I'm NOT on a boat!! Navy/Naval/Transport [MEGA-THREAD]

I'm NOT on a boat!! Navy/Naval/Transport [MEGA-THREAD]

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I don't know if it has been brought up, but a major gameplay issue right now in regards to navy is when you try to have your capital be on an island, like Sardinia. You have to stock up a lot of gold before you go to war, as you'll be bouncing back and forth, back and forth in order to siege mainland nations due to needing to chase down the troops they send to your island, then going back to siege more stuff before going back to fight their troops, and so on. Could easily spend >70% of your money in the war just in hiring the boats and it kinda just seems like you'd make your own transport fleet at that point.
 
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Bankipriel

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I don't know if it has been brought up, but a major gameplay issue right now in regards to navy is when you try to have your capital be on an island, like Sardinia. You have to stock up a lot of gold before you go to war, as you'll be bouncing back and forth, back and forth in order to siege mainland nations due to needing to chase down the troops they send to your island, then going back to siege more stuff before going back to fight their troops, and so on. Could easily spend >70% of your money in the war just in hiring the boats and it kinda just seems like you'd make your own transport fleet at that point.
It might be worth leaving 1/2 your troops there and building Outposts where you can. Anyone attacking will have 30+ penalty to their battle advantage. You should be able to clean up even outnumbered 2:1 as long as your troops are elite, especially w/ archer retinues, which will probably stack wipe them in the first phase with 30+ advantage. And again, I'm not familiar w/ Sardinia's geography, but if you can build outposts, you would be able to even more decisively demolish anyone attacking you from sea.

Or, if you don't have the manpower to split your forces, and are spending hundreds of gold every war on embarkation, it would be a much better use of gold to just hire some elite mercenaries w/ archers and leave them on guard duty.
 
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It might be worth leaving 1/2 your troops there and building Outposts where you can. Anyone attacking will have 30+ penalty to their battle advantage. You should be able to clean up even outnumbered 2:1 as long as your troops are elite, especially w/ archer retinues, which will probably stack wipe them in the first phase with 30+ advantage. And again, I'm not familiar w/ Sardinia's geography, but if you can build outposts, you would be able to even more decisively demolish anyone attacking you from sea.

Or, if you don't have the manpower to split your forces, and are spending hundreds of gold every war on embarkation, it would be a much better use of gold to just hire some elite mercenaries w/ archers and leave them on guard duty.
Coastline is all grasslands and hills, with the mountains only being on a couple interior baronies. There's a couple tiles where Hill Forts might be able to be made, but I think there's only 3 of 'em on the coastline and not all of them have castles. So best I could do is the Walls & Towers which need to be Level 5 before I get a defender advantage of +4, and that doesn't increase further.
 

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Coastline is all grasslands and hills, with the mountains only being on a couple interior baronies. There's a couple tiles where Hill Forts might be able to be made, but I think there's only 3 of 'em on the coastline and not all of them have castles. So best I could do is the Walls & Towers which need to be Level 5 before I get a defender advantage of +4, and that doesn't increase further.
Ah, too bad. Sorry for the bum advice. I didn't mean to be patronizing, so I apologize if I was suggesting something you already ruled out. It's just that a lot of coastline in England is swamps and woodlands, so the Outposts have been super helpful in crushing crusader troops when the land on my shores. Good luck!
 

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especially w/ archer retinues, which will probably stack wipe them in the first phase with 30+ advantage.
That's CK2, eh? AFAIK there is no skirmish phase in CK3, but perhaps I missed something?
 
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That's CK2, eh? AFAIK there is no skirmish phase in CK3, but perhaps I missed something?
You missed something.

When combat beings, you'll notice a bow and arrow icon in the middle bottom of the combat pop-up window. You'll need to click on the crossed swords icon over the fighting armies to bring up this window.

If you win the combat before the bow & arrow turns into a sword & shield, the entire enemy army is destroyed---no survivors. This is what people are talking about here on the forums when they say "stack wiped". This is also why there are numerous threads about how OP archer retinues are right now when combined with large demesne upgrade buildings and several archer duchy buildings. A full set of properly upgraded archer retinues (6K+) will regularly outperform similarly upgraded heavy infantry or cavalry, because they will stack wipe your opponents, saving you from playing wack-a-mole all over your realm as 6 armies shattered retreat in different directions.

Even early in 867 starts, archer heavy retinues can often stack wipe enemy armies if you can engage them while they suffer the -30 advantage from disembarking.
 
