I'm not sure profesionalism is going to work as intended...

[BaronNoir]

From what I gather, at max PROF, you army have powerful bonus, at low PROF you recruit mercenary faster and they are cheaper

Except that in most games, manpower is way more precious than ducats, if only because you can stockpile one to infinite. While this not going to be a real problem against the AI, isn't this going to lead to swarming the full prof armies by cheap full non-prof ones ?

 

[Badesumofu]

At this point it's hard to see how going professional is going to be worth it for WC play. It could make for an interesting challenge to do a 'professional army WC'. The problem is I can sustain the income to run stacks of 40/0/40 all mercs towards the end-game because there are lots of ways to build up huge quantities of ducats. There aren't so many ways to get a huge income of manpower.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

At this point it's hard to see how going professional is going to be worth it for WC play. It could make for an interesting challenge to do a 'professional army WC'. The problem is I can sustain the income to run stacks of 40/0/40 all mercs towards the end-game because there are lots of ways to build up huge quantities of ducats. There aren't so many ways to get a huge income of manpower.

In my golden horde 1-tag I didn't use mercs other than 1st two wars vs Muscovy and after going revolutionary, and that wasn't well optimized. I'm betting you can do it with defensive + quantity with one -attrition policy and a little micro. I don't see it competing with mercs for finish time.

 

[Badesumofu]

In my golden horde 1-tag I didn't use mercs other than 1st two wars vs Muscovy and after going revolutionary, and that wasn't well optimized. I'm betting you can do it with defensive + quantity with one -attrition policy and a little micro. I don't see it competing with mercs for finish time.

Interesting. I just finished a France one-tag and thought I'd give Mongolia a try for something different. I'm just discovering how fun and strong hordes are. The Estate interactions give you a heap of manpower.

I've done a no-loans WC and a no-coalition WC (that second one is more the norm now that I've really learned to manage AE) so a no mercs or no mercs without paying for the professionalism hit WC is appealing to me.

 

[Bibor]

From what I gather, at max PROF, you army have powerful bonus, at low PROF you recruit mercenary faster and they are cheaper Except that in most games, manpower is way more precious than ducats, if only because you can stockpile one to infinite. While this not going to be a real problem against the AI, isn't this going to lead to swarming the full prof armies by cheap full non-prof ones ?

You're not wrong, but you're not right either. Nothing prevents you from utilizing both regular and mercenary armies. It just pays more to focus on one of the two.

If your are on a WC, most of your losses will probably come from attrition, where army professionalism does you little good, since you won't have enough mil points to plant a supply depot that often.

Army professionalism is a boon for those who can/want to fight battles and siege down a few forts every 10 years (the full manpower cycle).

 

[bbqftw]

Currently you need two sources of +available mercenaries to fully leverage your FL for merc spam.

With quantity taking a relative nerf due to the weak state of religious its an awkward pick and that's typically your 2nd available merc source. Running zero prof + slacken will be pretty dominant.

I mean you could maybe get away from rapid consolidation of mercs (which is what really kills your professionalism ) if you used defensive and quantity but really who has the slots to run 2 military groups that early? Humanist, influence, adm, diplomatic, and situationally exploration all take higher precedence.

 

[$ilent_$trider]

Maybe professionalism will increase as the game advances through the ages, you know, how it happened historically.
I mean, bonus aside from getting higher levels of army professionalism, they are worth it for the new abilities to get professionalism at least 20 (supply depot) or even the 40 level (refill garrison), of course, given enough time (assuming you never recruit mercenaries and never destroy mil buildings you can get to 100 where the reserves take less morale damage.
I don't know, I really think professionalism is going to make a difference when the evangelical league starts.

 

[hashinshin]

NEED. MORE. NON. MERC. MONEY. SINKS.

Also colonies are stupid OP in the current build.

 

[DominusNovus]

NEED. MORE. NON. MERC. MONEY. SINKS.

Also colonies are stupid OP in the current build.

CoC is going to be chock full of money sinks. Drilling and training advisors will be expensive, thats for sure. And we'll all want to do it as often as possible, whether or not its necessarily optimal, which only playing will tell.

 

[Foefaller]

From what I gather, at max PROF, you army have powerful bonus, at low PROF you recruit mercenary faster and they are cheaper

Except that in most games, manpower is way more precious than ducats, if only because you can stockpile one to infinite. While this not going to be a real problem against the AI, isn't this going to lead to swarming the full prof armies by cheap full non-prof ones ?

Actually, it's slightly worse; it's not cheaper and faster to recruit mercs, it's cheaper and more available mercs.

Still, I don't want to make any judgments until we at least see the patch notes. Particularly, I want to see what, if any ideas and government types have modifiers related to Professionalism, and whether there will be any changes to Admin or anything else beyond Professionalism and Drilling that would make all-merc WC no longer the universally best way to go.

 

[Dracolithfiend]

They need to dramatically reduce availability of mercenaries.

 

[hashinshin]

They need to dramatically reduce availability of mercenaries.

There needs to be more done with money than merc spam.

Late game should involve other rapid money sinks than mercs. What can you do late game with your infinite and piling up money other than just drop 300 mercs? Buying cannon balls, paying for long distance supplies, ANYTHING.