Im doing something terribly wrong!

[Oreg Anton]

Hey there! After I fucked my enemy completely over in Cadet mode I started a new game on the next difficulty, "Ensign".

I was trying to explore as fast as possible in different directions to secure room where I can build myself up comfortably as soon as the borders are set. Soon I came across a faction called "Varelviv Raiders" that commanded several armies worth of 10-15k power in just the next 2 systems. They were friendly as long as I sent them resources though so it was fine with me. Soon after I met my first real neighbor, a birdperson, the "Haspalv Guardians". Their borders included merely 7 systems where I was at around 30 already, yet every aspect of theirs was labeled "overwhelming". Fine I still thought and built up my defenses on our border, an upgraded starbase with 6 defense platforms, just in case they got crazy and indeed they shortly did, just declared war on me as soon as I colonized my 2nd planet. They overran me in about 2 seconds at normal speed, with a force 75k worth of military power.

!?

The next weird thing was that they just appeared right inside my empire the second they declared war, without having a direct connection to it, I screened that.. maybe the picture also gives some further informations of what I did wrong to such an extend.

https://i.imgur.com/YPz2E42.jpg

Now I am aware that Im still a newbee with a ton to learn in this game.. I also want to state that I love it and I dont want you guys to write me a novel so I get better, I like learning games like this on my own and so far never had any problems with any. Yet in this case I really wouldnt know what I'd do so different the next time, and it is hard to start the next game knowing you either destroy the enemy without any problems or, on the next difficulty, get hopelessly destroyed yourself because even if Id perfect my strategy (better use of Edicts, better use of Pops, more intelligent research and so on) that is just a seemingly impossible mountain to climb to meet this kind of force so early in the game. It has to be some particular thing I completely failed on, maybe even in the starting settings or something! What could it be?

If you need any more information Im happy to answer!
So far

 

[AlknicTeos]

there are fallen empires and other advanced civs already at start .... I always disable them

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

The first guys sound like Marauders from the Apocalypse expansion (EDIT: and if so, you did exactly the right thing in paying them tribute until such time in the future you are strong enough to fight them), but the second guys are DEFINITELY a fallen empire.

Since they are labeled guardians, it is clear that we are talking about a spiritualist fallen empire (holy guardians) and I'm willing to bet that you offended them greatly by colonizing a Gaia world, causing them to invade.

Fallen empires start out with a crushing tech superiority that they retain for many, many, decades of in-game time, but they don't expand and they only minimally interact with the rest of the galaxy (until the time of their awakening, which is long after start), but they all have red lines that, if crossed, will cause them to instantly declare war. If you don't cross their red lines you can pretty much ignore them, though they may very occasionally ask you for a small favour or give you gifts. (Foreign aid. )

Their ability to jump directly into the centre of your realm is due to them being equipped with advanced PSI jump drives that aren't available to you until much later in the game.

EDIT: If you look at that Gaia world again it should show an icon in the planet view telling you that the fallen empire considers this to be a holy world and warning you not to touch it.

EDIT2: I see that you are advised above to disable fallen empires. I wouldn't do so, were I you. They add some interesting mechanics to the game as well as giving you a mid-to-late game challenge if you are planning to go aconquering. They are also nice in that having one on your flank gives you a region than none of the normal AIs are going to invade through. The only thing that is required, really, is for you to read what they tell you so know what will offend them and what will not. Alternatively you can read the exact details about their behaviour in the wiki if you want to be spoiled.

 

[Dan_Daniel2000]

You colonized a holy planet of the Fallen empire, didnt you? No worries, just dont do that, and the FE wont harm you.

 

[Evangeline]

It would be helpful if you could link details about the empire. They are probably a fallen empire, meaning that they are very ancient and very powerful - some are friendly, some are not.

If they attacked right after you colonized, perhaps you colonized a gaia world that was sacred to them? Also, this doesn't have to be game over: you could just surrender and accept their victory in this war and see what happens. You may lose your colony, or you may become their vassal or something. In the latter case, you might be able to become strong enough to throw off your new overlord and declare independence in the mid/late game.

 

[I_am_Nemo]

So, neither of those is a regular empire. The first one is Marauders. You basically have them figured out; pay them off and stay out of their space, and they'll chill. At least for the first 100 years or so. . .

The second one is a Fallen Empire. Super old, super advanced civilization that's spawned like that at game start. They have all the techs researched, economy that's overwhelmingly powerful, etc. Each of the FEs has a certain personality and certain things that will annoy them, and when annoyed, they respond in the fashion you saw -- with overwhelming force. In this specific instance, the planet you colonized was likely a Gaia planet with a special name. The Spiritualist FE has 3 "Holy Worlds" near its borders; it hasn't colonized them, and it doesn't want anyone else to do so either. If you want to salvage this game, you should be able to accept the FE's war demands, which should basically be removing yourself from the planet, and they'll leave you alone from that point.

As far as their movement -- there's a late game technology called "jump drives" which allows people to move directly from one system to another, ignoring normal hyperlane travel. The FE obviously has this at the start.

 

[Oreg Anton]

Yes indeed they warned me the moment I colonized, claiming that it was in their territory or something of that sort, but it was so far off their systems that I didnt see the reasoning in that. Also it was the closest habitable planet near my home station and since in the options I chose 2 guaranteed habitable worlds I took it for granted that colonizing this one should be completely fair. I will adjust my next empire to be more adaptive to new worlds and probably turny off these overpowered neighbors. Because since I was so inferior (and appearently I was supposed to be) it is not very likely to befriend those guys and potentially set them up against a rival, is it? What could I possibly offer them? As far as I can see the only thing they were good for is restricting me... in the end they just blocked a path on my way to the next enemy I could rival or trade with and kicked me in the nuts for colonizing a planet in my own borders.

