I'm totally hyped about the idea of a China DLC! Let me share some ideas I have for it.

[Videogames]

China advocates on this forum get enough flak without you muddying the waters with AI garbage. Shame on you!

 

[sreckom92]

I could see China added step by step.
For example, in a potential Steppe Nomads DLC, map could be expanded in the north-eastern corner, just enough to have Great Wall shown.
Everything south of the Wall would be "terra incognita".
Or maybe the entire Jin Dynasty area from this map could be added:

I dunno...
Still not sure if it would be smart to have China in the game.
But if it gets added, maybe it would be wisest to do it step by step.

 

[Videogames]

The Jin took power in the 1120s, so in CK3's start dates you'd just be cutting the Tang or Song in half that way. And if you're including northern China, where the capitals were located at the time, also including the south is not a particularly difficult ask.

One part where you're right is that steppe nomads should be added into the game first - their presence will make parts of Europe and the Middle East play better, and sufficiently dangerous steppe nomads is the #1 thing that will prevent China from being a too-powerful blob.

 

[Torredebelem]

The game does not need to expand its already huge "size" but instead its inches thin "depth".

 

[FreeSoc]

I'd rather have Byzantium play interestingly and uniquely (it's even a good trial run for the idea of unlanded courtiers that really matter and wield significant power), to say nothing of the steppes, the Islamic world, eastern Europe and India, before we even think about China

 

[NoUsernamesHere]

I could see China added step by step.

potential Steppe Nomads DLC

It would be wisest to do it step by step.

You sly dog, I see you.

 

[Silens]

I'd love to see China, and I know we will at some point. However, it won't work unless some very fundamental systems are implemented:

• Trade, specifically the Silk Road (with silk and spices as trade resources)
• Nomads and Steppes, because the constant threat played a huge role for China's stability and politics
• Imperial Government, since it would physically hurt me to see Western European feudalism in China

Then, and only then, would China make sense. Otherwise we'd just have more of the same, and that would be a big injustice here.

 

[Atossa]

China would be neat. But existing areas are already so shallow that adding China, a fairly unique area, into the current shallow framework would really not meaningfully improve the game.

Also, this should not be prioritized until the bordering regions have been fleshed out. Like, the Silk Road and Tibet.

 

[FishieFan]

I know ChatGPT suggested this, but this is the one key feature that will make or break a potential Far East DLC. Korea and Japan might be small enough to get away with implementing ahistorical Frankish feudalism however a feudal China blob would make the game extremely unfun. Feudalism would only be a good representation of China if CK3 was set during the Zhou dynasty during the time of Imperator: Rome. There needs to be a way to portray powerful court officials who didn't own large feudal princedoms. The goal of a Chinese family could be to gain enough power as a civil official to force an abdication to yourself or go the military route of massing enough forces as a commander to overthrow the current dynasty militarily.

"chinese imperial court" is just court, its what royal court should have expanded into but didnt.

 

[Truenorth14]

Personally I think China could come in 2 phases

Phase 1: China returns as an offmap power, maybe have a blurry map of china in the east that changes with dynasties and other things. This is primarily to keep ck3 playable for those with lower end PC's or dont really care about China. It can add parts of SE asia and the periphery areas of China alongside opportunities for it to expand.

Phase 2: add more depth and make china playable. This DLC would focus solely on the chinese heartland. Focussing on the Chinese imperial form of government and other depth China needs.

 

[Ksiendzu]

I actually play with Rajas of Asia mod. I don't have a gaming PC, but I don't feel the game slowing down significantly. Adding the rest of Asia to the game is possible

Mod: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2509174436

 

[Riaman98]

I understand, the original ideas might not have been super clear, but I tried my best to describe in a way how I would like this DLC implemented. Your suggestion of making the Imperial Reform DLC with culture or region-specific reforms is really cool too. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me!

japan should have a pope like leige as emperor and and shogun as real king title.

 

[EasternTiger]

japan should have a pope like leige as emperor and and shogun as real king title.

The shogunate only began in the late 12th century, and before then it was just a regular military title.

 

[EasternTiger]

I actually play with Rajas of Asia mod. I don't have a gaming PC, but I don't feel the game slowing down significantly. Adding the rest of Asia to the game is possible

Mod: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2509174436

Adding the extra provinces and characters is not the main problem people have with adding China. It's whether if adding China will add a new gameplay style centered around Imperial bureaucracy or if its added in a shallow way and just being a big feudal blob. As others have mentioned, the current game has a lot of width but not depth, adding a feudal Chinese blob would just increase the width of the game and not be very interesting. Does the mod add any interesting new mechanics for China?

