in I:R, but it should never be underestimated.
 
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cristofolmc

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They are okay changes I suppose. Im a bit disappointed that we are still going to have the meta of unlimited buildings and unlimited aqueducts and mega cities. I dont understand why not do away with it completely and just with half of the buildings, but oh well.


I like the changes to civ and hows influenced by buildings. But again with unlimited buildings it will be easy to reach the 100 as usual. Easier than even before probably.
 
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Memokratos

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I have a question about fate of the Antipatrids: are Cassander and Phillipos doomed to succumb to the scripted diseases , or there is a possibility that it doesn’t happen?

For me it was disappointing that you can’t build your dominance in Greece because of the illness of Cassander.
 

Iosue Yu

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This is a map from Wikipedia, illustrating the area consisting only the Ancient city of Athens (the number I posted above was largely overestimated as it concerns with modern Athens).

Still, very unconvincing that one of the most famous Acropolis such as the one of Athens, would still not occupy 10% of land, and therefore 10% of population capacity.

I think for both balance and being convincing, somewhere around 5% would be nice.

But then, we still need to see what Combat Width does before we draw conclusions about balance.
 
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IsaacCAT

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As an addendum, I’d like to point out that while I’m aware many of you want a deep cultural building system, that is not something that we have the scope to address in this update.
I appreciate very much the steps taken with buildings, considering that 2.0 is an update focused on war.

Let's hope in future updates the building system gets a proper overhaul.

Good work, eager to play asap!
 
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Decius

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Really love the new changes to buildings! While there is still some room for improvements, this is subject for a future update as it's explained in the DD that 2.0 isn't intented to focus on buildings. I also love the very good compromise between playing tall and wide. With the limits for the pop ratio buildings a huge improvement is accomplished by getting rid of the "gamey" aspect. Also the change to civilization is great and the possibility of getting an additional building slot for territories or focusing more on cities.

The only thing, which has to be adressed someday, is this huge spam of aqueducts for pop capacity. Maybe tie the pop capacity increase to other factors or a new factor other than aqueducts, so that you don't have to spam it in comparison to other unlimited buildings. This would also open up aqueducts providing a new bonus. Aqueducts could still provide a small percentage bonus to pop capacity (like 1 or 2% per aqueduct - balance depending of how the pop capacity gain will look and what's appropriate). Having in mind the future addition of fires, famines, diseases, etc., aqueducts may help in this regard to decrease the chances and impacts of such catastrophes plus adding the small pop capacity bonus (just a suggestion, how the building could be used, if pop capacity is gained otherwise). But it's important that there is not much need to build aqueducts for pop capacity. There shouldn't be one building, which is required way more often than others. And a building increasing the pop and therefore indirectly the building capacity is an issue - new building slots are currently needed for additional aqueducts, if you want more building slots in the future, which is a problem inherent in the system.

@Arheo I also created with photoshop some very small suggestions for the territory and province UI/UX. Even with some small UI changes in this DD, they are still relevant as they affect other areas of the UI. Link to the suggestion thread: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...r-2-0-including-showcase-screenshots.1449435/

Edit: One further thought on future building changes - maybe the addition of maintenance cost to some buildings or at some building levels would help to delay the overboarding gold wealth in the late game, if this is still an issue after 2.0.
Also seeing for a couple of buildings some building branches would be cool and would add a level of decision, what do you want to focus on in a city (if you build a certain branch, you cannot get the other ones in the same city at the same time - this would also help from a UI perspective as not more slots are needed than now)
 
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MohawkWolfo98

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Shouldn’t aqueducts be a limited building? I don’t remember Rome having 10 aqueducts in just it’s one city.
 
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Cadzon

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Thanks for the dev post!
Btw, am I the only one which miss the export bonuses? Feels like its one less layer of the system right now.
 
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