Now thank you all so much for these plenty of informative, nice and incredibly quick answers!! This seems to be an amazing community, Im ancious to join as soon as I get a clue of this game.

Greetings

 

[Evangeline]

I would recommend disabling advanced starts as a beginner (only useful for people already playing on max difficulty who want even more challenge) but leaving 1-2 fallen empires in the game. They won't bother you if you don't annoy them and eventually, they will "reawaken" and become very interesting in the late game. There are also different kinds, e.g. some who are friendly who might give you a nice present, or horrible terrifying swarms who might eat your enemies first when they awaken. I think fallen empires add flavor.

 

[Alblaka]

Note that these are not overpowered weird enemies, they're just something you would call natural hazards.
You can have up to 5 (usually 3ish) Fallen Empires, each with is obscenely powerful, but will not act whatsoever until you annoy them (and even them their war demand is usually minor like giving back a system or being humiliates) or until the very late game. At which point they become the only actual threat to a late-game player empire. Disabling means you will play in a sandbox with no real threat until the super-late crisis.

Marauders are, similar, not a real enemy, but a NPC faction of basically overpowered raiders, that will however only demand some resources periodically, or go ahead and raid a single colony of yours.

To befriend other empires, the easiest way to do it is to gurantuee them. This causes their trust of you to raise slowly and is the fastest way of dismissing an AI empires unfriendly attitude. From that point, it's usually smart rivalry choices, NAP->DP->whatever else you want from them.

 

[I_am_Nemo]

Also it was the closest habitable planet near my home station and since in the options I chose 2 guaranteed habitable worlds I took it for granted that colonizing this one should be completely fair.

Just to be clear, this wasn't one of your two guaranteed worlds. Those will be of your primary planet type (same as your HW), while the FE's world's are Gaia type. It's just bad luck for you that you spawned right next to them and decided to colonize a Holy World.

As far as I can see the only thing they were good for is restricting me... in the end they just blocked a path on my way to the next enemy I could rival or trade with and kicked me in the nuts for colonizing a planet in my own borders.

The point of FE's is that it's kind of a Sci Fi trope that new civilizations meet older, far more advanced civilizations when first expanding into space -- and that the newly spacefaring civilizations have to flex their plans a bit to accommodate the sometimes capricious demands of the elder races. You can certainly turn them off, but in terms of both gameplay and storytelling, they do have a lot to offer.

 

[Peter34]

there are fallen empires and other advanced civs already at start .... I always disable them

I don’t disable Fallen Empires. They add a lot to the galactic landscape. But I really dislike Advanced Start AI empires! Those I disable. I encourage everyone to disable them.

 

[Serenity84]

As said Fallen Empires offer some interesting things in the long term. Late game you can take them down and own their super advanced worlds. They also don't always spawn directly next to you.

They have different personalities. Only two have them have any territorial concerns (xenophobes and spiritualists). The xenophile FE will sometimes gift you things if you indulge them a bit. The Ancient Caretaker machine FE also has some cool interactions

 

[Peter34]

It would be helpful if you could link details about the empire. They are probably a fallen empire, meaning that they are very ancient and very powerful - some are friendly, some are not.

If they attacked right after you colonized, perhaps you colonized a gaia world that was sacred to them? Also, this doesn't have to be game over: you could just surrender and accept their victory in this war and see what happens. You may lose your colony, or you may become their vassal or something. In the latter case, you might be able to become strong enough to throw off your new overlord and declare independence in the mid/late game.

Indeed! If a Fallen Empire declares war on you, early or mid game, the best thing you can do is to immediately bend over. Then under their overlordship, build up your economy and military strength as best you can, waiting until you’re ready to rebel against them.

Trying to fight the war just gets parts of your empire wrecked, until you’re forced to surrender after a few years anyway. If you surrender right away, your stuff stays intact.

 

[Felidae]

But really dislike Advanced Start AI empires! Those I disable. I encourage everyone to disable them.

Eh, I don't have it on either, but no skin off my teeth if some advanced players like that. More power to them.

But yeah, like others have said, keep the Fallen Empires, they're cool. Just don't settle the Holy Guardian's Gaia worlds, and keep one empty system between your systems and those of the Isolationists, and it's all good. Late game they have some super extra mega special techs and worlds you can take off them, and in the early to mid game you might just get lucky with some nice gifts from them. Including a small fleet of their very advanced escorts...

 

[Mastikator]

Indeed! If a Fallen Empire declares war on you, early or mid game, the best thing you can do is to immediately bend over. Then under their overlordship, build up your economy and military strength as best you can, waiting until you’re ready to rebel against them.

Trying to fight the war just gets parts of your empire wrecked, until you’re forced to surrender after a few years anyway. If you surrender right away, your stuff stays intact.

When a fallen empire declares war on you it only ever uses humiliate as a CB, when and if you surrender they will assassinate your ruler.


@Oreg Anton they did warn you not to colonize the planet. Getting declared on is working as intended, your only choice is to surrender immediately and don't colonize holy worlds. They're an ancient and ominous empire, instead of achieving godhood they stagnated and fell into a deep slumber and what you see now, that 75k fleet that appeared out of nowhere is all that remained since their glory days.

 

[I_am_Nemo]

I don’t disable Fallen Empires. They add a lot to the galactic landscape. But I really dislike Advanced Start AI empires! Those I disable. I encourage everyone to disable them.

I like Advanced Starts in that they create a bit of an uneven playing field among the AI, making it slightly more likely one of the AIs will become an expansionist menace, rather then all of them just grabbing their chunk of turf and sitting there.

But if you're already playing a difficulty setting that's challenging, getting an advanced start Purifier, etc. nearby can definitely ruin your day, so I understand why you'd disable them.