 

[Riaman98]

The shogunate only began in the late 12th century, and before then it was just a regular military title.

emperor still would be like pope, to this age Japanese emperors are direct like of their founder and some Shinto goddess and viewed as spiritual head of Shintoism.

 

[Ksiendzu]

Does the mod add any interesting new mechanics for China?

Yes. I played as Guiyi ruler and it was fun. I used also RICE mod. I think it's worth a try. I also hope official China will be much better.

 

[EleMarc]

I could see China added step by step.
For example, in a potential Steppe Nomads DLC, map could be expanded in the north-eastern corner, just enough to have Great Wall shown.
Everything south of the Wall would be "terra incognita".
Or maybe the entire Jin Dynasty area from this map could be added:
View attachment 956501

I dunno...
Still not sure if it would be smart to have China in the game.
But if it gets added, maybe it would be wisest to do it step by step.

Oh yeah, it's not smart indeed, but for a different reason. Shame of Jin-Kang, imagine the backlash of such event.

For the context, a overly "patriotic" incident happened months ago due to a pseudo-historical movie screened about Song General Yue Fei. The news citing a man ran into a temple, vandalizing the statue of Song's prime minister's at that time for his minor role in executing the successful Song's general Yue Fei after watching the movie, while shouting "give me back my mountain and river" or better translated as return my empire.

The event lead to Yue Fei's successful resistance against Jin dynasty and his untimely death is perhaps the most shameful event in China's history (or at least according to China's general guidelines of thoughts). Emperor Jing and Emperor Kang were captured alongside with their courtiers. Tens of thousands of courtiers and citizens including 2 emperors, 2 empresses, dozens of princes and princesses were treated as cattle, both literally and figuratively. Empress Jing, in her 30s allegedly killed herself after suffering humiliation beyond imagination while her husband watching it happened before his eyes. The other empress was lucky, she was sent to Jin's royal brothel and survived for a long time before a huge ransom paid by Song. Only one-third of the captured survived the trip from northern Song's capital to Jin's capital. The women were sold into brothels and men into slavery if their family couldn't afford the ransom. Give me grand tours of humiliation.

I would love to see historical accuracy of many events but I'm not sure how deep Paradox is willing to dig into. Considering the current status of the game, I would say not reenacting historical events in a hard-coded way, provide only the bare minimum structure of the game, the map, the characters, would be more than enough to keep the game acceptable by many.

 

[Videogames]

emperor still would be like pope, to this age Japanese emperors are direct like of their founder and some Shinto goddess and viewed as spiritual head of Shintoism.

Being like a pope in-game would be bad because as you say, hereditary succession was very important for the Japanese imperial line. Intermarriage with the imperial family was also important for the Fujiwara regents. In-game. popes and other theocratic titles don't get inherited and instead just pop someone new into the position, who may have been generated on the spot.

The other problem with making the Japanese emperor a Shinto spiritual head is that during the CK3 timeline, Shinto was somewhat eclipsed and emperors' religious roles and interests were oriented around Buddhism. Many of them retired from the throne and went on to ordain as monks.

 

[Riaman98]

Being like a pope in-game would be bad because as you say, hereditary succession was very important for the Japanese imperial line. Intermarriage with the imperial family was also important for the Fujiwara regents. In-game. popes and other theocratic titles don't get inherited and instead just pop someone new into the position, who may have been generated on the spot.

The other problem with making the Japanese emperor a Shinto spiritual head is that during the CK3 timeline, Shinto was somewhat eclipsed and emperors' religious roles and interests were oriented around Buddhism. Many of them retired from the throne and went on to ordain as monks.

so a mixture of pope and caliph, thats why it would need a complete new mechanic

 

[Darumaka]

Before Paradox goes adding new regions, they should flesh out the ones we already got. For an example just look at the royal courts, which had a whole DLC dedicated to them yet is so limited in scope. How many art styles are there for them, 4 or 5? Indian, Middle Eastern, West European, and Mediterranean (forgot if Iberia/Scandinavia got unique ones with their DLCs).

Why would Paradox expand the steppes into Mongolia and give Tibet the province density of the HRE yet not give them their own court art? What about Sahel courts vs Horn of Africa courts? Byzantine courts? Burmese? Having the entirety of the Muslim world from the Atlantic coast of Morocco to the borders of India and Central Asia have one homogeneous art-style simply kills the fun of the game.

This is not an issue exclusive to their extremely lackluster Royal Court DLC but one that plagues the entire game. Please don't add even more regions to the map before you properly make playing the regions we already have distinct in feel and aesthetic. At least CK2 changed the UI according to your religion and/or government type. CK3 can't even do that.