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You missed something.

When combat beings, you'll notice a bow and arrow icon in the middle bottom of the combat pop-up window. You'll need to click on the crossed swords icon over the fighting armies to bring up this window.

If you win the combat before the bow & arrow turns into a sword & shield, the entire enemy army is destroyed---no survivors. This is what people are talking about here on the forums when they say "stack wiped". This is also why there are numerous threads about how OP archer retinues are right now when combined with large demesne upgrade buildings and several archer duchy buildings. A full set of properly upgraded archer retinues (6K+) will regularly outperform similarly upgraded heavy infantry or cavalry, because they will stack wipe your opponents, saving you from playing wack-a-mole all over your realm as 6 armies shattered retreat in different directions.

Even early in 867 starts, archer heavy retinues can often stack wipe enemy armies if you can engage them while they suffer the -30 advantage from disembarking.
Thanks for the reply. :)

The early phase, yeah. But I haven't seen any indication that it favors archers especially. In fact, I've successfully stackwiped the AI countless times with barely any archers in my army. From what I can tell archers don't favor the early phase any more than other troop types.
 
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I like the new system because at that time, and also during the Invincible Armada, most of kings hadn't a standing fleet, they just rented and converted private ships.
 
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I like paying for embarkment more then fleet system from CK2.

But i think it would be great if there would be some building (ports) and perks that reduce cost of embarking, so you could focus on that if you capital is on island or you expect to go back and forth when fighting wars.
 
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What would be great, is if they removed drive-able ships all together. Moving troops over water should be similar to HoI4.

Move an army to a coastal barony/town/temple that has a harbor (either your own, an allies, or a neutral territory). Prepare to embark your troops and select the harbor they are leaving from and the destination you want them to go. Game will calculate how long it would take to travel there.
Next, pay gold to hire ships based on the size of troops you are sending (more troops = more ships needed) - get a big discount if leaving your own harbor, get a minor discount if leaving an allies harbor, get no discount if leaving neutral harbor.
Next, troops "disappear" for the time frame of the journey and a 3D model of ship that we cannot change the course of shows us the progress of the journey.
Along the way, add some events! Pirates, encounters in ports along the way, storms...
 
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Thanks for the reply. :)

The early phase, yeah. But I haven't seen any indication that it favors archers especially. In fact, I've successfully stackwiped the AI countless times with barely any archers in my army. From what I can tell archers don't favor the early phase any more than other troop types.
Correct. However, archer duchy buildings simply have the highest bonus to damage by a significant margin (especially if stacked across multiple duchies), meaning a fully upgraded archer retinue (especially once you get crossbows) will outperform other MAA during Phase 1, where a stack wipe can occur. Though, I am by no means familiar with every cultural retinue, so I'm sure there are exceptions, and I've also read that Elephant buildings make cavalry the best if you have access to jungle & the relevant building, but I haven't taken at look at them yet myself, so I'm not exactly sure how they compare.
 
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Correct. However, archer duchy buildings simply have the highest bonus to damage by a significant margin (especially if stacked across multiple duchies), meaning a fully upgraded archer retinue (especially once you get crossbows) will outperform other MAA during Phase 1, where a stack wipe can occur. Though, I am by no means familiar with every cultural retinue, so I'm sure there are exceptions, and I've also read that Elephant buildings make cavalry the best if you have access to jungle & the relevant building, but I haven't taken at look at them yet myself, so I'm not exactly sure how they compare.
Makes sense, thanks! I'm gonna have to look into elephant buildings now. :)
 

Rubidium

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The main advantage light cavalry have over archers is that most of the buildings that give them bonuses also provide gold revenue (hunting lodges/camelries/etc.), so they provide economic benefits as well. It's an open question whether the extra gold makes up for the slight decrease in lethality.

And yes, elephants are quite interesting in their own right (although note that like all HC they are reduced in size compared to other MAAs, so it's not a straightforward math calculation as to which is better).
 

Vlad123

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Regarding all the "I respectfully disagree" I think I have them, almost in every post, because they are one of the most ferocious, enemies of the Ck3 system of ships. But I'm sorry, this time paradox has taken an absurd blunder and it is from Hoi4 that it takes "absurd blunders". He basically makes mistakes that I would expect from an inexperienced indie, not from an established company for YEARS! That is, he often chooses the way of simplifying the game, making mistakes in 99.99% of cases! But instead of seeing your backyard, please don't be children! Really think about the game, about its good! In the thread, they told you that you could select all ships by holding alt and dragging like ground soldiers. PROBLEM SOLVED! If three clicks are micromangments for the new paradox users, they better withdraw the Victoria 3 announcement! I don't want to spoil that too!
 
