I'm worried bout Manpower

[TheDarkside]

one of the v1.02 patch tweaks:

- Only national provinces now give manpower income.

I found manpower already far too limiting, especially on countries like UK. Right now I only make 12 manpower per month, and I have annexed all of Italy and Germany. I can't imagine how low it will be with this patch... Right now manpower is the one thing choking my armies. I have plenty of IC, resources and lots of technology, but I can't build any units because I don't have manpower. When I get into battles my infantry lose alot fo strength unless I outnumber my opponent drastically. To reinforce these guys costs alot of manpower and I can't keep up with it anymore.

Unless there was a bug in manpower calculations? I have multiple provinces with a manpower income of 15. Yet my monthly total is 12 something. I wonder how manpower is calculated then... each province manpower is annual income?

 

[unmerged(979)]

this worries me as well. i believe manpower should increase when you take provinces. maybe a better way to deal with this would be to cut the manpower by half in occupied land. or only be able to build inferior troops there

 

[unmerged(6469)]

How can you run out of manpower especially in 1.01. I won the hole game I probably built like 10-20 new divisions max.

How many units do you build do you need 100 more divisions?

 

[The Boss]

How about only allowing your puppets to give you as minor boost to manpower?

 

[unmerged(2368)]

The problems you are running into are all problems the UK had in real life. There was a reason that Montgomery was always cautious (sometimes to the point of stupidity): Britain did not have the manpower to spare. While 12 per month does seem low, remember this equals 144 per year, or 7 new infantry divisions.

I have't played the UK so perhaps the manpower of its core provinces needs adjusting. We should NOT be gaining any manpower from conquered territory, however.

 

[unmerged(5309)]

Historically people from sub-dued nations fought on the side of the aggressor, manpower should be %50 or so of what it was originally.

 

[unmerged(2368)]

It depends on the nation. But I see what you are saying, 50% seems like a reasonable compromise.

Going back to the first post, I think the fact that you have annexed Italy and Germany explains why manpower does not need to be increased. If the United Kingdom can manage to annex Germany and Italy, presumably on its own, then perhaps you need even LOWER manpower.

I don't think anyone wants a game that follows the historical events lock step, but certain things should not happen.

 

[jacob-Lundgren]

well for on this aint EU1 or 2 so you shouldnt be planning on getting much extra manpower as few nations had much more to work with at the end then the start. also there are few examples of large numbers of volunteers from countries. especialy italians volunteering for the UK army
i cans ee reason for a small number but really you should work with what you start with plus the little extra you gain. getting 500 more points a year would make for a really silly game after a few years.
people would play as someone like mexico invade a lot of land and expect to field a 5million man army. kinda silly in my eyes
but this is just my view, and there is a reason nations tried to balance things and didnt have either 40 tank and 20 infantry divisions or 80 infantry and 2 tank divisions.

just my opinion

 

[unmerged(11746)]

The disparity in the UK manpower should be offset by the Commonwealth manpower (by , and, for, the player that is) - basically that's it as far as i can see - and i agree with it also.

"Assuming military control" over the ANZAC units highlights the importance of the commonwealth and alleviates - to some degree, the manpower ppinch of the UK itself.

Currently this doesn't work too well due to multiple issues - hopefully some of which will be resolved in 1.02.

The only "major" issue that i would like to see changed is an exception to commonwealth troops only being allowed to board their own respective national transports... if there was to be an exception surely this is the case for it? (With both historical precedence and a gameplay reason)

We need really to wait and see how dramatically, or not, the 1.02 changes affect the situation - but in all likelyhood combined-commonwealth operations will still rely on assuming military control on the whole.

It may wellw ork without any need for cross-nation transporting but - if there's one concern/fallability, i'd suggest it is probably that.


In the meantime I find the manpower limitations of the UK to be one of the better decisions....and you'll probably also now see this "manpower shortage" in more nations now the AI builds prodigious land-units (as you can in Bolts mods allready) - germany can be starved of manpower once it takes on the russians en-mass.

I cant see any strong reasons for changing it from how it stands now though.

If you're not limited, you can't be challenged.

 

[TheDarkside]

Originally posted by Hans
It depends on the nation. But I see what you are saying, 50% seems like a reasonable compromise.

Going back to the first post, I think the fact that you have annexed Italy and Germany explains why manpower does not need to be increased. If the United Kingdom can manage to annex Germany and Italy, presumably on its own, then perhaps you need even LOWER manpower.

I don't think anyone wants a game that follows the historical events lock step, but certain things should not happen.

