I'm worried that paradox will remove armies from Stellaris.

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Elfwind

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I always look forward to finding a very strong species. I turn them into Military Academy trained clone warriors and pretty soon, I've got unbeatable hordes who don't even need any bombardment help to capture planets. This include planets with a planetary shield.

FEs don't even seem to use gene warriors any more.

IMO Fallen Empires should have a special army that's thematic (like fore-runner stuff for materalists and spiritual elementals for spiritualists) that's powerful but can't be built normally.

I do use massive clone armies to defend my worlds since they are super cheap and not that terrible. Usually I resettle any very strongs to a militarist world I've captured for the extra VR combat thing buff on top of academy and they do great!
 
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Jia Xu

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One thing I feel that armies are missing right now is the ability to recruit armies from specific races within your empire. It would add some strategy to conquest. Your species might be weak, but then you could look at enslaving a very strong species in order to have an army of really strong shock troops. You could even go a step further and add some real Janissary stuff with the alien armies trying to control the empire if you let them get in too strong of a position.
 

Mitchz95

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One thing I feel that armies are missing right now is the ability to recruit armies from specific races within your empire. It would add some strategy to conquest. Your species might be weak, but then you could look at enslaving a very strong species in order to have an army of really strong shock troops. You could even go a step further and add some real Janissary stuff with the alien armies trying to control the empire if you let them get in too strong of a position.

We can already do that. First thing I did when I enslaved a Very Strong species was turn them into my personal Jem"Hadar soldiers. :p
 
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iniudan

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Wait, really? When I recruit armies, they just go into the queue to be be built. How do you choose specific species?

Well, you have to recruit from a planet where the species is present, then choose the unit type with the species you want, if more then one species on the planet.
 
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SacremPyrobolum

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The only thing I want to be taken away from armies are generals because I feel having a separate army and navy in space empire is unnecessary at best and confounding at worst. Armies would rely too much on navies to not be subordinate to them.

I also think its would be a mistake to get rid of transport ships and make them add-ons on other ships. People will just end up having two models: a combat ship and a transport ship. Having vulnerable transports isn't a problem as your transports are supposed to be fragile. Protecting them should be a major consideration of any war,

Armies should have a patch and DLC dedicated to them to add depth and make them not tedious. They should by no means be reduced as they are a vital part of the Stellaris experience and should be a major factor in war.
 
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Suor

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Don't worry about it, it's seems that wiz is reconsidering the way that armies work. Maybe we will see more depth in battles, transportation or events during combat, not a simplification of the whole thing. But this is a "maybe" obviously, wiz tweeter is not, in a way, “official”.

Here he is talking of armies after a campaign he just won:
View attachment 225398
View attachment 225395
Its look like he want to do that only because this not entertaining enough in stream on twitch
 
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The Founder

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Honestly, ground armies in 4x-ish space games simply do not mater outside of a dedicated secondary mode.
If the games that have them feature a Species Editor, ground combat is usually considered a "Dump Stat" during species creation.

In Space Empires the ground combat was mostly a boring chore.
In Star Drive 2 they did something nice, and made it a X-Com Style commando opeartion. WIch also tied well into the Story Mission System of the game.
In Galactic Civilisations you just throw millions of people at millions of defenders. Since you actually have to sacrifice your taxpayers for this and supply range is limited, buffing your defense can actually buy you a lot of time. More so then even in Stellaris.
Star Wars: Empire at war had the seperated modes. But there the orbital support was highly limited and both sides operated under a "fieldable units" cap on top of what they brought on the galaxy map. And it did not work for Multiplayer really.

Sword of the Stars? Pax Imperia? Sins of a Solar Empire? No Ground combat, only orbital bombardment.

If they just let planets flip the moment thier Fortifications reach 0* (asuming that marines aboard the ships conquered the planet with heavy orbital support), it would not affect the gameplay negatively. While also making Warfare easier on the AI and adding a bit of possibility space with buildings (since you no longer need the army related ones).
They could also add a "conquer this system" order for the fleet. Wich would also work better with the Grand Scale of this game.
It would also fix the issues of people abusing the death from orbital bombardment for free purges (currently solved via Terror Bombing).