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So while I initially really liked the sound of this system (and I still like the concept) the AI is just unable to handle it. It leads to so many stupid, nonsensical things that I don't see them fixing without either reverting back to the old system, or revamping this new system somehow. Some examples of stupid nonsense I've experience is:

-French troops chasing my raiders across the sea to Britain to defeat my raiders who had only raided a single French holding (by accident BTW) before fleeing to avoid the French army to a place that I *thought* were safe.

-The pope and his men disembarked in neutral Syria instead of landing in Jerusalem, which was the crusade goal, and then proceeded to march through Syria, down through Iraq, embark on the Persian gulf, sail around Arabia up the red sea and then finally land in Negev (only to be immediately crushed). I stopped trying to participate in this crusade after than, but kept an eye on them. The Crusaders kept going around in a circle. They'd get crushed at Negev, flee northwards, and then walk down to the Persian gulf and sailed around *again!*

-Separatist rebels always immediately disembark and sail to my most distant provinces instead of sieging the places they spawned in. This also applies to vassal rebels, who almost never will go for your capital, but instead always sail to your most distant and least important counties, as opposed to walking down to my capital just a few holdings south of the bulk of their forces.

edit: I elaborated a bit and fixed grammar since I was rather upset at the game when I first threw this together.
 
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Vlad123

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So while I initially really liked the sound of this system (and I still like the concept) the AI is just unable to handle it. It leads to so many stupid, nonsensical things that I don't see them fixing without either reverting back to the old system, or revamping this new system somehow. Some examples of stupid nonsense I've experience is:

-French troops chasing my raiders across the sea to Britain to defeat my raiders who raided a single holding there.

-The pope and his men disembarked in neutral Syria instead of landing in Jerusalem, and then marching through Syria, down through Iraq, disembark on the Persian gulf, sailed around Arabia up the red sea and then finally landing in Negev (only to be immediately crushed.

-Separatist rebels always immediately disembark and sail to my most distant provinces instead of sieging the places the spawned in. This also applies to vassal rebels, who almost never will go for your capital, but instead always sail to your most distant and least important counties. (as opposed to walking down to my capital just a few holdings south of the bulk of their forces.
Solution: go back to the old system that had fewer problems and therefore easier to solve.
 
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Rubidium

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Solution: go back to the old system that had fewer problems and therefore easier to solve.
Or they could fix the AI (basically just make it weigh water routes as less desirable than land routes due to the cost penalty would fix 90% of the problems), rather than attempt to retrofit a different system onto the current game (which is not remotely set up to handle it, in terms of how buildings work, the AI works, or troops work).

You can't just say "go back to the CK2 system" (which, again, had its own massive problems that were never really solved, as has been discussed ad nauseum over the 36 pages that this thread has somehow survived), without taking into account that for all practical purposes "going back" would involve completely rewriting a huge portion of how the game currently works.
 
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Vlad123

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Even if it does fix, I'm sorry, but it would still be horrible for other reasons! If I have CK3, I want Ck3, not graphically improved Ck1! Paradox has abandoned the "transformation into boats" system, the description of cog on eu4, even makes fun of the games that transform men into boats! So I want an upgrade! Ck2's looting system is awesome, ck3's is HORRIBLE! But all those who want the CK1 system are often Lazy players! Who do not want to make 3 clicks or new players who want "ready meals"!
 
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Even if it does fix, I'm sorry, but it would still be horrible for other reasons! If I have CK3, I want Ck3, not graphically improved Ck1! Paradox has abandoned the "transformation into boats" system, the description of cog on eu4, even makes fun of the games that transform men into boats! So I want an upgrade! Ck2's looting system is awesome, ck3's is HORRIBLE! But all those who want the CK1 system are often Lazy players! Who do not want to make 3 clicks or new players who want "ready meals"!
You really sound like a troll. I really hope that you're not a troll. I will feel bad if you're actually not a troll
 
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I think it's pretty clear that the current naval system is just a placeholder for a future DLC. I have a hard time even calling what we have now a "system" since its basically just a fee you pay to walk your army onto the ocean and off to wherever the destination is.
 
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