Romania does wonders when you get them on your side

 

[unmerged(3902)]

Getting full manpower out of a conquered province was, I agree, too generous, but getting nothing out of them strikes me as swinging the pendulum too far the other way.

Historically, at least *some* of a conquered people helped out in the conqueror's war effort, either by joining/being conscriped into their military, as labor to free up somebody else to go to the front, etc.

As for people who keep running out of manpower, and others who never build units:

The AI as it currently exists is desperate not to fall behind in tech. So, if you throw all your IPs into research, so will the AI. Net result is you'll fight the whole war with your 1936 unit counts and never use your manpower.

On the other hand, if you start cranking out troops in 1936 at the expense of research, so will the AI and you'll both end up hitting the manpower limits.

 

[TheDarkside]

The reason I lost my manpower so quickly is due to battle losses, not building hoards of new units. I actually spent most of my IC on tech but the Germans are so advanced they slaughter my armies requiring me to spend lots of my manpower of reinforcing divisions.

 

[unmerged(7537)]

Originally posted by TheDarkside
The reason I lost my manpower so quickly is due to battle losses, not building hoards of new units. I actually spent most of my IC on tech but the Germans are so advanced they slaughter my armies requiring me to spend lots of my manpower of reinforcing divisions.

Do what was done historically: Send in the Commonwealth!

 

[unmerged(6652)]

Really?

"People from sub-dued countries fought on the side of the aggressor"?!?

Of 41MM Frenchmen, the Germans were only able to raise one understrength French Waffen SS Division by 1945 (excluding drafts from Alsace-Lorraine). Furthermore, most of the foreign units serving in the German military were formed in 1944, represented understrength divisions, and fought primarily as anti-partisan units. In fact, I would argue that the Germans were only able to raise little more than five foreign divisions with anything approximating first-line quality.

Furthermore, hate to be the fly in the ointment, but how many Filipino, Korean, or Chinese divisions did the Japanese raise in WW2?

(Volksdeutsche did furnish a fair amount of manpower, but then again, not too many "VolksAmericans" that the US could draw upon in Germany were it to conquer it before Italy in the game.)

I know this is a video game, but let's stay in touch with the real world. And if you are still convinced you should be able to draw men from foreign countries instead of having Johan continue to tweak the AI, have him program that you are able to draw ONE division from each occupied country that you can reinforce once a year.

 

[unmerged(6652)]

Sorry about the rant

Just reread my post. Maybe a little over the top, but I got a little fired up about the issue.

 

[Darkrenown]

Originally posted by Hans

I have't played the UK so perhaps the manpower of its core provinces needs adjusting. We should NOT be gaining any manpower from conquered territory, however.

I'm playing as the UK ATM and I'm fine for manpower so far, I might start running low around 1943 or so but thats the way it should be.

 

[Bossemanden]

From what I have seen playing Japan and United Kingdom, you cant get "overseas" manpower. That meens that when you capture Moscow or whatever, the rate your manpower increases dosnt rise. This is obviously not the case for Germany or USSR......So I think I just reported a BUG.

 

[unmerged(3902)]

Phiro:

1) The Germans did raise a Waffen SS division (Charlemagne) out of france.
2) The Germans also recruited *millions* of French laborers to work either in German war industry or in France on fortifications. Some of these were paid labor, others were conscriped. In either case, they allowed German nationals who might otherwise have been used in industrial work, to put on a uniform, pick up a gun, and go shoot at people.
3) The Germans recruited extensively in the baltic republics and the balkans.
4) The Japanese fielded a corps of Indian troops recruited, successfully, out of POWs taken at Singapore and in the Burmese campaign.

 

[unmerged(11433)]

FYI, many of the Atlanitc Wall defenses in Normandy were manned by non-German soldiers, including a few Koreans who had been captured by the Japanese and sent to fight the Russians, then captured by the Russians and sent to fight the Germans then captured by the Germans and sent to defend agains an allied invasion. What kept them fighting when in German uniforms? The German sergeant with a machine pistol pointed at their backs while they manned the machine guns looking down on Omaha Beach!

Of course, these units WERE quick to surrender, so maybe allow a non-democracy to use manpower from non-national lands, but with a permanant org reduction for ALL units built when using such manpower?

 

[unmerged(9143)]

I've just checked this.

For the UK: Jan 1, 1936: Manpower increases 12.2 per month

For the UK having annexed Germany, Czechs, Hungary and about half of Poland: Manpower increases 12.2 per month

I don't about other countries, but under 1.01, Britain sure isn't getting any foreign volunteers.

Cheers,

Dr. Charm