But there is nothing to fear about such a change. If they cut a mechanic that does not work, that adds possibilities for future mechanics. It might even cut 5-20% of work off all future DLC/major reworks when they do it. And quicker/cheaper/deeper future updates is something every can get behind, I think.


*Of course they would change the Damage and Fortification values accordingly to offset that there no longer is a ground comabt phase for conquest.
 
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Cordane

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As I've said elsewhere, the main issue with trying to move these assault armies around is that the ships are actually too small and not near numerous enough. Any given developed world should be able to comfortably support armies numbering in the millions, with all of the associated mechanized equipment and aero-fighter support. How many army units would represent that? A million human-equivalent troops (infantry) might be 50-100 US Army divisions (10-20K), 25-50 corps (20-40K), or (at most) 12-13 field armies (80K min each).

How big are each of the combat ship classes shown in Stellaris? Corvettes have the smallest basic combat frame, capable of mounting just three Small weapons - I'm estimating that the space required for each of those weapons emplacements is maybe 1,000 cubic meters. Times three is about 3,000 cubic meters or just enough room to somehow cram just the bodies (no equipment, shuttles, life support, living space, etc.) of about 750 human-equivalents. If your starting point is a 15K infantry division, you would need 20 Corvettes with no space weapons (and no defenses, assuming even THAT is enough to get in the things I left out before) just to get you that small amount. Based on the doubling in size per class, Destroyers would handle it in 10 ships, Cruisers in 5, and Battleships in 2-3. Again, no fleet weapons or defenses, just 15K troops.

Take on a lightly developed world, multiply that by at least 4 for every field army you need - a very modest assault force of 5 standard armies might be 2 corps each with 2 divisions each, or 300K infantry troops. That's the equivalent of 400 Corvettes, 200 Destroyers, 100 Cruisers, or 50 Battleships, all of which are only carrying armies.

Oh, I know, you could say that you're somehow cramming in some troops into every single ship without needing to take away space combat capability. How many would that be exactly? A few hundred per Corvette and multiplied up the line? Say 250 base without having to do anything else. Now do the math to get to the numbers above. Let me know when you get to the fleet hard cap. For 5 armies.

If you can ramp up your transport ships into the same base configuration as say a Colony Ship (which has its own size inadequacy issues - one whole POP inside of 1 ship, HA!), that might be big enough to convey a single division. Multiply by 4 to get each army, and then multiply by the number of armies needed. The numbers start to get a little silly, but they're really close to what you're faced with if you want ANY minimal level of realism, even in a sci-fi/psionic/extra-dimensional universe.

If you want to work with any of the numbers I've put up above, go ahead and recalculate - please show your work.
 

Birdy123

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The handling of armies right now is really annoying. Ship modules would solve some of that, but is it enough? Right now it feels really tedious to invade, together with the way warscore works.
 
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I am Sovereign

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right now it would be good enough for me if we could merge transporters with fleets to be honest.

Well not that it is a effective strategy to intercept enemy troop transports but well yeah before the Doomstack issue isent solved I am a bit worried about that or army ship modules.

As then the only fleets that flying arround in the universe would be doomstacks which are able to do anything (planetary invasion).
 

Yenzen

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Streamlining does not always mean simplification.

I think armies should be a modifiable attachment that attaches to a fleet. We could have an army tab where we could modify these armies with the units we already know. The attachment could then be set to auto-attack when defenses are down or not. Reinforcing to the attachments are made there instead of constantly transported manually from planets.

You can have your fleet move on, you just leave the attachment on the ground. You can reinforce the attachment or the ground by transferring in orbit of planets.

On the flipside, planetary defenses should also be more customizable.

By the way, I really like the idea of each fleet having a small staff. Would provide some more strategic planning to fleets.
 
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